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Where is penalty for hard facecamp?
Can smb describe how exactly penalty for FC works? I thought killer should got less points, if he is staying 1m from hook (literally hard facecamp).
But 28 900 points is not penalty!!! It is ridiculous.
In this game, killer face camped all of us. Sometimes more than 30seconds. So this mean about 6x 20 sec. So 2 minutes of facecamping? And still got 28 900?
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The penalty for facecamping is the other survivors get all of the gens done.
You didn't do any gens while he was facecamping did you?
You gave him those points.
Facecamping is usually a guaranteed 2K or even 1K if the other survivors do all the gens.
I had a Deathslinger facecamp not too long ago, the rest of us escaped, and the killer got 10k BP. I mean so did the rest of us because no one else got chase points or unhook points.
Edit: I didn't even look at the screenshot. Yeah you didn't get 'hardfacecamped' there, you literally just won the game.
Post edited by Seraphor on6 -
If they face camp they get negative emblem progression, which affects their rank.
For them to be 'hard face camping' and the one person that died to get 16k points is not a hard face camp. I've tunneled survivors to death with less than 1k points. I've also played a lot of games as survivor and not even breach 10k points.
As far as I'm concerned this was a good game.
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I mean BT exists and you can bait a killer away from the hook... A general sense of the game helps to deal with this.
Also if this guy had 28900 then probably he didn't just facecamp. Gens coulda been done while he camped, looping better would have given team mates time to do gens.
28000 BP to me is evidence that hard facecamp didn't really take place, and theres more to this story that you're leaving out.
Also 3 of you escaped. He certainly didn't get a PP for sacrifice there.
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I'm pretty sure the people that face camp don't care about negative emblem progression or rank. Its something that does nothing but ruin the game for survivors and discourages them from playing the game. Now if there were penalties for face camping that were more severe maybe we would start seeing less of it.
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You will never see less camping/tunneling/slugging until survivors stop being genrushing bots. The blunt fact of the matter is that gen speeds are wildly too fast and the only way to stop them is by actively subjugating the entire survivor team for snowball pressure, OR immediately tunnel someone to death as early as humanly possible.
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Then perhaps DBD needs to have a fundamental change to its gameplay mechanics. Better that then to let a years old problem keep getting worse.
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If he scored 28k+ bloodpoints he didn't hard face camp. The killer might have face camped you at the end to get a 1/4 kill just out of frustration or you looped him well enough that he wanted to punish you. Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done about this because by the metrics he played what BHVR would see as a mid-level/good base game experience with the bloodpoints he earned (max BP per game is 32k).
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The penalty is that the killer isn't applying pressure to the other survivors alive and they can freely do gens. If survivors reward facecamping by not doing gens and giving the killer a 4K, they have no one to blame but themselves.
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I was almost going to call this post out for naming or shaming, luckily you spared the Killer's name. This post is just laughably passive-aggressive. If not that, it screams 'I'm angry at a game playstyle and want to rant'. Mate, you would be upset, but there's no need for this.
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Dude don't even post these arguments anymore. You can't win.
People will say " bait the killer " , but anyone with a quarter of a braincell will tell you that a REAL face-camper will NOT get baited.
They will tell you " Borrowed Time " , BORROWED TIME IS TO HELP PREVENT TUNNELING NOT CAMPING.
They pretend like the killer can't just GRAB YOU from pulling them off hook and put you immediately in dying state . . . drop you . . . and finish face-camping. And then the unhooker gets hooked.
They also pretend like gen regressing and gen covering perks aren't a thing and if you bring up gens being not easy to find? They treat you like a noob.
But I've played for a year nearly and I don't know EVERY spawn point on EVERY indoor map possible. You're going to spend some of that time looking if you find it at all and ODDS ARE the person being camped is near one of the gens you need. Usually just meters away.
You can't argue with people because they want to argue that the devs call it a legit strategy when . . . the truth is . . .
The devs just don't want to PAY someone to go THROUGH THOSE REPORTS to potentially have to BAN someone spending a lot of time - money and talking about the game spreading its word and keeping it active. Especially given how few killers there are compared to survivors and let's face it the campers are in a high percentage? Hell body blocking is bannable and I run into and report the same wraiths all the time.
and someone is probably going to hate message me when I say this but, face-camping is cheating BY DEFINITION. Maybe not by rules. But if you're not actually beating someone . . . you're just taking away their ability to play the game . . . and they have zero way to win. . . ? If you go into a game with a handicap knowing no matter what you can't do poorly? That's rigging. Rigging is cheating. ( Don't freaking @me I've had this argument and no one is changing my mind. I don't GIVE A ____ about your freaking opinions to anyone who wants to be defensive about how bad they are at playing killer. )
But yeah don't even bother posting these. It gets the hate train on you.
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Thats never going to happen. Killers have been begging for survivors to have a secondary objective to passively slow down gen speeds, which has been vehemently rejected by survivors because they literally cannot handle doing more than the one objective.
I remember right after the undying change killers were running full hex builds like Thrill, Undying, Ruin, and a wildcard like devour hope, haunted ground, retribution and so many survivors were bitching, pissing, and moaning about having to do bones.
This problem stems just as much from survivors as it does from killers, you can't put the blame wholly on one side when it comes to something like this. I, personally, would love to play fair you know what that got me? See for yourself.
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Well said.
Its ridiculous how much people on these forums defend things like that.
The truth really is that the devs and everyone else knows that the hook is a broken and flawed mechanic in the game but they dont know how to address it in any way.
As survivor i die probably half of my matches and escape half. For killer i get a 3-4k half of my matches and 2-4 escape the other half. Killers seem to want easy 4ks all the time.
Gen speeds arent the problem. Adding another objective isnt going to be fair to survivors either because its pressure enough in most matches to finish 4 gens. Of they add another objective theyd have to increase gen speed.
Maps and addons could use some more refining but killers have a skill curve thats the reverse of survivors (games start out ridiculously easy but get more difficult the more you play and for survivor its the opposite) and that probably has a lot to do with things too.
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They get less points. Less emblem points that is.
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Just git gud.
Face-camping is not problem. It usually happens only when all gens are done and I mean, what else should that killer do?
There are situations, where camping is best play that killer can do and this is just crying from survivor mains.
Unless it is Bubba, there are things you can do to save that player.
Camping can be problem for soloQ, but that is issue soloQ vs SWF, not camping.
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You people need to pick your freaking argument. Is SWF an issue or not? Because every killer main complains and complains about it because they want an easy win. Which is exactly why they go for the weak link directly off hook, etc.
and no, typically you don't get camped JUST at the end. They will usually FC from the very beginning or once two-three gens get done because they know they can't win otherwise so they know they have to play dirty.
Your argument " camping is sometimes the best play that killer can do " , yet you say " git gud " to survivors? Pot meet kettle, hypocrisy at its finest. EXCEPT SURVIVORS DON'T HAVE A WAY TO MANIPULATE THE GAME THAT WAY.
IF the killer can't get any kills without camping he isn't good at the game. That's just that.
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I think you didn't understand me. I don't have problem with SWF, I enjoy playing against them more than soloQ.
I have problem with soloQ, because they are way weaker than SWF. I would buff soloQ by giving them info that is easy to share for SWF, not nerf SWF.
Camping is valid when:
-all gens are done.
-you have 3-gen in that area.
-there is 99% gen next to it (you can wait for it to regress more).
-there is strong hex next to it.
You just want to camp, when you benefit from it by defending multiple objectives, or it is your only objective remaining.
I agree face-camping from start is annoying, but I don't think it is good strategy.
My problem is that, for me it is maybe like 1 in 20. I have no idea, where other players find all those toxic face-camping tunneling killers. Well, I know how they find tunneling killers... They don't know what tunneling means.
If you say that survivor that was face-camped from start shouldn't lose a pip, then sure. I agree.
But banning killers for it? no
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What I mean is almost all killer mains I've seen COMPLAIN endlessly about SWF and how it's toxic and bullying , etc.
If you want to camp a gen, fine. You want to camp a totem? Fine. You want to patrol 3 gens close together? Fine. Those are not camping.
Camping is when you stay within a distance that you can prevent someone from being unhooked. Either by grabbing them when they try to grab the other survivor ( typically face-campers ) or via your longer distance attack or a space you can stalk from to one-shot one or both. ( and those distances aren't very distant. They literally get you before you can get to a loop )
I don't think you know what we mean when we say camp.
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I mean, you camp survivor when you have some of those things there too.
3 gen + hooked survivor etc.
Sorry, but killer has just no reason to leave that area, when all his objectives are there, only because there is survivor on hook.
it looks I didn't explain it well enough, my bad.
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Okay, so what about this situation: no gens done, no gens nearby, killer gets his first hook and just parks under it.
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You're adding instances to it that I'm not including that USUALLY are NOT a part of the equation in an attempt to justify.
Sorry but the killer has a reason to leave that area. The reason being to play the game. If you're staring at a hook 80% of the match you're not playing the game. You're taking away others' ability to play the game to rig the game to an unwinnable state forcing an outcome because you can't play the game.
You can proxy and look about and patrol a distance and look at your OTHER objective points ( guarding the gens ) that ISN'T CAMPING ANYMORE.
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Then that killer is troll, or that survivor pissed him off somehow.
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Well, that's the kind of camping survivors have to deal with.
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Oh, ok.
Face-camping is valid only when every gen is done to secure that kill, or get extra hooks at least.
All other situations, it is bad thing to do, it is better to proxy-camp, where survivors have good chance to save, but you will get at least 1 hit.
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How rare is it for you and what rank are you (it's not that I doubt your skill, just want to know if it is lower rank killer thing)?
I play in red ranks and it is super are for me, but when they do, they usually have meme end game / basement build.
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It's rare for me, but it was common when I was playing with friends.
And in disregard of rarity, it destroyed gameplay on every instance.
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They lose chaser emblem score for camping
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How about you do gens if the killer facecamping. How about that is not that hard
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And what about person, who is on the hook. He should wait until next game? Or be brave and proud for "sacrifice" himself? Like he is the hero becuase he has 2000 points BUT we finished all gens? I have 2065 hours in this game. Never repaired all gens until 120 second :)))
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You are right, I don't care about the penatly for face camping, But your wrong about face camping doing "nothing but ruin the game for survivors and discourages them from playing the game".
Here is why I do it: I am playing against SWF's with mic's to communicate, body block me, tea bag and mock while I have Zero control over who I get matched with and little to no points or fun chases to participate in. So, when I tunnel to catch just one of 4 players that tea bags me then I face camp the snot outta that player for being a part of a SWF that clearly has the advantage... and if the bait works ( it usually does ) it brings the rest of the SWF in for the save and I finally get some basic attack points... else, I end game with as little as 1k points and all survivors go free. I am not ashamed.
As for ruining the game for Survivors because I face camp?...hardly. Like Wolves do, we Killers choose the weakest link in your little 4 player friends team and sepperate them from the heard... knowing that sooner or later the SWF ( with Mic's ) will come to the rescue and body swap the Hook ( rinse and repeat ) until I screw up or I kill them all. Doesn't it sound more fun to save your friend from a Hook and chance death, than to Gen Rush a map... get zero chases, zero heals, zero blinding etc. ?...All the while the Killer shares in the bit of fun and everyone benefits.
As for a more severe penalty for face camping, if my bait-n-hook plan works... we all played the game with decent points, if it fails the only people that benefit are the SWF's ( with Mic's ) that seek to cry about how their little SWF didn't win that Map... cry me a river... I don't care.
Give me 3 other Killers on the Map with me, we don't even need Mic's... and THEN come here and cry about how your little SWF failed and how to hate face camping.
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There is easy solution. Tremendously loosing POINTS for FACECAMP.
So system recognize, if killer is staying next hook more then is normal. Because that is what facecamper hurts most... loosing points. Facecampres usually take BBQ + surv.pudding (or smt else for boosting points). Change my mind but killers ALWAYS GET points faster than survival. Take points away from them...
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So penalty affect only emblem... not points. Check my screenshot. There is "penalty"
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I'd accept that. IF SWF's are eliminated completely. You can't have the advantage of SWF's without a penalty and penalize the 1 Killer against a team of friends that communicate like GPS on my location, without a bit of disadvantage too.
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How can you know, that you play against swf? You are literally example of crying killer who BLAME swf for everything. THIS PROBLEM HAS NOTHING WITH SWF.
We talk about loosing points if you stay right next to hook. Do you have problem with it if you are fair play pro gamer? Maybe you arent...
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The penalty should come from other survivors gen rushing.
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Killers already lose points for facecamping. Try it, you'll get far less than if you actually play the game.
Unless you're using a loose 'survivor' definition of facecamping, which is playing the game normally until EGC and then camping the hook because there's no other objectives to chase.
Ideally the survivor who is getting camped should get more points, and from more categories. My ideas are:
- If you are hooked, and the killer is within 24 meters of the hook, you get 500 Objective points for any generators repaired by other survivors. If your teammates take advantage of the camping to get gens done, you could potentially score 1,000 or even 1,500 Objective points this way.
- You get distraction points in the Bold category for every second the killer is within 24 meters of your hook. To an extent that if the killer were to remain there for the entire 2 minutes it would take you to die, you would accumulate 600 Bold points. (5 points per second basically)
- You get a 50% bonus multiplier to Struggle points (Survival category) if the killer is within 24 meters of your hook. (+450 max)
It's not a massive amount, but then, you did get caught by the killer. You shouldn't be majorly rewarded for failing, but at the same time, you should be getting compensated for being failed, by the killers poor tactic and your teammates inability or unwillingness to try and save you.
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"It's not a massive amount, but then, you did get caught by the killer. You shouldn't be majorly rewarded for failing, but at the same time, you should be getting compensated for being failed, by the killers poor tactic and your teammates inability or unwillingness to try and save you."
@ Seraphor , I have to wonder if you have a clue about what you just said there.
Participation Award, much ?
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Note the "if the killer is within 24 meters of the hook" in every example.
This would give camped survivors an incentive to stick around and help out their team mates, and allow them to complete generators, when a killer is facecamping them from the start.
It would also ease the impact of being immediately set upon by the killer, and then facecamped out of the game, ensuring that, through no fault of your own, the only points you're able to gain in that match would be chase points, maybe a stun or two, and struggle points.
So yes, it is a bit of a participation award, but it is also much less than you would get for actually being able to play the game. Add it up, it's a potential 2,500 points IF the killer facecamps you for two whole minutes, and IF your team mates repair 3 whole gens in that time. If they leave the hook, you get no bonuses. It requires you to stick around for two minutes in a game you have no hope of winning, and struggling for the full 60 seconds, aiding your teammates by giving them time to do gens.
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This is gonna be hard for some people to take in but camping killers will never ever be penalized more than losing some emblem points.
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@ Seraphor
I just don't agree with you.
But lets say that what you posted works... What do you suggest for those SWF's that leave a killer little to no option but to face-camp, else get yet another Match with SWF's ( with Mic's to communicate my GPS ) and shut me down from ever getting a chase, a hit, a sacrifice... because they are SWF's after all... they already have the Gen-Rush and GPS on my location... By your logic, Killers should get Participation Awards for just being in the game, roaming around and watching the Gen-Rush happen without ever seeing a Survivor.
Seems to me you might consider that SWF's always have the advantage. So if a killer doesn't want to waste a Match just looking for any way possible to get points...Killers are going to Face-Camp the weakest of the heard and body-camp, and Mori, and any other tactic they dream of to get on an even keel with the SWF's.
It's enough that Killers have to deal with SWF's but then to penalize them harshly for dealing with SWF's for culling the heard is obsurd in my opinion.... and then rub salt in the wound by giving out "Participation Awards" to the SWF's weakest player.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
The issue with killers who camp and tunnel is that there is no catchup mechanic. Don't get me wrong survivors have the same problem its just a survivor will try and use the hatch to escape instead of tunneling and camping. There is no incentive to spread out your hooks as killer bar bbq. This is a fundamentally bad design decision. A good way to fix this is to have the killer generate a mori that can be used once on any survivor if the killer achieves hooking each survivor in game once. This incentivizes the killer to spread out his hooks and also allows them to reduce gen pressure whilst behind.
That being said survivor in a 1 v 3 environment or 1 v 2 is so abysmally impossible giving the corresponding killer buff would be foolish without increasing survivor gen repair and heal speeds. As survivors die the buff increases so survivors are encouraged to still push the objective instead of camping hatch. Dbd need to focus on shipping these changes simultaneously.
If this change is to dramatic why not make rotating alternate trial "swift trial" whatever you want to call it. test the gameplay there and if it doesn't work out the main trial gameplay will be there. Its kind of silly dbd has only one game mode when you stop and think about it.
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I will REPEAT it! The only way is tremendously decrease points for facecamp
@Seraphor Look at my picture. Killer got 28 900 points! If I streamed this game I would show you but unfortunately I didnt. Killer did not manage to do anything over course of 4 gens. after his first catch he started this. Killer stood 1 meter from hook. He did it 5 or 6 times. We escaped 3 just because luck and one game bug, because killer´s hit didnt hurt me (dont know why). So this means about 2 MINUTES STAYING NEXT TO HOOK.
28 900 FOR NOTHING. Just lets survival bring the points and do whole work! 28 900 + BBQ + PUDDING = EASY MONEY
And we were in fire to save our companion instead of killer who stand next hook and perhaps ate popcorn and drank coca cola in same time.
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Just look at the points! I HAVE SAME POINTS AS KILLER
Killer got 28 900 x BBQ x Cake x Cake
Is this normal? No it ISNT!!
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This is what we've been trying to tell you. There is no problem here.
Any facecamping that happened in this game, was of no consequence. Even the guy who got killed still scored 16k. This was not a bad match by anyone's standards.
Actual facecamping gets everyone less than 10k points, including the killer. This wasn't facecamping.
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Killers are already guaranteed to score more points than survivors. As I mentioned above, a killer who literally just downs a survivor and then facecamps the rest of the game will still score about 10k. Which is pitiful for a killer, but by comparison, the survivor they facecamped in that scenario will score less than 2k.
2,000 bloodpoints, for a match where they potentially used 20,000 bloodpoints worth of items, add-ons and offerings. Hell I've had it happen to me before and only scored 500 BP. Sure I ######### up for a split second at the very start of the match, but it cost me the entire game, by the sheer dumb luck of being the first survivor seen by the killer in a deadzone within the first 20 seconds of the game.
It is widely recognised that the survivor getting facecamped is at the extremely short end of the stick compared to all other players in the game, and is by far the main reason why camping and tunnelling is looked down on.
This is an entirely separate issue to SWFs, and you can't muddy the waters by throwing out "but-but-but- what about SWFs!", it's a non-sequitur.
Nothing about awarding facecamped survivors a few extra distraction points punishes the killer in any way, shape or form. I've never advocated for punishing killers for camping or tunnelling.
Seriously, read my suggestion again. 2,500 additional points maximum, probably quite a bit less in practice, to be added to a survivors own less-than-2K score, for a potential 4k final score. It is literally the most minor, innocuous pieces of scrap thrown at the unluckiest of players in the game... and you're getting triggered by it.
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I am telling you! Killer was 1-2 meter from hook. So is it GAME BUG? Because he definitely didnt got any point penalty for this match.
Well, my boyfriend is totally happy for -dying after one hook- and waiting 15 minutes for another game until we finish this craziness. Jesus this should be game for friends! Cooperative game! Even commercial speaks about this game as cooperative game. So we play coop and than half of us wait 10-15 minutes for another game.
And... the only solution, how start quickly another (normal) game: -disconnect- is forbiden. Great. Really great.
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I also think this tactic should be more punhised. I know when I find 1 of this killers what I´m supposed to do is let my altruism aside and full repair gens. But.... I don´t play a team game to let my teammates being bullied while I click m1 for an eternity. That´s not how the game is enjoyable and funny (maybe for mental killers only).
I can understand a face camp when is neccessary (u have looped a Bubba a lot, gens flew away and that´s your reward) Worth and desserved...But.... Facecampe early game when match is far from be unresolved is a different thing. It´s like when u were playing football as a child and someone said "This is my ball and nobody including me is gonna play".
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I agree with u. There are some players that really don´t care about bloodpoints, ranks, or emblems.
I´ve played with a facecamping tunneling Blight (imagine facecamp with best map movlity of the game btw), with more than 50 steam pages reporting him negative for this behaviour. This guy was proud of it. They just wanna ruin others experience. Solution for him is not dpip or BP...is temporary ban.
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If smb has 50 pages full of reports, thats mean critical DEVS FAILURE. Nobody cares about this ticket anyway.
Killer who got almost 100 000 for game where he stand 2 minutes next on hook is evidently normal. + His comment in chat. GG EZ...
Nobody cares. If you play leaque of legens, there are STRONG RULES. A lot of people got ban even thought they spend money for game. But devs in dbd are like...oh I am scared. If we ban player like this, we will lose money. They dont reflect on players who WOULD PAY IF game is more fair. A lot of people use argument like "play next game, dont read end game chat..." It is ridiculous answers without human factor. Players have feelings, we are not machines.
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There is not, the only thing you can do is gen rush and give the least amount of points to the killer.
Like really, dont waste time trying, full gens.
If you " try to help" the only thing its going to happen its a double face camp and more points for the killer.
If you are the afected one, well it sucks and thats all.
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Seriously? Dont you see how stupid is your strategy? Really dont you see??
5 gens = 5x 80 seconds
1) You dont know killers opinion for few second. So our comrade is on hook maybe for 20 second.
100 second until dead.
2) Even if we IMMEDIATELY run to gens, we dont spawn right next to gens lol!!! So another several second to reach gens
2nd state, 60 second lefts
3) Lets assumed, that we were able to repaired 3/4 of 3 gens.
Our comrade died with 2500 points... gg ez
4) Killer finally leave his spot and he chase another survival. Lets pretend that we finnished those 3 gens and MAYBE we did 1 gen BEFORE facecamp.
1 gens left, 1 survival in chase.
Lets pretend we have good enough team-mate to stand the chase until finnishing last gen.
Nobody did totems because we didint time for that. 95% NOED chance.
So... this is dream idea how game should progress. BUT... Every skilled player knows, that dream idea is not reality. And even thought. Even thought!!! KILLER IS SATISFIED! He got his points. That is what he wants from the beggining.. Cheap, easy, lazy game full of points. And ruining game to others.
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