Which 3 killers need reworks the most?
Answers
-
You're the person I was just discussing this with in the other thread, aren't you? :)
0 -
Interesting. I feel like survivors would hate Trapper even more if they were put in the Dying State by traps.
Legion sounds cool af, but having 4 killers on the map would be overpowered for area control, and that much code would ruin the game with BHVR's coding skills
I think that'd be okay for Ghostface, but I'd still prefer mine. More strategizing, a bit more skill ceiling
0 -
The number changes are nice but I wouldnt necessarilly call it a rework, I do believe Myers needs a little more than that since his power is REALLY outdatted
Again, this would be a start though
0 -
Yeah I know what you mean, just don't see the devs doing anything massive with him
0 -
Were you the one who posted Wraith OP? I mentioned it briefly there
0 -
- The Trapper (The most)
- The Shape (Close tie but Trapper ultimately needs it being the poster boy for DBD)
- Tossup between The Hag and The Spirit simply because I feel like they both have unhealthy game mechanics present.
0 -
HILLBILLY
Buff his chainsaw:
- Increase the Overheat limit to 120 charges and the heat dissipation to 4 c/s and 6 c/s after overheating.
- Reduce Chainsaw charge time to 2.25s.
- Reduce cooldown when ending a Chainsaw Sprint to 1.5s if the Sprint was 2s or more. This reduces the punishment for using Sprints for mobility.
- Reduce bump cooldown to 2.5s.
Rework his add-ons:
- Replace Big Buckle, and Black Grease with charging speed add-ons which reduce charging speed by 6 and 13%, without any debuffs associated with them.
- Remove the debuff from Tuned Carburettor.
- Remove the debuffs from the Engravings add-ons.
- Replace Mother’s Helpers with Pighouse Gloves, and add the Cannibal’s Light Chassis add-on.
- Increase Leafy Mash to 30s.
- Change Heavy Clutch and Off-Brand Motor Oil to reduce Chainsaw cooldown when breaking a Pallet by 10 and 20%.
- Change Apex Muffler to 16m.
Prioritize hitting a survivor over breaking a Pallet. This will fix some of the chainsaws that seemingly go through survivors.
0 -
All 4 are posted here now, lmk what you think. For Hag, I honestly think survivors just need voice comms. There's a lot more counterplay to her when survivors are organized and can attack her web of traps
0 -
WRAITH
Buff his chase power:
- Increase the duration of the speed boost after uncloaking to 1.5s.
- Increase Breaking, Damaging, Opening, and Vaulting action speeds by 20% while cloaked, and make this effect last for 5s after uncloaking. Debuff the Shadow Dance add-ons to 15 and 30%, but make them add to the bonus action speeds given after uncloaking as well.
- Make Bone Clapper base-kit, Wraith is far weaker without it.
- If necessary to balance out these buffs, debuff his cloaked movement speed to 140%.
Rework some add-ons:
- Change All Seeing - Spirit to be like the Blood version, except with an 18m range.
- Change the Clapper add-ons to increase the post-uncloak speed boost duration by 10 and 30%.
- Buff the Swift Hunt add-ons to increase uncloaking speed by 10, 20, and 30%.
- Buff the Windstorm add-ons to increase cloaked movement speed by 0.2, 0.4, and 0.6m/s.
0 -
Yes. :P
0 -
Main thing for Hag is I feel that if you unhook a survivor nearby traps should be destroyed.
For Spirit there needs to be counterplay while they're phasing so you can more reliably read when they're using their power or not.
I'll check Trapper and Shape again however both of those killers I feel need a full on tune up on their kits.
1 -
Yeah, I could see how he'd be annoying, especially if going against survivors who haven't mastered looping. That's also why I suggested in my rework to debuff his cloaked movement from 6m/s to 5.6m/s
0 -
I could definitely add that to Hag, and I did add some counterplay to Spirit.
For Hag: "When a survivor is unhooked, destroy traps within a 3m radius". Prevents camping but allows traps to remain at nearby loops
0 -
I haven't, which I admit definitely plays a part in my difficulty with him, but I think that overall he just has too many abilities that complement each other too well. Tone him down a little, balance him out a bit, I think he'd be in a good spot. Right now I just think that everything he has is a bit much.
0 -
Well the main thing I'd ask is do you feel hook camping is an issue for Hag?
My bias is yes because the kit encourages hook camping more than being creative with some traps. I'd like for that dynamic to switch somehow.
0 -
It's definitely not fun, but she'd need buffs in other ways. Perhaps giving her better add-ons will help with that
0 -
Legion Trickster and Nemesis
0 -
Main three things I'd mention
I'd not increase rescue time to 5 seconds if you give Trapper Haste when someone gets caught in a trap. Additionally instead of giving Trapper haste when a survivor is within a Trap I'd simply give them a haste buff that has a duration the moment a survivor is caught. Because ultimately the RNG and rescue time could cause Trapper to be too strong in chase.
Additionally regarding walking on his own traps I wouldn't do that. Personally I'd just make it so that Dead Hard and any other perks cannot pass through a trap.
0 -
but... her basekit is the entirety of the problem?
a killer who is able to ignore all game mechanics during chases isnt a fair or balanced killer whatsoever.
you know, at least Spirit (who is widely considered to be the second strongest) has to physically walk around the objects in her way and can get stunned out of her power - Nurse on the other hand just straight up goes through the wall and attacks immediately, there is absolutely nothing a Survivor can do against that other than hoping the Nurse screws up.
0 -
Nurse has one of the lowest kill rates in the game and is incredibly difficult to play. Even then, she still has counterplay as long as you break line-of-sight and trick her. I think her base-kit is okay, and the devs are never gonna give her a different power.
0 -
Trapper
Pig
And Trapper again ^^" He really needs it!
0 -
I reduced the Haste buff to 5%, which is just one PWYF stack and not very strong. I'd still take a killer with a chase power over a 120% movement killer with just a Basic Attack. Rescue time is already pretty short, which is why SWFs bully Trapper. It's unfair that his power can be eliminated in a matter of seconds. And the Dead Hard workaround is basically the same as what you are suggesting, but my way allows for more plays around Traps. Dead Hards can go through but so can Trapper
0 -
Trapper and Pig already up, lmk what you think. Btw I agree, Trapper and Pig are my top 2
1 -
NEMESIS
Buff the tentacle:
- Slightly widen the tentacle hitbox. It requires way too much precision for a game where survivors can wiggle and turn so much.
- Reduce missed tentacle attack cooldown to 2.25s.
- Reduce tentacle cooldown when hitting a zombie to 2s. They get in the way sometimes and this will help.
- Reduce the speed boost survivors get when initially contaminated by 75%.
- Prioritize hitting a survivor over breaking a Pallet when using his power. This will fix some of the attacks that seemingly go through survivors.
- Buff Tier 2:
- Allow multiple survivors to be hit with the tentacle attack.
- Buff Tier 3:
- Reduce the pallet-breaking duration with the tentacle to 2.3s in Tier 3.
- Allow the tentacle attack to break a Pallet and hit a survivor at the same time.
Rework the zombies:
- Allow zombies to slow-vault Windows.
- Increase movement speed to 2.5m/s. Debuff related add-ons.
- Make zombies lose collision with the survivor after an attack which removes a health state.
- Improve the AI:
- Make zombies go around objects. There’s so many times they just walk into walls and get stuck.
- Make them move towards survivors who are within a certain radius, even if they are not looking at them.
- Take pathing into account for prioritizing.
- This is not a catch-all list. Zombie AI needs a lot of work.
Still working on add-ons, lmk what you think
0 -
Regarding Dead Hard you are correct it would bring room for more plays but it would honestly be pretty unfun and at times a bit too strong to just let Trapper deny a loop and to be able to effortlessly cut in the middle of it where a trap is to get a hit on a survivor. It excludes anyone who doesn't run Dead Hard enforcing it into the meta slot it is in now. Basically it gives people another reason to run it all the time which I feel is unhealthy for the game as it enforces a meta.
Why have many niche perks when we can have a single perk good at many niche task? That's the issue with perks right now and why a lot of perks are just meta constantly. They're just too good and there's no sense in giving these perks more reason to be chosen over other perks.
0 -
Hmm, that's true, I'll change it. Fyi, I badly want to improve perk diversity. Take a look here if you're interested: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nUxBRomb77siSwDWkoD6fDjIbfiWKOU6uKLjS58MV34/edit?usp=drivesdk
0 -
According to rumours, the last one might actually happen.
0 -
Ooh fun. They better not screw her up. They feel so clunky now, should've just nerfed their camping
1 -
you just brought up the prime example for why we shouldnt trust those stats - Nurse is easily the strongest Killer in this game, even if she has the lowerst kill rate.
Even then, she still has counterplay
she quite literally has not. against a good Nurse, there is nothing you can do as a Survivor other than to die or hope she screws up. and yes, breaking LoS does count towards the later - good Nurses will either predict your movement with insane accuracy, or just blink to the corner they lost you at and then use their second blink to get on top of you.
i have seen people play Nurse without any Offerings, Add Ons or Perks and still obliterate fully stacked Survivor teams with her.
Heck you dont even have to be good at DbD to win with her, you just gotta be good at Nurse - she is essentially playing her own game, not even DbD anymore!
is she ever gonna get reworked?
idk. IF the Devs want to perfectly balance this game, then yes. But i highly doubt that would ever happen, plus with them being so set on pushing MMR now as well, you cant just take away the only viable Killer option for high rank MMR (which says a lot about the state and competetive viability of this game imo)
but if were purely look at the health of this game, then yes, Nurse (aswell as the other two mentioned Killers - Trickster and Twins) need to get reworked - Nurse even more than the other two, as she is the only one whose very concept of the power is deeply flawed.
0 -
I encourage you to watch Oracle vs Agony for some pristine Spirit and Nurse counterplay. They're obviously the top 2 killers but they aren't unstoppable
0 -
again: the only way to beat a Nurse in a chase is to have the Nurse screw up.
is she always going to get 4 kills every game? no - if you genrush the sh*t out of her you will still get escapes, but in a chase there is literally nothing reliable the Survivor can do to stop her.
You can try to make her miss a blink by pretending to go in one direction but actually going somewhere else, but that "counterplay" banks entirely on your opponent not predicting it (alias making a mistake). and if they do, you die.
and yes, even Oracle and Agony make mistakes. if their Nurse ever lost a chase, thats entirely on them.
0 -
Their Nurses are the best in the world, watch the games. Survivors can absolutely trick a Nurse. Yeah she's the strongest killer but even she is often overmatched by their SWFs
0 -
Legion, Trapper, Trickster.
0 -
Trapper and Pig are the only ones bad enough that I feel they need genuine reworks.
0 -
I posted reworks for all 3 in this thread, let me know what you think
1 -
Reworks posted for both in this thread, tell me any suggestions you have
0 -
Somehow, your suggestions have nothing to do with a rework, just with nerfing the spirit. There is a difference, you know.
0 -
Nurse, Myers, and Legion.
0 -
Nurse just need add-ons nerfs, Myers and Legion reworks are posted in here
0 -
Spirit is the 2nd strongest killer in the game, and making her appear briefly gives benefits for both sides while still allowing for mindgames. It changes the skill curve, not the ceiling. So instead of being condescending about it, how about you think about it for more than 5 minutes? The only outright nerf is the passive phasing, which takes absolutely no skill, and the iri movement speed add-on, which is ridiculously strong
1 -
Trapper, Pig and Spirit
0 -
All 3 are posted here, let me know what you think :) I love Pig btw, hope she gets buffed
0 -
Well here it is
Trapper:needs slight buff and desperate and more fun way of using traps overall one of my favorite killers
Pig:one of my mains well with her I preform well but it's struglle most of time she has zero mobility but some of her add ons are cool just slight buff
Spirit:slight nerf/change nothing much just something that won't make her such a pain to loop and go against overall like the killer and play with her but I do agree that she needs slight change
0 -
Agreed on all, more or less, though I meant that I had my own reworks posted in here
0 -
Pig needs a nerf lma0
0 -
You must not play at a very high level then. Kill rate means absolutely nothing either, because Nurse is the lowest. Pig has one of the weakest chase powers in the game, no mobility, and her traps have workarounds, not to mention they're totally RNG reliant.
Also, the post said rework, not buff. She's good against bad loopers but horrible agajnst decent survivors
0 -
Deathslinger
Twins
Pig
0 -
I know I have read them and I agree
0 -
Ooh Deathslinger. I'll @ you. Twins and Pig already posted in this thread, lmk what you think
0 -
DEATHSLINGER
Buff the Redeemer:
- Increase Reload movement speed to 85% of his regular speed. Reloading after injuring a survivor really hurts him.
- Change the way the Redeemer injures people:
- Healthy survivors are automatically injured when shot, and Deep Wound is applied if hit by the lunge.
- Injured survivors have Deep Wound applied when shot and are downed if hit by the lunge.
- This is more or less a quality of life change, but it reduces the penalty for letting a survivor go and not getting a hit.
- Give the Redeemer a 0.5s cooldown after cancelling Aim Down Sights. This will reduce his ability to constantly zone survivors by aiming at them, similar to the Executioner’s old issue.
Rework a couple add-ons:
- Buff the Mending time add-ons to 2 and 5s. Make them non-stackable with each other and other add-ons.
- Change Marshal’s Badge and Gold Creek Whiskey to permanently decrease Terror Radius by 3 and 6m.
- Change Hellshire Iron to reveal all survivors Auras for 5s after downing a Speared survivor (downed within 3s of being Speared).
0
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
