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Pretty sure the sbmm is broken
Just played my first match since this ranking started I was a rank 4 ash killer with 0 points in the hidden skill ranking (becuase you know first match) played against irridecent and gold rank survivors who obviously had to have a higher skill rating as they had played more than 0 games and had a high rank.
So I indicated in another post I was worried that the matchmaking would be screwed up and without making the players skill number visible it's gonna take even longer to fix since no one can tell its broken.
Also I posted this in general not bug because as far as I can tell this must be the intended result behind the hidden number ie that it be impossible to be bugged because no one can see it.
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Your MMR isn't 0. The system has been gathering data since killers were locked into lobbies.
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That's not quite true. They said they resetted the data on the previous test before the one this month.
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Ah, that's even better!! I actually missed that, but for anyone reading this that doesn't know what that means, it's essentially both getting rid of the invalid data from when MMR couldn't function correctly, and also not punishing people that just play waaaayyyyy too much dbd
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My understanding was that we were essentially starting fresh also my second match paired me with 2 ash and 2 bronze survivors as would be expected if it was working properly. So either we were at 0 and it screwed up my first game or were wernt at 0 and the second was screwed up. And before someone posts that the second may have had a high skill number and just be low ranked. No they were very clearly not as skilled. It was obvious in the match that my survivors were less skilled.
I'd put money on its pure random right now but who knows. What are other people finding. I mean I know you can't say I'm skill level 26 and matched with skill 2343 so it's not working bevuase again the devs don't seem to want people to be aware of their failings but you should be able to infer without the numbers being all mysterious and secretive
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obviously youre going to need a few "qualifier games" so to speak while it figures out where to put you. this was probably one such game.
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No if you have a skill of 0 it would match you with others at 0. Granted it wouldn't represent out actual skill level however 5hose I played against clearly had a high skill level becuase they had clearly played more than a single match. so I should have never been matched with them. Atleast nit until my skill level goes up over time .
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every one starts at zero though, and it dosent take rank so much into account it seems. my first survivor game my killer was ash, next was silver, then a bronze, and only then did i start getting golds/iris for killers.
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The point was that since they had high ranks they played matches to get there unlike me who had played 0 so they should have had a high skill level
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unfortunatley thats not how it happened, i can confirm it. i was in gold after the update, and quickly hit iri. so they seemingly just took your rank and made that your grade yesterday.
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It's been live for less than a day, that test not long ago wasn't all that long, and there's a lot of curves to try to flatten. Give it time and let's see.
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That's the problem with hiding the number. It will be nearly impossible to tell if it's working as intended or not. Which I imagine is the reason they had the numbers hidden in the first place so people wouldn't be able to point out how badly they screwed ot up
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From the "Skill Based Matchmaking Recap" News from June 14th, 2021
"Halfway through our test, we were seeing many reports of high-skill Killers being matched against low-skill Survivors. At around 1PM EST on Thursday (around halfway through the test) we enabled a system that would assign unrated Killers a starting Rating based on their other Killers. To put this another way, if you had a high Rating with The Shape and The Trapper then decided to try out The Oni for the very first time, your Oni rating would start higher than the normal default due to your experience with other Killers. Enabling this appears to have resulted in an improvement of match quality, and we intend to improve this system in our next iteration."
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Great except I said it was my first match so there were no other killers for this to apply to as they all had 0 skill levels. Unless you had some other point you were trying to make. It's hard to tell since you just put an irrelevant quote in without context.
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let me explain to you how MMR works. Not just in DBD, but EVERYWHERE.
1st - No MMR starts at 0. they use higher numbers because it makes it better to balance new players and accounts for people being "good" at the game from the start.
2nd - in your first X matches, you get paired with players of several skill levels.
3rd - During those matches, your MMR will increase/decrease a lot more than normal. this is done to try to "triangulate" what your starting MMR should be.
4th - after those X matches, the system normalyzes. meaning your gain/loss of MMR goes to the proper amount and the range to find a match for you gets adjusted to whatever the proper range is.
so... play a bunch so the system can properly place you in whatever range of play you should be at
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OK so instead of zero they start at say 1000. Replace all of my 0s with 1000 and my point still stands. I would be ranked at 1000. the people I played with considerably higher skill would be significantly higher skill level. as they had played the matches to get triangulated as you put it, let's say 2000 for no reason, and should not be playing with 1000s unless the system is bugged,( which of coarse it is the devs seem incapable of putting anything out thay isn't,) we just can't easily report those bugs .
because they hid the numbers i can't just screenshot the end of match and show that a rank 1000 is against a bunch of rank 2000s so some people will rush in to say it can't possibly be bugged it must be some other explanation which means the bug report gets buried amount an avalanche of no just trust the developers it's working as intended
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I hate people using this excuse. We KNOW thats not the case, everybody KNOWS your MMR doesn't begin at 0. if its been gathering data then why are so many peoples games completely broken? Shouldn't that gathered data be going to proper matchmaking like they said it would? The matchmaking is awful and needed more time in the oven.
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Well, the first problem here is expecting BHVR to be transparent :-p
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Or maybe just some transparency so the devs screw up can be pointed out. More time probably wouldn't help
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Haha beat me to it
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Grade (what used to be Rank) means nothing in terms of skill level. All that is is a placeholder for End of Seasons Rank Rewards. You get rewarded based on what Rank you achieved as both a Survivor and a Killer. You cannot drop down a Grade level, it's more of an achievement than a progression style thing, so if you've achieved Iri 1 with a P350 maxed Nurse, you don't have to worry about losing that Reward if you want to try out your Clown who is level 15 with Monstrous Shrine T3.
MMR so far, from my experience, has been a pretty solid win. Every game, except one against a Camper, have been pretty damn exciting and enjoyable. Last match against a Blight was one of the best I've had in a LONG time. I've only played maybe a dozen, so not much of a sample size, but 11 out of 12 really solid matches makes me quite happy at this time. Might be a win for BHVR, but we'll see here in a week or two once I've played more matches.
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It was your first match since when? Because if this is an extension from the last test, the data is compiled from the last several months. So if you had a run of multiple wins with ANY killer is the last half year or so, it had taken those samples as a consideration to place you, even if your old "ranking" indicates that you haven't played at all (due to the resets).
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And it's in the oven, let it cook. A week or two of testing isn't going to do much other than to see if it's working, but now MMR is out and SBMM is in. It should flatten out before too long. (keyword: should)
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they would not pair you with people with the same rank as you for the first X matches.
what would that accomplish?
they give you people higher, and lower. usually by a big margin. because every MMR works by over/under shooting.
It like me telling you to guess a number and after every guess I go "higher" or "lower". You start with big differences and work your way down to smaller changes. that's what the system does.
now, people that are getting "triangulated" will play against people that have been "triangulated" already. that's just normal. that's literally how it works. please understand how something is supposed to work before complaining about it. don't just imagine in your head what you think it is, look it up.
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We laughed at rainbow ranks, but can't really laugh at rainbow grades for this exact reason.
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Lol. No kidding. I used to get Skittles when I played as a Killer all the time, rarely ever when I ran as a Survivor.
Now though, I have to keep stopping myself going "######### is with these Ranks?" because Grades don't mean a damn thing other than they've gotten to X Rank Reward Tier.
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Oh, so it functions completely differently from their release statements. "Skill based matchmaking ratings are also separate for each Killer, meaning you’ll have tougher matches with the Killer you’re really good at, but easier matches when you’re trying out a new Killer for the first time."
Unless it means higher than the global average, but lower than your main killer's MMR (indicated to not be the case by experiences), these statements are mutually exclusive. So all they did is move the problem from one side to another. Classic. If you don't have a great build on a new killer, enjoy your loosing streak nerd, because the matchmaking system is actively going to search for tough opponents for you.
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They would never say one thing and do another that's blasphemy around these parts aparently
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They aren't lying. It's still easier than the old system to play a brand new killer if you were in the high red ranks, but probably not as easy as most of us thought it would be - after all, they are aiming for a 2K2E average in the end. Though I do agree that in my personal experience, they had probably overshot the rating boost for unplayed killers, but that could just be because 1. in the old Ranking System, I was getting many win streaks due to the fact that I rarely ever play killer anymore, so that I remained pretty much in the lower ranks (green and below) and 2. when I did play killer-side, I felt more comfortable playing with killers with simpler mechanics and avoided playing the more difficult killers, allowing me even more wins, and therefore boosted my ratings score even more than it should. So yeah, it's probably doing what it's supposed to be doing. Ultimately it was necessary, even though I personally wish that they didn't boost the rating by that much, and instead played it safer to account for console players trying to learn certain killer mechanics.
*shrug* It's only a problem if their new system makes it really difficult to lower your MM rating - although it's also a big problem if it is too easy to do that too - given that "skills" don't normally deteriorate.
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The only problem is if your unable to lower your rank.....unless it's bugged of course. That would never happen with these devs right?
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Actually, it seems that very few people's games are actually broken, if any at all.
And the OP literally stated they they thought their MMR was at 0 in the very first sentence of this post. So there's also that.
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Yah 0 as in base line it could be 100000 starting but 0 got the point across
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Sure, but I don't like throwing out random conspiracy theories on what could happen without substantial proof. And I don't see the point of all the handwringing on the first day of bringing out a new system - personally I'm willing to wait several months at the very least to form an opinion.
And even if you were right and that were the case, at that point, when players realize that they can't seem to get fair matches no matter how many matches they lose horribly, they'll stop playing. And then the developers will wonder why, and reassess their data and most likely fix it.
Either way, it sounds like a developer problem; not mine. I can always go play other games.
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So to summarize your point it's don't point out any problems woth the game just wait for a few months to see if it goes away on its own and of it doesn't then just quit and go elsewhere?
I mean it could be a bug they are unaware of so if we all take your advice it would just never get fixed...seems like a better option would be if you took your own advice and just didn't say anything ever. Why are you on the forums then?
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My legion score must have been maxed out, been facing swf key & flashlight squads all day. Consistently been beaten hard by these groups and I have yet to see any signs of my games any better.
And no I am not good enough to even break even against these guys.
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Don't worry didn't you read no one os experiencing any problems at all you must be mistaken and actually crushed them in some of those matches.....
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Is it a problem? Doesn't seem like it to me - like I said, the system seems to be doing exactly what the developers are wanting it do, regardless of whether it's what you or I want. And yeah, patience is a virtue. Compiling data takes time. So why should the developers listen to reactive players' handwringing when they're not even giving the new system a chance on it's very first day?
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My games when I did play were just as inconsistent as before. Some games I would get coordinated people and then the next two are braindead. Some games I got thrown some brown grade players that also played like brand new survivors. If you want reliable matchmaking on survivor side all you can do is play SWF. If you want it on killer Yes grades don't "mean anything" but if someone is brown and playing with iri's then clearly the MMR didn't do anything it just threw them in where they fit.
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Hahaha I like how he posted just above how he's having problems and your response is well I'm nit having a problem so a problem must nit exist.
Also what does patients have to do with not hiding the skill value they place.? What exactly is the problem with having that number shown? Well except for the fact that bugs could be reported and you seem to be in denial that they exist
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Well, obviously you've already made up your mind that BHVR is withholding the skills rating information to "hide bugs" or have some other nefarious reasons. Of course, it could just be that they want players to just focus on their matches and do their best to escape/kill instead of focusing on some numerical value assigned to them by SBMM. Because ultimately, these things shouldn't matter to the players playing the game - it's simply a matchmaking system, and not a win condition. But sure, go ahead and develop some grand conspiracy that BHVR developers all have some sort of scheme to "deceive" their playerbase so that their bugs are less prevalent than they already are.
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No I suppose i can't say they are doing it solely to hide bugs. My point has been that the effect of hiding it regardless of whatever motive they chose to state, is that it will take longer to fix if it was hidden than if it was visible.
I ask you again why do you want thr number hidden so badly?
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I don't think so? They literally said the opposite on the final test, and were using more data than ever before. And on the forum post for current SBMM they make no mention of resetting the data. Maybe there's somewhere else they said it?
"We’re using several months of data to calculate your ratings rather than a few weeks"via https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/271612/news-skill-based-matchmaking-test#latest
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It is not about want, mmr is more or less never visible because then you would see the discrepancy between mmr and rank.
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I played today and it started me at Ash 4. I normally got down to green or purple ranks under the old system. After a couple games, I was being matched with all red grade people in almost every match. It looked silly. Rank 1 killer, red rank teammates, and then me... literally at the bottom of the scale lol. So, unless something was broken with mine, it doesn't seem to work as you say.
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Mandy also said that even tho they collected data, your starting MMR could be missplaced/missmatched and be too high or low
Sooooo yeah
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Grade doesnt give you anyfeedback on the MMR you can be ash with à MMR score as good as an iri player, he just played more then you basically (or you played very very selfishly)
They Said you can lose pips on your grade, yet cannot drop à grade anymore, so if you want the Iri 1, just power your way in
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Grades have nothing to do with the MMR System. They are only for End of Season Rewards. Higher Grade = Higher Reward per side. So you can get Iridescent 1 for both Killer and Survivor. Your MMR rank is completely hidden, so you will never know how your matches stack up versus the team mates you have, or the Survivors you are trying to kill.
Everyone will be reset to Ash IV at the end of the Season on the 13th of each month. The one nice thing with this is you can never downrank. So if you gain Iri 1, then have some bad matches, you will never downgrade to Iri 2.
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...I know. I read all of the patch notes. I fully understand how the new system works, and what grades mean. However, it seemed like some people were implying that your skill affected which grade you got placed in for the rest of this month. Also, even if that's not the case and it's literally a 1-to-1 mapping from old ranks to grades, being red ranked under the old system did have some link to skill. Clearly there were shortcomings, but because you could lose pips and derank, it wasn't meaningless. So, me being matched with all red grade lobbies right now, before the first full reset, does provide a clue as to how my MMR "stacks up" at the moment. That will go away with the next reset, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid for now.
To be honest, I don't really care for the grades. They seem misleading and pointless under the new system. I think they should just get rid of them and absorb that into the rift system so that all the progression-based stuff happens there. The grades have the appearance of a rank, but it is definitely not a rank. That's bad design in my opinion. If it is merely a progression system, make it look like one...don't model it after the ranked divisions other competitive online games use lol.
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Back in June they ran an SBMM test and shortly into the test a dev or a mod made a post said they resetted everyone's mmr. So the last test back in June was using data from a few weeks and this release should be using data since around end of May beginning of June.
If the forums had better search functionality, I would have found the post
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Almost no games shows you your exact MMR. It's just showing your visible rank which heavily gets influenced by MMR from back-stage. There's a big difference between a visible rank and the hidden MMR.
And even then basically every game I know of forces you to adjust your MMR before even being able to join ranked. CSGO forces you to play x amount of unranked matches. LoL does so too (gotta be a certain level to join ranked), and so on. MMR already IS PRESENT in unranked games. It just does not get represented by any other metric like a visible rank. That unranked MMR gets ported over to your ranked MMR.
Stop looking at DbD as if you'd be playing "ranked". You're not, you're playing unranked. There is no real ranked mode in DbD.
MMR needs to adjust itself over a decent amount of games, as someone already has tried to explain to you.
Your first match/day experience literally means nothing in the context of MMR. You're still being calculated. Play a few matches.. 10, 20, 50, 100. The more you play the more you'll see the MMR do it's job better. That's how MMR in every game works.
If it really works in DbD is something we'll see in a few weeks. Complaining about it one the first day though is absolute nonsense.
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Well even if they gathered some data before releasing the MMR system, you still gonna have to play around 10 matches before it's fully placing you where you belong ^^
You truly only start from 0 (if 0 is the starting point) when playing with a new killer, since there is no data available.
That's why :
- when i played Pinehead tuesday (MMR off) i got stomped because i played for the first time this killer against my usual ranks (red ranks)
- when i played Pinehead yesterday (MMR on), i stomped survivors because i was getting match with low MMR players because the system had no data to use and i started at 0.
- when after that i played Freddy (MMR on), i played a balanced game against survivors my level because the system already had some data on my performance with this killer
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