How is Iron Will not a problem but Spirit is?
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As much as I'm complaining about IW, I do run it. Killers simply cannot hear you around objects. The dead silence of the perk allows you to get away with stuff you cannot do when normally injured.
I also like not hearing the pain noises.
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Iron Will belongs in the small pp survivor build. Robs killers of an entire sense.
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What a silly question, don't you know survivors just want to gut Spirit so there's no actual killer who can give good survivors a run for their money?
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Iron Will is in the top 5 used Survivor perks for a reason.
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Scratchmarks and blood are both designed to be unreliable as hell. Scratchmarks indicate an area, blood easily blends into the ground. That means you can slap on Iron Will and, due to the moronic Chass music change they made, you are literally undetectable and the killer has to make a pure guess, while you can often both see the killer and hear their overloud footsteps. This allows people like me to just not even bother mindgaming and simply run away while the killer screws themselves through no fault of their own, but entirely due to the fusion of a moronic change and a bugged perk (and it is bugged).
Iron Will is supposed to be a stealth perk, not a chase perk like it currently is.
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People will skirt around the reasons it is used, but it's not used in so many builds 'Just Because.'
Most sites that collect stats from endgame usually list it in the top 5 (granted, its exact position varies by site).
There's nothing wrong with using it - It's one of the best perks in the game.
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With the latest update footsteps are pretty consistent and easy to hear so I dont think Iron Will is a problem but its still strong.
Spirit needs some adjustments still though.
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i equip perk i silent... doesnt seem fair, but okay. not saying spirit stridor was fair, just iron is strong as hell with no downside and it has no circumstances to activate you just get value. thats kinda strong ye.
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Yes - and it's a bugged perk with a severely unfair effect on trials that the Devs seem to genuinely want.
As I said, I use Iron Will. And I think it's one of the most broken things in DbD thanks to how the game evolved around it and one major bug that was never even addressed, let alone fixed.
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Iron Will got nerfed quite a while ago now and even top tier, purple three tick you are still grunting and making noise. It also doesn't have any effect on illness or slugs, still making all kinds of noise there. Iron Will is not some OP perk, I dropped it as soon as it got nerfed and basically made your grunts mildly quieter. I only run perks that actually work, I had to drop small game recently after it got a massive nerf. Survivor perks have been repeatedly nerfed, changed or rendered useless for a solid 2 years now. Almost nothing could be considered that OP anymore.
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Idk man it's just sus to me that IW only ever gets brought up in tandem with Spirit and no other killers. Makes me think it's not that it's IW that's the problem, but more that Spirit players are frustrated that there's a perk that counters a part of her power. But that's kinda the point of many perks, no?
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I thinks its strong against almost all killers if they run behind a wall on a loop its so much harder to mind game not been able to hear there position on the other side or just run away and your wasting time trying to mind game nothing. I would compare it to light born you just throw it on and flashlights don't work.
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Agree I had a very simiular talk with my friend about, since the stridor nerf Iron will is even more popular then it was already, since almost everyone uses it now without any counterplay to it I believe it should get nerfed or reworked. I wouldnt mind a nerf to 70 or 80% but a rework to it would be also a good idea, there is literally no defending argument to keep this perk except "MEHH I CANT PLAY WITHOUT MY IRON WILL".
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a downside would be interesting for IW. You have any suggestions? Maybe something like skill checks while injured are narrowed by ‘x’ or even great skill checks are removed while injured? Too busy focusing on not making sound to notice pr perform up to snuff.
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It can maybe use a timer like Lucky Break.
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Doesn't matter what killer you are against. Hearing grunts of pain is an integral part of the game. Why? Because the game is completely different when playing with skilled players. Grunts of pain is the determent of jungle gyms, TL's, and most main buildings on maps. A survivor running back and fourth on one side creates a lot of blood, and a lot of scratch marks. It's bothersome to see the responses that think Blood and Scratch marks is a valid excuse for this perk being so powerful. That's not the situation that is the problem. That's not even a factor in the situation that is the problem with this perk. Footsteps? Footstep sounds haven't worked properly ever. Breathing? Same. That's the whole point the other two were never fixed, because Grunts of Pain worked.
Sure if they fix footsteps, and breathing then Iron Will isn't a problem, but just fixing footsteps and breathing would also make using Iron Will useless for what it is used most in skilled play - and that's having complete control over powerful loops that you would never chase a healthy survivor into. Then BHVR would have to try and ignore the outrage from all the survivors that rely on this broken perk they exploit. It would be like the Ruin changes, but worse because for every Killer there are 4 survivors.
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Iron will, lucky break, sprint burst are really good counters against a spirit and make her chase almost avoidable if used correctly. it feels good finally finding a spirit counter after years
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Iron Will is way more problematic than Spirit, simply because Iron Will mutes almost all sounds survivors make.
Personally I think Spirit is fine, simply because survivors want every single detail the killer is doing to outplay her and I personally can't support that as counterplay because its like taking a test and having the answer key. On top of that, there is just no way to change spirit without butchering her kit or making her a A- killer that survivors can walk all over her.
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Her add ons need a look at and the stand still mind game should get removed. Other than that, she’s fine and she does take way more skill than people claim as well. Iron Will definitely needs a nerf.
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1. Add-ons: Add-ons don't define a killer simply because you can change her add-ons and the problem is still there
2. Fake Phasing: While I agree, the problem with getting rid of her stand still is that you nerf and butcher her kit. Her kit is designed to trick survivors, to get rid of her fake phasing you need to give survivors a indicator which is essentially butchering what makes her unique.
3. Nerf IW: It doesn't need to be nerfed, it just needs to be fixed so it doesn't surpress other survivor sounds. I do run IW and as a Spirit main I pick up on every sound. There will be times when I'm running IW and my survivor won't make any breathing sounds.
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Agree 100%. I think Iron Will is the most poorly designed perk in the game. You take away a vital game mechanic by equipping a perk. It takes no input from the player to activate and it works optimally simply by existing in the trial. There's nothing the other side can do to mitigate its effect. It's poorly designed.
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Thank you. It certainly needs some kind of downside because the effect it has is too powerful to warrant not having one.
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Simple iron will is 1 perk
spirit is a killer with a good powe busted with add ons and she can bring 4 perks with it
also iron will lets u get away with a lot example iron will hide while the killer walks by he normally would have heard u
but point clear spirit players tend to bring op stuff on one the strongest killers in the game
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Except you can counter Spirit by knowing when she's phasing. Comp players do it all the time. So why give survivors more hand-holding changes and give them an uncounterable perk?
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Yeah? It is one perk that is stupidly strong with no downsides and takes nothing from the survivor side to get the perk to activate other than slapping the perk on. Iron Will needs a nerf because it’s boring and doesn’t really offer counterplay from the killer side while mind gaming just like people say about Spirit.
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Objection there is plenty counterplay
blood u can see it
footsteps u can hear it
bloodhound exists
whispers
shall i go on
also im a killee and ive besn maininf billy so i use chainsaw wont need 2 hits 😂
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The game's design as well as the community is survivor-sided. You are never going to have a decent argument here about why Iron Will is problematic because of this.
90% sure it's coming from survivor mains because the whole 'you can see blood so iron will has a counter' bullshite is just an example of that. That's literally an analogous comparison to survivors being able to see Spirit's animation reset when her phasing begins, which always happens regardless of seeing shards or the outfit she's wearing. Comp players do it all the time and they do it with almost perfect accuracy. But you're going to get downtrodden before the majority of the community here admits that there are also many things broken on the survivor's end as well due to them wanting to be handhheld constantly.
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The shards are so unnoticable u would basically have to be on top of her to notice it
and if she is that close why would she phase she can simply smack u
spirits power is good without add ons but ubfortunate spirit her add ons all of em are strong making her power oppressive plus all spirits bring ruin undying sloppy and a information perk thats why people dislike her
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This game's comp scene is a joke and you shouldn't use it as an example of what you should balance around.
It should be balanced around good players, yes, just not the tournament squads who represent an abnormal amount of coordination and skill.
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Blood: Doesn't show exactly where the survivor is currently, it only shows where they were.
Footsteps: Incredibly inconsistent.
Bloodhound and Whispers: This is irrelevant because people always bring up how Iron Will isn't a reliable counter to Spirit because you shouldn't have to waste a perk slot to hopefully get a killer that is countered by it. So why should Bloodhound and Whispers be labeled as reliable counters to Iron Will?
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That still has nothing to do with the unnecessary buff to Iron Will. People want to talk about stand still mind games being problematic but want to defend E to outplay or free invisibility with Iron Will for no effort. Problems presented in this community tend to not get much backlash when it's talking about problems with killers but it takes struggling to call attention to things that are problematic on survivor's side.
Then why is everyone at MMR basically copying what comp players do? If your mmr is even moderately high people are playing pubs as if they're scrim games.
The good players play like comp players, hence the comparison. Comp does to the best of its abilities to utilise the best techniques and strategies. Why on earth would good solo players not do the same? They can be used in both comp and pubs and it's very observable how they're used in pubs nowadays.
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There is but and it is even a bigger problem then Spirit, but survivor mains ofc dont care about that :)
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Be careful now, not advocating for the preservation for the tonnes of strong crutch perks survivors have is going to get you put in the rubbish bin by this community
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Remember when all the Spirit players said Spirit was totally balanced because Iron Will counters her, so every single spirit started running Stridor which made Iron Will (her only "counter") an empty perk slot.
It's almost like you want your opponent to have no counterplay against you. You're already playing Spirit, if you use your ears/scratch marks, you're still a top 5 killer easily even if all 4 players had Iron Will.
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Are you directly using the second paragraph towards me or?
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I fear nothing!
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While I'm used to Iron Will for the most part, it IS one of those "it's annoying because it's frequent use perks". Kinda like some Killer perks.
I think IW shouldn't be nerfed (assuming other sounds are consistent and IW isn't bugged, even then other options should be considered first), but just like with alot of other frequent Survivor perks right now; other weaker perks should be brought up to snuff so we could have variety. I am SICK of IW for the record, because of the frequency. It does affect a base mechanic of the game in a major enough way and makes alot of plays much less risky with no downside (as been repeated here).
Other tracking is too inconsistent to justify the effect IW has, but again, not saying it should be nerfed. IW's powerfulness depends alot on how other perks and especially game mechanics behave at any current patch. Remember when sound occulsion and Dedicated servers were introduced? The jerky, teleporty movement of Survivors combined with both non-IW and IW users made me lose Survivors left and right. IW users could just disappear after a simple shack window, worse if they were the Sprint Burst walking type or Lithe user. I remember as a result there was a short popularity of Lithe/Dance with players playing against me at that time because how easy it was to lose Survivors (anyway this is offtopic and I'm rambling).
tldr; Frequency of a perk and the researched culture around making plays using 1 or more perks is the reason IW is strong, combined with patch to patch changing consistency/inconsistency of other tracking present in the game (blood, marks, sound and it's occlusion etc.). It shouldn't be nerfed, other weaker/non-used perks should be buffed for variety.
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