Should We Know (After the Game) Who Was in a SWF?
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A lot of people chalk up their poor game experience to going against a 4 man SWF. I've been accused of being in a SWF more than once when I wasn't, so when I see posts from people saying they lost to a SWF, I wonder if those people were actually in a SWF.
So the question is, post game, should everyone know who was in a SWF? And if so, why?
On the one hand, thinking you were in a SWF and learning you weren't could A, help you catch and report actual cheating but B, show you that you simply weren't as skilled as those you faced, and that could help you get better as a player. (I know, I know. I've been on these forums long enough to realize that "B" is a pipe dream. It takes a lot of maturity to accept someone simply outplayed you. There always has to be a reason outside of one's own shortcomings (ex: "The map is broken"). Sometimes that is true, but realizing when it isn't true is hard. Still, I'm the type who would find it valuable.)
But back to the question, I can think of a lot of pros and a lot of cons. And it certainly would open up a lot of questions. Should Killers get a proportionate BP bonus based on the size of the SWF, for instance? And what about those times when people play together, but aren't on comms? The game can't possibly account for that.
So what do you think? Do you think the cons outweigh the pros? Or do the pros outweigh the cons?
Comments
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I would take the bonus bloodpoints, heck, you do not even need to tell me which ones were in a SWF.
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No. There are no positives to revealing who was in a SWF after the match is over. Many players already attribute their losses to playing against SWF instead of attributing their losses to mistakes they made.
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I would like to know if they were in a swf, but i don't want compensation if I got bodied by a 4 stack. I get put in an uncomfortable position if I asked if they were a 4 stack. And I wouldn't even have the chance to ask if they were all console players.
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Of course we should. But that's a genuine QoL change, and we know how much BHVR despises QoL changes.
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sure why not
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Sure why not? Im always curious when I play killer. And as Solo Q survivor I finally dont get accused as liar if they ask me "SWF?" and I answer "no Im solo"
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Oh yeah. I've been called a liar too.
Take it as a compliment I guess 🤷♀️
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Extra BP would be nice. I'm not sure if knowing would make things better or worse. Some killers can deal with it a lot better than others. Some will find it beneficial knowledge, some will just use that information for their next toxic tirade.
btw, you may not have been part of a swf, but the other 3 could have been. You can't always tell whether it is 3 or 4. If you are being rescued and the other 3 swarm on the killer, it may look to them like you are part of the swf.
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Wouldn't being able to see at the end that they weren't against a SWF lessen that?
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why not
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No. It's not relevant information regarding outcomes in the vast majority of skill levels and would only place a target on players who are just playing with friends.
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How would it place a target?
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I get a lot of killers in postgame chat that rage about "SWF" when I was in solo queue. A lot of killers carry the mindset that the only reason they ever lose a game is because of SWF. It would be a terrible idea to point out who is in a SWF to those players.
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I forget what game it was, but it would put different colored borders around those grouped together. I SWF and I wouldn't mind it. But I also don't care. And I play 50 / 50 killer and survivor.
However, I welcome your pipe dream reasoning. I really like that.
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The people who use SWF as a scapegoat for the reason they lost would just find some other excuse if it was proven to them that there was no SWF.
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Hmmm. I get your concern.
The way I see it, those people are going to do that regardless. But when they see they weren't against a SWF, it could at least prevent them from coming on here after a game saying "I just played against the sweatiest 4 man SWF ever, nerf self care!!!" (That last part was a sad joke). And if they got a BP reward, I wonder if it would lessen the animosity from those people. I don't know though.
But regardless, people like that are the ones I take with a grain of salt. Loud and thin-skinned doesn't mean you're (general "you're" not you specifically) right. It means you're loud and thin-skinned. Nothing more. And no amount of snark, raging, or toxic behavior will make their opinion magically true. So when I think of it that way, I'm leaning more towards "Yeah, let's see who's in the SWF." I'm not going to base my actions on placating people like that. If they can't handle it, that's honestly their problem.
Still, someone might have a valid reason for not showing who's in a SWF that I just haven't considered. So while I now lean towards yes, I'm still undecided.
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Le sigh. Human ingenuity... you're probably right.
Still, it would be nice to no longer hear "[BAD WORD] you and your sweaty SWF!" all the time. I actually had to stop watching a streamer because every time he lost, he raged it was because they must be SWF.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Fair point.
Personally, I wouldn't care when I play SWF if the Killer knows, especially if there's some sort of BP compensation for the Killer after. But you're right. Some people won't want that to be known.
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Yeah, I know that feeling. Had a streamer earlier rage about “sweaty gen-rushing SWF” and when I checked everyone’s profile, not one of us was on each other’s friend lists so we were all solo players.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
lol maybe it was the same guy 😆
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I literally lol'd at : "However, I welcome your pipe dream reasoning."
I'm mostly a solo queue Survivor, but when I play SWF I wouldn't mind the Killer knowing it either. Someone said some people wouldn't want Killers to know they're SWF because then they can't pretend they're "gods." So maybe people who are mostly SWF would have the most problem with it.
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I’ve legit had squads lie and say they were solo, only for me to load them up on twitch and see they’re 3-4 man stacked with discord on talking smack. The positives to this is just clarity.
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You don't think there are advantages in game to play with friends on coms over solo and no coms?
Just because you choose to play with your friends doesn't mean i want to. You can go into kyf all you want and have fun with your friends there.
Swf needs to be duo only for ranked and 4 man for kyf or a casual mode.
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Yeah that's [BAD WORD]. Take it as a compliment. They didn't have the balls to tell you the truth.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
It would be nice to know you only lost because of the power of swf, but survivor mains don’t want this because they won’t be able manipulate the numbers on how strong and common swf is.
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Survivor here. I play mostly solo queue, but from time to time I play SWF (with a highly skilled team). I wouldn't care if the Killer knew we were SWF post game. We've had our a**es handed to us by good Killers plenty of times, and we don't win just because we're SWF either. It's an advantage to be on comms, but it's not a guarantee. So I don't agree that "you only lost because of the power of swf." There's more to it than that. But, with that being said, I can agree that some people feel the way you described in your last line. And I don't agree with that mentality at all. And if people try to say, "Well yeah, but the Killer is going to talk sh*t when they see they beat a SWF so I don't want to let them know we were in a SWF," who cares what that player thinks? That Killer can p*ss off. There's little worse in a game than a sore winner.
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Post game lobby it would be fine. I would like to know as a solo survivor if people were in a SWF.
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Agreed. It would have to be post. Pre-game would cause too many lobby dodges.
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Yes.
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Absolutely.
I don't think there is any valid reason for not showing it after the game honestly, or maybe its better to say that the positives clearly outweigh any negatives. Even if there are some players that may somehow turn it into a negative thing (don't know how you could do that), I believe it would be an incredibly small minority of the player base. So small that it would make zero sense to give them any recognition and punish the vast majority by not adding it. I can't stand the mentality of "someone might abuse the system so no one should get it", that crap brings me back to elementary school where the whole class wouldn't get recess because one kid acted up.
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Agreed. Having tact and judgment about possible negative outcomes is one thing. Placating "babies" because they're a bunch of loud mouths is another.
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I must be the only killer who really doesn't care about to care to find out pre-game or post-game. I also don't want extra BP for people playing with friends, because most of the time you already get more bp than survivors do in the first place...
I hate this excuse. KYF gets boring. You don't get the variety or randomness that comes with online with various skill levels, killers, etc. Also, have you ever played a kwf with 2-3 people? Literally no point.
Full disagree swf should only be duo. And full disagree there should be a 'casual mode' because this is a casual game already. Ranks are especially meaningless now.
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I don't think I'd care either way. Most of the time I'll queue up, not pay attention to survivors in the lobby, then turn my attention back to my screen after I heard the heartbeat sound of the match starting. After the game ends, I check perks, think about if I could work on something, then start a new game up.
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Killers grossly over exaggerate how many games are good coordinated swf.
Some times (rarely) Ill sync well with soloq players and get accused of swf.
Its also worth pointing out that many swf groups are just friends having fun. Live or die they dont really care. That gets missed alot by killers too, when they whine about swf.
The devs should have had an 'opt out' for killers who dont want swf. Because killers, to this day, whine about that one game 30 games ago, where they were owned by an swf group.
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We should see it after the game, but we never will.
As someone already mentioned before, this is a quality of life change and that BHVR hates more than giving out bloodpoints.
This game doesnt even have brightness settings ffs
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You'd think it would, but players lack that kind of maturity and would just find another scapegoat.
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I asked myself "why not?".
And came up with nothing. There's not a single downside to it
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Yes.
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To clarify, would you be indifferent to knowing, or do you actually not want to know?
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No because there is always an excuse in this game and for some reason most of the players have this ego like theyre the best to ever play the game and they would rather insult and make excuses than admitting they made mistakes that cost them the match
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I agree with that (my pipe dream from the OP)
But the specific line I was responding to was: "Many players already attribute their losses to playing against SWF instead of attributing their losses to mistakes they made."
So seeing it wasn't a SWF, they at least won't complain that it was a SWF. Sure, they will still complain. But it won't be because of SWF. In that case it'll be, "Survivor perk OP nerf now" or "The map sucks."
Are these people going to admit their own shortcomings? Probably not. But should the rest of us not have something just because a thin-skinned person can't handle it? That's where I have a problem. Loud mouths are going to be loud regardless, we shouldn't placate them.
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I agree with that I'm just fed up with all the adult children in this community that have the ego I was speaking of, anything and everything you did in game was toxic and you dishonored their family by escaping and now they have to let you know about it lol
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"you dishonored their family" lol thank you for that haha
And I agree with you. 👍
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I'm more leaning to not wanting to know? In the long run, would it even matter knowing? It doesn't change the outcome of the bad match. If you had a bad match, it won't make you feel any better and just causes more divisive posts to be put on here/reddit/wherever that says nerf swf. On a good match I can see it promoting people just saying ez.
I see the argument of showing swf at post-game screen to show killers that complain about swf all the time to show that not all swfs are oracle or agony and they face them more times than not, but I just see it more as a negative than a positive.
edit: when I say divisive, I mean the us vs them mentality (survivor vs killer or killer vs survivor) that is in so many posts
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I see no harm in telling us "After" a match is over. If I get my ass handed to me and I find out it was a swf. I wouldn't feel so bad. Though if they were to do that then killers would have a way of actually tracking how many times we run into a swf. Then all those counter arguments about "Not everyone is in a swf" would be proven false or true.
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Basically you're saying there's no downside to OP's proposition because those who use scapegoats will do so anyway.
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Yes, i have been saying for the longest killers should get bonus BP based on the size of the SWF. At the very least give them something for their headaches. Also I agree- show who was SWF post game.
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i wouldn't mind it honestly, would give people who constantly complain about SWF a massive slice of humble pile when they lose to 4 solos
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I admit I have a hard time trying to argue against not knowing who SWF's are post game. Only post game though.
Just like revealing the killers loadout too early I feel revealing who are in a SWF to the killer too early gives too much in game information.
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At the very least.
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