Why the Tunnel? They must
The average killer pretty much must tunnel someone down to start a semblance of a fair match. It's bonkers.
It's really not fun; killer is so hard now. Too hard for me, apparently (to get a jump on the "git gud" kids). I suppose bunk ass BHVR lost another killer.
Comments
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Uhh killers the easiest it's ever been.
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Man, I am an above average Killer then. Have to tell my mom that I am above average in something!
Seriously, Killers dont have to tunnel, they decide to do that. If I can play the game without tunneling, many other players will also be able to do so, but refuse to do that. Because getting the game to a 3v1 early is a guaranteed victory. But a more boring one IMO.
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Great flex. Next.
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Correct. And only thing thats easier, is survivor
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I’m having no issue playing clown without tunnelling. I’m not even that good
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Yh, MMR really lets you decide how you want to play. But im not even sure that everyone, who complains, is high mmr. There are many killer, who overestimate themself.
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Yes they must tunnel at 5 gens with nurse, ruin undying and corrupt still up on shelter woods. Good one
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I try my best not to tunnel and play "fair", but when I notice the gens are popping a bit too fast then I have no other choice than to kill someone ASAP. If survivors want to rush the gens, then I want to rush a kill.
Unfortunately due to SBMM, that situation is happening a lot more and it's getting quite boring and annoying.
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With mmr? Nah. I know that is like the survivor catch phrase, but it definitely got more challenging for high mmr players. Even if the game used to have infinites for whatever screwed up reason. Killers relied a lot on potatoes being in the lobby, but now, there are far less of those in any given game because I get them all to myself. Yummy!
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Tunneling is not a must, it is a choice. Especially nowadays with MMR.
It is really done because one is applying an arbitrary number of kills to define a win.
Play for fun , play how you would like to verse , and the game does chill out a bit.
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Smart killers know how to play around DS and not just the usual wait 60 seconds and whatnot. When you confirmed that they touched pretty much any interaction in the game since it disables the perk they're free real estate to tunneling lol.
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I mean if you're not that good, why tunnel out people and artificially inflate your MMR? If you don't want to play like this, play like you did and you'll NORMALLY be adjusted to lesser-skilled teams that you can handle with your favoured playstyle. Although that's if MMR works, but I doubt many people are trying this approach.
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Because with current system u can basically afk every 2nd game to get some fun in next one and this is stupid.
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That is a fair statement. Took me awhile to get there
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It is a must on killers who don't have a good map pressure or not good against 4v1. Simple reason:
If you don't tunnel survivors are absolutely not pressured, because they feel safe, because they still have a hook state remaining. So they just push gens. They don't even heal, they don't go for protection hits to save the dead-on-hook guy (because there is noone dead on hook), one survivor to unhook is enough who immediately heals the unhooked person (they don't need to coordinate a heal later, and the other two can sit on gens).
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Then sweat you ass off and enjoy the tasty 4ks!!!
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Not really
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Talks about the real issue in the game. Get's banned. No wonder the game is so damn survivor sided.
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You don't have to AFK. Just play how you enjoy instead of sweating unpleasantly, you'll eat L's but it's L's against teams you probably don't want to face anyway. You don't need to AFK, just play the way you find most fun.
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Correct but incorrect...
See survivor is easier than killer but when u play solo queue killer seems pus** smoke compared to hell I mean solo queue
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There's not a big choice u have there. No matter u do u will face sweaty squad at some point and tunneling their weakling is a must if u want to secure 1-2 kills overall. Otherwise it's 4 man escape.
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It is all about how the survivors play and what opportunities they present, mindlessly tunneling will not work on better survivors and especially SWF. In the same manner that avoiding it at all costs won't work on them either.
Tunnel, slug, camp, gen patrol and when to give up on a chase or a gen... deciding where, when and how to apply pressure is what will make you a better killer.
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The survivors good/efficient enough that you'd "need" to tunnel will generally also punish it the most, while you sweat for the 1k and eat through BT, DS etc they'll smash out gens.
The survivors where the whole team falls to pieces the minute you start focussing one of them aren't the type of team where you need to tunnel to win, so again, pointless.
Slugging is necessary sometimes, tunnelling is something you should grow out of after your first few games of frosty eyes wraith.
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No you do not need to do that. It is more important to get chases back to back to build pressure. Tunneling is just a bad way to build pressure because you have to go out of your way to do it.
The most efficient Killers are those who can enter a new chase seconds after hooking a survivor. Examples are Freddy, Oni or Wraith. And yes I know, Freddy is as entertaining as watching pain dry but his teleport makes him very time efficient which gives him a huge leader over Killers like Ghostface and Myers.
However I understand that Killers will not shy away from tunneling somebody if they get unhooked just like that and 5 meters away from them. The rescuer has an obligation to get the Killers attention and not hide in the corner...yes I am looking at you, Claudette...
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It is a must on killers who don't have a good map pressure or not good against 4v1. Simple reason:
If you don't tunnel survivors are absolutely not pressured, because they feel safe, because they still have a hook state remaining. So they just push gens. They don't even heal, they don't go for protection hits to save the dead-on-hook guy (because there is noone dead on hook), one survivor to unhook is enough who immediately heals the unhooked person (they don't need to coordinate a heal later, and the other two can sit on gens).
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i understand tunneliing when its done in a later state of the game, but we all know there's a surge in tunneling and camping going on.
What i notice more and more are, survivors are fed up with it and stop playing...suicide or dc, and i'm one of them....if 3 survivors are one the ground before the first minute is over then this is not gonna be a fun game. I truely wish that we can all remember just to have some fun, and like many survivors stated, i and others dont need to get out of the exit gate...we just want the chance in some chases, do some objective and have some fun. And yes, i'm one of those survivors who would give myself for a kill to a un experienced killer that had zero hooks
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You're going to eat L's if your skill isn't sufficient to compete against the opponent. The fact of the matter is that good players that also stream have shown that tunnelling/camping early isn't necessary in most cases, and with MMR they rarely have to if they're running a decent build (Players like Otz end up struggling with meme builds sometimes). So it's quite clear that if you're not at the right skill level, you should expect to lose. But if your situation leads you to the perspective of 'I must tunnel to have a chance', chances are you're simply not as good as other killers who are comfortable at this level without these tactics. If you like to use this playstyle then that's fine, but if you don't, then it is best you let yourself adjust to a lower skill bracket. Better teams will always beat a tunnelling killer anyway unless they're some sort of comp player.
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I dont see the issue.....what's wrong with tunneling?
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You and every survivor main that claims tunneling isn't necessary against top teams are full of it. There are several games where you can see OTZ tunnel, respond to unhooks in ways some would call tunneling, hell even camps occasionally.
You're still using the same old shaming tactics that don't work anymore. We have enough evidence from DBD tournaments (lol) where all the killers camp and tunnel because at a certain point that is the most effective way of ensuring at least a 2k amongst the BEST survivors. This is with them playing killers like Nurse and Spirit.
In high MMR, it may not always be necessary, obviously that isn't the case, but to talk about tunneling like it's, say Stretch Resolution (which you survivor-mostly players always find some BS way to defend) is a falsehood. It is a sometimes necessary tool, and people should stop trying to imply it as a skill-less action. It's no less skilled than anything regarding rushing gens with BNP, the only skill based interactions in this game are chase based.
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Gen speeds aren't the issue, the maps and RNG are an issue are however, that I can agree. But it doesn't stop the fact that matched with similarly skilled opponents, you should be at least performing decently. It takes a Haddonfield or Cowshed to truly feel oppressive.
Do you know who I am and what my gameplay habits truly are? Do you have some sort of insight about me that I certainly not shared willingly on here? If not, then you're just maliciously assuming things to denigrate my opinion. Which leads me to believe yours is probably nothing worth recognizing. Since you're comparing average games to tournaments and referencing Otz's sweaty streak habits that he apologized for often times during gameplay, then I guess I'm right to save my energy, lol.
To re-iterate my opinion from before, you're free to tunnel if you feel like that's your only option, but unless this is the top of the top, I'm convinced it's unnecessary with enough game sense and skill. Besides, as one poster said, the truly dangerous survivor groups punish tunnelling/camping like no other, and those without the skillset (and right killer) to face them will lose regardless.
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I never said there wasn't still work to be done. All I'm saying is it's far easier than it used to be, and claiming tunneling is a must is a weak excuse.
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I'm using context from your own comment to come to a conclusion about your behavior. If you're the type of player to cal out tunneling as unnecessary across the board, or using it as a gauge for player skill, you're the type of player that isn't as concerned with one side of the game over another. You're whole comment was disingenuous from the start. You're just doubling down by claiming the best killers never or hardly use the tactic.
Whether you chose to engage with what I said or not matters very little to me, as I wasn't directly addressing you with all parts of the comment(which is where I believe your comment about me making indictments about the way you play came from). My point about survivor-favored players making these types of claims is just as true as it was 3-4 years ago. If you're the type to complain about it as a competitive strategy, if you're the type to acknowledge that at top levels, only nurse and Spirit are universally viable, and still sit there and shot on people who tunnel when necessary, you are literally showing your bias, and the discussion can end there.
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Tunneling isn't a must for any killer.
It's a must for players who've artificially capped their skill ceiling by choosing to blame others for their own lack of competence.
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Which is why top level streamers and tourney players so do it... Mhm totally not a biased opinion
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Of course survivor is gonna be a little easier. As killer you're against 4 other players.. It's meant to be the tougher role. That will never change.
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If you play at a farily average/low mmr yes. Play high mmr and you will sweat every trials.
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indeed, they do it against top level survivors....not always by the way, some potato teams that end up in there games get the same medicine, and do you also watch the clips when they play survivor and end up on the other end of the stick....hmmm they dont like it as much as you might think....since its legit stategy right.
the point that many survivors are making who are not on the top level of this game is the fact that it happens 3 out of 4 games from the start of a game with no swf teams to destroy, and when a group of solo players just want a fun game and is destroyed like that.....not cool
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BHVR has a lot to rework.
Some maps should be smaller.
Ruin as it is now should be a vanilla built in system in the gens, it shouldn't be a perk. 200% is too high if it's built in though. 150% should be good enough.
30% of pallets must be removed. Half windows should be locked.
And then we will start to get something more balanced.
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"Top level streamers" aren't particularly good players. Truly optimal play is pretty boring, regardless of game: you don't get a following for pure success, you get a following for near misses, close failures, and enough savvy to spin a narrative. Plus, when "top level streamers" also call out how laughably fallacious that narrative is, that argument is proven just as silly as the people who fall for it.
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Ok, so what does any of that have to do with what I said? I didn't remark on all top level streamers being amazing.
That wasn't the point. The best streamers still use tunneling and camping, do they not? Optimal play may be boring for many, but that isn't the point either. We're doing everything to deny the fact that at the end of the day, what I said was correct. If you want to win consistently, there are times you will need to tunnel, and possibly even camp, as much as someone else online might not like it..
Aso, I only ever use the streamers argument because so many of you here like to sight them as the top experts of DBD. Frankly idgaf of OTz shows videos of him losing constantly or not (although he is personally my fav DBD streamer), that doesn't take away from his wins and what he does to achieve them, and he's got as many hours as anyone playing this game.
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Fixing gen speeds and map designs does not address proxy-tunneling/face-camping. In fact, gen speeds are fast because proxy-tunneling/face-camping exist.
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It has to do with what you said because you brought them up as an example of people who use these tactics - and my point is that these people, regardless of following, are poor examples of anything. What you said is correct, these people use those tactics: and my point stands that they're wrong to do so. If you want to win, which by BHVR standards is a 2k: no, you don't need to tunnel or camp. You are, in fact, giving up on the potential for more if the survivors involved have a lick of sense.
I wouldn't 'cite' OTz as a top expert of DBD, nor most of the names I see put forth as 'proof' of something an individual takes issue with, and I'd laugh at those who did - they're experts in content creation, not in gameplay. If any content creators are 'experts', it'll be the dataminers and white hats reporting on exploits. Their credibility is further hit by fellow content creators calling out the hypocrisy and inconsistency of people who pretend that tunnels and camps are necessary.
Understanding why someone has a following, and the bias inherent to all content creation, is important for understanding why they may be a particularly bad source for examples.
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Kill rate of 70%~80% here and I don't tunnel. Majority of my matches I get 3/4 BBQ stacks before hooking somebody the 2nd time.
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I've kept track of my kills/escapes and it's hovering around 62%, killer favored.
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The problem with your whole argument is it presumes 2 incorrect positions
1. That I only mentioned top level streamers, which I didn't, I also said tournament players.
2. That no DBD streamers are great, or in fact, tournament level players of the game.
You explicitly call out OTz as not being a great killer, which is your opinion to have, but he's a really good killer by most people's approximation. And what about players like Zubat? There are plenty of examples that upend your argument on that base alone, but you still haven't addressed the fact that tourney players do the same thing in most cases, with the best killers(or best campers).
Of course most of these players aren't the general player base, but there are plenty of good survivors that aren't on a tournament team, and that's what so many content creators were comparing about MMR for, it's not literally just the same four survivors they would play, they would just be playing against a run of the mill optimal SWF group game after game that would negatively affect their content.
And lastly, 2K is not necessarily a win, that's a draw
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Why does it matter?
I mean, if you feel you need to tunnel, they're obviously better than you and that's to be expected. If it's happening to you often, you need to get better.
Understand I don't think there's anything wrong with Tunneling - it's a personal choice either way. Survivors who dislike it just need to be better about forcing trades.
But trying to shame people into not tunneling is as silly as pissing into the wind.
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Let's break this down like you did:
- I only commented on streamers because tournament play isn't a typical sandbox experience, and while some tournament players do play with toxic tactics they're not consistently doing well and many have more in their arsenal than what is essentially the "give up for cruise control" method. It's not something rewarded in real play except by the braindead or uncaring.
- For your second strawman, there's not much to address: the pretense that because tournament play and tournament players show this style proves it has merit is inherently wrong. Content is content, and especially tournament play is made worse when one side is simply optimal versus engaging.
- As for the last thing - I agree that a 2k isn't a real win, but BHVR has stated differently. My personal definition of a win varies, but it's more based on whether I think I did well or improved a particular skill - we all have different metrics, and I'll take a 1k where I think everyone did well over a 4k where the other team performed sub-par.
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If you're the type of player to call out tunnelling as unnecessary across the board ..
Let me correct you right here as you've already lied.
Here is my post that mentions necessity of tunnelling, allow me to quote the only element that may have a relation to your fabricated idea.
The fact of the matter is that good players that also stream have shown that tunnelling/camping early isn't necessary in most cases
So, since when is 'tunnelling/camping early' a broad claim? It refers to killers opting to use these strategies right off the bat rather than as a sort of reaction to their situation (Gens popping quick in bad map, no 3 gen, skilled team with weak link ...). This is pretty specific, and certainly doesn't cover reasons killers opt to tunnel when pressured.
Now that we've established you've, at the very least, used hyperbole to misrepresent me knowingly, I will say that we agree on the fact that tactics such as tunnelling have their place without necessarily being a sort of mindset like some have here. Camping endgame isn't some sweat tactic, nor is tunnelling when put in a position where it's the only game-saving move.
If we're allowed to make assumptions off one another, you've clearly given me the impression that you are part of this scourge that consistently divides survivors and killers as if they're two different species. The community would be infinitely better if individuals like you treated 'mains' as you'd call them with a bit more empathy, which ironically you call me out for lacking consideration for the other side.
Here's the sad truth for you: I'm a decent killer player, and when queues don't suck I play killer more often. And no, I do not need to tunnel early. And when I'm brought to tunnel, 4/5 times it's due to my own misplays. I do not deny there are balance issues and better players than me in the opposing side. But you know what? After 2k hours of this game and playing in the same goddamn maps for a long time, I think I'm capable of adapting and turning the tides despite some odds stacked against me.
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I’m sure tunneling has probably increased because killer matches have been a sweatfest. Gotta do anything to get a kill.
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Yeah, no. I can tell you from experience with Pinhead that this does not happen.
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