HOLD W META EFFECTIVENESS
Killer stun after a successful hit = 3 seconds
Survivor boost speed = 2 seconds @ 6m/s = 12 meters
Remaining second distance = 4 meters
So after a hit, if the survivor goes straight, there is a 16 meters distance between the killer and the survivor
How long does a standard killer will need to catch up ?
T = D/V = 16/0,6 ~ 27 seconds
Add one dead hard to go to a pallet and the initial chase time, and you are around 70/80 seconds without any skill requirement.
Comments
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Blight is really effective at catching W gamers.
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Nurse will outpace
Blight will outpace
Wraith will outpace
Billy will outpace
Victor will outpace
Spirit will outpace
Oni with Demon Dash will outpace
Freddy will teleport in front of them
Demo will teleport in front of them and can close an 11 meter gap as it's attack.
Hag will teleport on top of them and hit them
Huntress will snipe
Deathslinger will pull
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That's considering every killer is Trapper without traps and maps are just infinite flat lands like the Abyss on Dark Souls.
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lol bs for most of them.
Wraith, you can abuse pallet and force him to uncloak before breaking it, gaining time and drawing distance.
Billy will outpace but is totally weak in loops
Spirit will outpace but see nothing and you have other things to work around.
Oni with Demon Dash will outpace but is easy to counter aswell in small angles.
Freddy will teleport in front of them : nope, you can see when he teleports, doesn't work
Demo will teleport in front of them, nope again, you hear him when teleporting and he has to find or create a tunnel to do so (loosing time). The jump is a fail attack and stuns him 1,5 seconds, drawing more distance (6 meters)
Huntress will snipe, hatchet are easy to avoid, especially at those distances.
Deathslinger will pull, same as huntress.
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They are infinite flat lands. You can literally cross the map on every map without any problem. If you face a SWF that hold W in every chase, you won't do anything with most killers. It happens rarely but some SWF does it and it's impossible to counter.
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What about the 19 killers that don’t have the ability for an on-demand map traversal speed boost like Blight?
Hag and Demo is included in that # because their power isn’t guaranteed to be available at all times (Hag needs traps already set, and Demo’s portals are limited and aren’t really meant for chase).
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Except with:
Blight - Rush speed = 9.2m/sec
Nurse - Blinks
Wraith - Cloaked speed = 6m/sec
Spirit - Phase walk = 7.04m/sec
Oni - Demon Dash = 7.82m/sec
Legion - Frenzy = 5.2m/sec
Executioner - Ranged
Deathslinger - Ranged
Billy - Chainsaw= 9.2m/sec
Huntress - Ranged
Bubba - Chainsaw = 5.29m/sec
Hag - teleports
Clown - Tonic reduces survivor run speed by 5%
Freddy - Teleports AND Dream snare reduces survivor run speed by 15%
Demogorgon - Shred = 18.4m/sec
Trickster - Ranged
Plague - Ranged Corrupt Purge
Twins - Victor run speed = 6m/sec
Cenobite - Chains negate sprinting
But yes please tell me how killers have no way to negate holding W :)
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So a survivor hitting a pallet stun and then holding w beats a killer eating a pallet and then also just holding w?
Sure, the survivor play isn't some high level MLG stuff, but you're also assuming the killer has no power or brain, of course they're going to have a rough time.
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Oni - Doesn’t always have Demon Dash available.
Legion - Frenzy is just used to injure. If you’re using Frenzy to “catch up” AFTER a first hit you’re probably a bad Legion.
Executioner - You still have to get in range by catching up.
Deathslinger - You still have to get in range by catching up. AND is a slow walker.
Huntress - You still have to get in range by catching up. AND is a slow walker.
Bubba - Why would you use Chainsaw to catch up? LOL.
Hag - depends on whether you have traps in the direction survivor is running. Also very slow killer.
Clown - Can negate a bit of the distance, but he still has to actually close the initial gap.
Freddy - Can only teleport to gens, not reliable for chasing.
Demogorgon - Shred isn’t good for covering distance on flat ground versus a straight Hold W gamer.
Trickster - You still have to get in range by catching up. AND is a slow walker.
Plague - Ranged in small intervals, still has to chase like an M1 killers.
Cenobite - Chains negate sprinting but the can be easily broken.
But yes please tell me how killers all perfectly equipped to negate holding W :)
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Cause you don't know what you are talking about as you only play surv :). I will leave you do the maths as you seem pretty smart.
Wraith - Cloaked speed = 6m/sec --> decloak can be abused at pallets
Spirit - Phase walk = 7.04m/sec --> 16 meters away, she phases, you walk, she doesn't know where you are
Oni - Demon Dash = 7.82m/sec --> does he have DD all the time ? and in the meantime you have found a pallet is he viable in loops ?
Legion - Frenzy = 5.2m/sec --> Frenzy doesn't last and just injure
Executioner - Ranged --> Slowed down when doing the spell, 8 meters only, we are far from the 16 meters, and aiming in straight line with it is impossible against a good survivor. Do you play him ? Ah no, okay. Come in private and try to hit me with the power in straight line, we will have plenty of time to discuss.
Deathslinger - Ranged - pretty easy to dodge, he is slower
Billy - Chainsaw= 9.2m/sec - chargin with chainsaw ? 90° angle and he has to stop and get another stun
Huntress - Ranged - easy to dodge at this distance - she is slower
Bubba - Chainsaw = 5.29m/sec - Bubba in straight line ? Ok baby survivor
Hag - teleports - ok for this one, if traps are set, she is slower though
Clown - Tonic reduces survivor run speed by 5% - ok, aim at 16 meters away
Freddy - Teleports AND Dream snare reduces survivor run speed by 15% - You hear and see when he is teleporting, snares are in loops, not in the middle of nowhere
Demogorgon - Shred = 18.4m/sec - BS, the jump is 11 meters and then he has a 1,5 stun :)
Trickster - Ranged - Ok, but he is weak in loops
Plague - Ranged Corrupt Purge - lol... i won't comment
Twins - Victor run speed = 6m/sec - ok for victor that doesn't see tracks, you knew it right ?
Cenobite - Chains negate sprinting - Cenobite is stopped while using the spell, actually it's a short range spell to be effective, use it at long range and it's a waste of time.
You should play killer and obviously improve as a survivor if you don't know that atm "Hold W" is the best way to survive as a survivor. And don't talk to me as a killer main, i'm a survivor main and i surely outplay you so you can keep your sarcasm and your lack of knowledge about how does playing killer works.
All the exemples you gave show clearly that you don't know how those killers' powers work. 😂
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W gamers counter Freddy, if he tries to teleport ahead of you make your read, and turn around or run a different way. Literally his biggest counter is holding W.
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Clown can use both bottles to gain a lot of distance too
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Nurse isn't as fast as you think. Holding W might be less effective compared to a 115% killer, but it's effective if she's not using omega blink.
That's Blight's main power, so no surprises there.
Wraith can do that (and it's helpful), but he has little anti-loop power, so basically holding W becomes secondary for the survivor.
Billy can cut the distance by a bit, but the 3 second cooldown will maintain some distance regardless. If there's clutter in the way, it'll become comical.
I have no idea why we're bringing up Victor. That'll happen only a very specific circumstance with the Twins.
If they're running to a gen, maybe, but under most circumstances, no. That, and they'd have to fall for an obvious trick. So no, still is a standard 115% killer in most circumstances.
Well you don't use Demo do you?
Hag doesn't chase, so that's irrelevant.
At a sweet spot. At a certain distance, the survivor can react. Also, with cover in the way, it's worse for her than the average killer.
Did you just list one of the biggest victims of the W key as one of the killers that counters it?
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So what I'm getting from this is, blight will probably be nerfed
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If survivors outplay you by holding W while you play Nurse then you probably aren't any good at playing her. Not trying to be rude, but it's a fact.
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They are...
They WILL catch up, even if only just a LITTLE bit quicker than a normal M1 killer. But that little time can make the difference.
It can get you that hit at a pallet, or it can get you an extra pallet down or broken.
And depending on the situation, you can corner the survivor at a pallet in the corner of the map.
You can also try not getting stunned, or run Enduring/Spirit Fury.
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For the DbD half players, you know, those playing only one side and knowing nothing about the game :).
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Psst I have played over 4k hours - with about 60% of that as killer. Please check my post history - I am a 50/50 killer who sides with killers and survivors on various issues. trying to paint me as a survivor main - shows your bias - not mine :)
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Then explain us how you win against a 4 "Hold W" survivor team :).
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You can't math. 1-blinking is the established meta for moving as Nurse. The total time taken for charging, max-range blinking, the chain-blink window, and fatigue, is 7 seconds. 2 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 2. 4.6 m/s X 7 seconds = 32.2m/s.
What does Nurse travel at? 2.89m/s * 2s = 5.78m. 20m for 1.5 seconds for blink. Chain blink window is 1.54m/s over 1.5 seconds to be 2.31m. The fatigue is .96m/s for 2 seconds at 1.92m. So, in 7 seconds, nurse travels 30.01m per 7 seconds assuming double recharge. Nurse only has map mobility with range add-ons. Think of her as a super Deathslinger that can move through walls.
I'd highly advice you investigate and understand what you're talking about before you talk trash to others. It's not a good look for you.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Movement_Speeds#The_Nurse
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Fun fact 1
during Legion's 4 seconds fatigue the survivor can again gain 16 meters of distance (slightly less as you aren't complety immobile during the fatigue) so it is very much not a good option vs holding w.
Fun fact 2
Fun facts are rarely fun
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On this forum, you will still have players going against the plain truth, with numbers and mathematics calculation.
In this community, some ppl are able to tell you that the earth is flat no matter the elements you will bring to prove that it's not.
Hold W is the most effective way to play as a survivor with some looping in-between to force the killer to loose time breaking a pallet.
I use it at high MMR and killers never catch me, they give up before catching up... If they don't give up, 3 to 4 gens will fly when they will end the chase.
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You mean Myers, Ghostface, Pig, Plague, yes, Trapper, Freddy, Bubba, Phead and maybe someone I´m forgetting? A significant portion of the roster is utterly helpless against shift+W. It´s kinda bonkers how lame and effective it is.
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Learn to use your powers as killer. Not saying that mean spiritedly.
I main Doctor, Pig, and Legion - only one of those has a movement advantage and I was rank 1 for 4+ years.
Oh and your Legion comment... Shows you do not play Legion.
I have no clue what killers you play or HOW you play, but if you find you are not having fun, are not doing well, etc with a specific killer - switch killers.
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Brrr... i was able to go straight from Rank 20 to rank 1 with trapper without loosing once. Being rank 1 for 4 years doesn't mean anything. Survivors were total potatoes.
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Fun fact - your math is wrong :) Legion still moves when fatigued at 2.07m/sec :) So survivors gain just under 8 meters UNLESS... fun fact you let them pallet stun you which immediately cancels frenzy with no fatigue. Just under 1,500 matches as Legion - so yeah I will take my experience over your erroneous math :)
Best way to use Frenzy to get a kill?? Beat them to the door/pallet/window - block - cancel Frenzy - attack! :)
People can make excuses or learn/adapt with each killer.
Let me clear: Holding W is a valid tactic just like camping and tunneling is a valid tactic. maybe stop focusing on how others play (killer and survivor alike) and focus on how you play. These idiotic threads about "metas"/tactics being bad/op are just that - idiocy. I don't give af what perks a killer or survivor uses, whether a killer tunnels or camps, whether a survivor holds W, What items survivors bring, what addons killers use, etc etc
Do I think Holding W is as "OP" as a lot of the killer mains on these forums like to portray - LOL No! Do I personally hold W?? If I need to get the killer away from a gen I got chased off - some - so someone else can go on it, but I will just hold W until I can find a good loop to run. I love when killers are so hyper focused on me or another survivor - because I know that we will win the match. As a new killer back in 2016 - I literally had a timer I would set so I did not stay in chase too long - because THAT is the problem with Holding W for killers - failing to recognize when to give up the chase.
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I still stand by my point that fan facts are rarely fun.
But fair lol, i did not know the exact movement speed of frenzy fatigue.
Thanks for sharing
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...But a lot of Killers counter this?
Nurse and Spirit can pretty much just land on top of you whenever they want.
Blight has amazing speed to catch up with Survivors with- so do Billy and Oni. (Who can both also insta-down, negating the M1's entirely in some scenarios.)
Bubba also has insta-down capabilities, allowing him to negate the M1 issue.
Wraith is chugging speed these days and can catch up to Survivors- allowing him to body block them from certain structures, or just leave them and come back to get them later in worse spots. (Which is what every Wraith seems to do these days anyway.)
Hag doesn't want to chase outside of her web, so it doesn't really matter for her.
Trapper is somewhat similar to Hag- it doesn't matter how much distance you get if you step in a trap near him.
Huntress doesn't have a long cooldown between Hatchets, and can snipe from a distance. Plague can do something similar with Corrupt Purge up (Along with not having to worry about the speed boost issue as much due to making Survivors broken, if memory serves correctly.) Deathslinger can still snipe from a distance as well- even if it's not as well.
Viktor can out run a Survivor.
Myers and Ghostie, while not strong Killers by any means, also have insta-down capabilities.
And STBFL exists, allowing multiple hits quickly with max stacks.
Idk, I agree that holding W can be a crappy thing to verse depending on the Killer, but at the same time, I don't think it's awful? I mean, I just think it's a part of a Killer's job to also know when to drop chase or realize when they spent too long on something, and considering how many Killers that can quite literally ignore many aspects of it or don't really care, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
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I play survivor & killer.
I know that when i hold W, most killers (high mmr) give up and stops the chase or they loose a ton of time.
As a killer, it's exactly the same, you see the survivor 18 meters away, you know you will need a ton of time to catch up. And then you will have to face a pallet loop. Well...
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Honestly just play ranged killers. Its much more worth
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A lot of those teleport strats are circumstantial. But yeah, generally speaking the high tier killers and ranged killers can deal with it. I think the issue is more for the rest of the killers, fam.
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Myers, Ghostface and Pig are stealth killers, you can't hold W against someone you do not see coming. Myers and Ghostface can also instadown so they halve chase time.
Plague is a borderline instadown killer with her infection, and Corrupt Purge is a ranged.
Bubba instadowns, if you have Chilli + Beast Marks you can literally catch up to a Sprint Burst.
The other ones do suffer more against holding W, but Freddy compensates that with his teleport and Pyramid is amazing at tunneling.
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Not to be on anyone's side but those maths aren't wrong, what the OP is basically saying is that hold W requires no skill for the value that it gives
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Tell that to the Spine Chill users.
And their chase times are good, but you have to account for all the awkward set up and staring to even activate the instadowns. It is not like they are some wildly efficient killers.
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Spine Chill only tells you the killer is approaching, it doesn't tell the direction. I play a lot of Ghostface and Wraith and the amount of times survivors literally run into me is astonishing.
Never said they were efficient, I'm just against people who say holding W is automatic win, instead of admiting they are simply not good with those killers.
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Maybe I just get unlucky... I never get them to run into me. Like, ever.
It happens with Freddy for some reason. Never Ghostface. I think it happens on Wraith and Pig relatively frequently. I always assumed it was because she is so slow, or that he is so fast. Idk.
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Holding W is another symptom of terrible balance.
If maps were smaller and better made, it wouldn't be much of a problem. But that's far from the only thing that'd need to be fixed before the game suddenly becomes good.
Don't blame people for using an effective tactic, blame BHVR for not actually fixing anything.
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What's the proposal for a solution?
Post edited by Marc_go_solo on1 -
Plus a smart player will just leave the chase and apply pressure to gens.
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While true, objects block the path as well and getting near dead zones means arcing, while also possibly running through other survivors. Lack of pallets/safe areas as the game goes on also changes the distance you can really get from the killer.
The first chases can seem like eons though, I like to use that time to clear pallets/check for unsafe areas to zone survivors into later. Especially if that area becomes where the remaining gens are end game.
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Holding W has always been an option in this game
Only reason that people are taking it seriously now is because a certain influencer starting prattling on about it and the mindless masses are just parroting it.
Survivors need a way to widen the gap between hits, end of story. Deal with it.
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there is no talking about pallet stun in first post. There is talking about killer getting "stunned" after hiting survivor (weapon animation) and survivor gaining spring burst
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Not before Pig though. From all of this he devs probably find a reason to nerf pig first.
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All these complaints about holding W are stupid, what else are survivors supposed to do? Kindly wait at an unsafe loop for the killer to catch up?
Post edited by Laurie268 on1 -
Holding W is insta win with a coordinated team. You don't need more to win a game. If all 4 survivors hold W in every chases and the others are doing gens, it's a win, period.
There are so many SWF abusing it and when they end up in a jungle gym or in a loop they can't do anything and they are outplayed in 15 seconds. But by holding W, they can make the chase long enough to get the final win.
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It's not parroting, every high skilled survivors and SWF uses it. In the evening in EU, at high MMR it's full of Hold W survivors and it works perfectly.
And no, it's the developers' job to force interactivity between both side and holding W is not and interaction, there is nothing fun about it.
Tell me where is the skill involved there ?
Chase are 50/60 seconds long. They have just hold W. All 4 survivors doing it in all chases ? 12 minutes without any mindgame or skill involved. Go straight forward.
How can you say it's healthy for the game ?
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Do you even play killer?
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No he doesn't as most of the ppl replying "killers have to deal with it".
That's what is boring on this forum, ppl playing one side only and thinking that they know better than those who play both sides what is balanced or not, what is fair or not.
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LEGION WILL OUTPACE
BRUH
Gunslinger has range. 1 hit sprint boost + 1 pallet to break, look at the distance between the killer and the survivor... continuing the chase is impossible.
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Another one
And this survivor is really bad, bumping into walls and loosing a ton of time doing so.
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