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SWF nerf?
Since you guys are nerfing one of the best killers, wouldnt it only be fair if you nerf swf? Since the new mmr system i encounter swf teams a lot more often and to be honest i get destroyed almost every time.
Comments
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This has been talked here a lot of times. Punishing players for playing together isn't a good idea. The best solution would be to buff Solo Queue information and killers in general.
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Expect them to finally apply community suggestions, of buffing solo with for example aura reading perks made base kit to compensate for coms and buffing killer in general accordingly, when hell begins to freeze over.
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my suggestion would just have one perk for a swf squad basically every survivor needs to have different perks. If you're solo you won't have a limit cause you ain't in a swf. So if you have a swf in your game and you're the solo player the limit won't affect you.
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I think a simple indicator for players that are playing together would be a huge help. At least that way you know what kind of game you're going into as the Killer, and can bring a build to help counter that.
The upcoming game VHS was designed with voice chat, which is one of the many reasons why streamers have stated that it feels far more balanced than DBD. DBD was not designed with voice chat, which I think says a lot about how the game was technically supposed to be played. You have to rely on outside apps to communicate with one another, and sadly nothing has been done to help counter that for Killers. It's why so many professional teams like Oracle have been so successful.
Simply put, either let Killers know that they're playing with a SWF, or as others have suggested, buff solo queue survivors.
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I never got the idea to nerf SWF. It’s a big part of the game’s success. Better thing to do is buff solos and buff killers in some way.
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Why nerf SWF because one killer is being rebalanced? Not all killers are Spirit players vs SWF teams. Seems like a kneejerk reaction to some much-needed changes.
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They are just frustrated. Not thinking straight because of the salt, you know?
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I'm sorry you can't stand still to mind game anymore 🙄
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Your suggestion would kill the game because not every SWF is team oracle or the depip squad and with a change like that people would either drop the game or do like before swf and keep queing up as a solo until they got their friends in the group and then que times would be an hour long for the killer.
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A good way to know which games i can evade I dont mind if swf or not i just wanna have fun
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No doubt there will be killers dodging certain lobbies, but I think that's a risk worth taking. Even if you were to bring perks that could limit the survivors aura readings, they can still fall back to their comms, which breaks almost anything a killer can bring into a match.
I've been watching streams recently from Tru and Dowsey, and watching them play at high MMR against teams on comms has been a huge sweat fest for them. Dowsey played for 3 hours earlier today, and there were many a killer match that he got destroyed on because their communication was so good.
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I mean, if most killers prefer to infinitely dodge lobbies and spend 30 minutes in a queue instead of going against SWF then I guess it is an indicator that there is a problem with that on the first place.
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Maybe because it was one of the only three killers who were viable against a good squad.
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How would you nerf SWF without simultaneously nerfing any solo players that they are with? You literally cannot nerf SWF without any knock on effects to solo players.
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They are nerfing one of 3 killers out of 20+ that can do decently against optimal survivor teams. Why would they nerf one of the only killers that can do this? The viable killer pool for facing optimal survivors is sooooo small already. Why not buff more killers up to that level first before nerfing one of only 3 killers at that level? That is the whole issue. All but 3 killers are a laughing stock against survivor teams that play to win. Now it is possibly going to be 2 out of 20+ if her nerf is too much.
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How could they enforce this is they wanted to? I don't know about the other platforms, but on Xbox party chat is entirely separate from any game being played. Heck we all could be on different games and be in the same voice chat. And I believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way. I imagine PlayStation is similar.
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Why would you nerf the only thing that can barely win? I know genrushing teams are not fun, but blame the devs for nerfing survivors so much and buffing killers so much that survivors have figured out genrushing is the only way to possibly get out.
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BHVR: "Oh so you ask for community feedback? Taking that in consideration pinhead chains now breaks faster and nurse blink can't go trough walls."
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I wonder of what metta you are talking about... 2016? (cof... KEYS nerf?)
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Maybe because this killer is one of the few many that can barely match SWF competitives? Raise your MMR and play trapper, you will get it.
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I was going to ask if you were serious but then I saw it was Sluzzy. Nevermind.
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The game is balanced around bad survivors. SWF groups are one of their main crutches. I highly doubt you'll ever see a direct SWF nerf.
For the record, I'm not anti-swf. I think it was a massive mistake on the devs part to create an online multi-player game and design it entirely around solo play and without a group play feature.
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Except MOST killers don't do that.
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I agree slightly yes Gen repair speeds need to be reworked especially for SWF teams. I faced a SWF team this morning and around 3 mins they finished 3 gens at end game all 4 had tool boxes with brand new parts and two of them had leadership 3. The game ended so fast I only got 1 hook in. I'm not a close to being a horrible killer my average kills are around 3 and if the survivors do all escape I make it hard for them. But these SWFs have the major advantage of using discord or another voice chat program to communicate to each other. The Devs need to think of a way to make the game fun again when going against a top tier SWF team.
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That's the point the coms give SWF teams a major advantage over a killer. That's one Nerf that wont break the game for the SWFs because they would have to think more strategically when getting together.
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Your not facing good squads or even SWFS all the time so why does it matter?
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So why not show if the group is a SWF?
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Because it is not a good thing to play a game knowing that it doesn't matter if you are good or not because the other side has control over the outcome and your actions doesn't matter.
When you play a game, you want to have chance of winning every game, which is different from winning every game.
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Give killers a movement speed buff based upon the amount in the swf. Duo 2% trio 3% 4 man 4%.
Or make gens regress more or faster, the game can tell when a group enters a lobby.
Solo queue survs or Killers versing solo needs no changes.
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LMAO they dont care
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How is that different? If you buff killers and soloq survivors you are nerfing swf indirectly, that's the same effect. This argument allways seemed to me like a whole bunch of cope so they never touch swf.
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What...? So, if 4 stack swf, 119 speed who is already OP + Noed +4%= 123% and one hit down vs survivors 100% speed because they play with friends.
If 3 man swf, the solo player gets huge punishment for no reason.
I think you're out of your mind.
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que times would take hours to match you up since most people are going to run 1 of the meta perks also probably putting you in games where you might be with people who have no idea what they are doing or are just going to throw your game for content.
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so punish people for playing with their friends imagine if you joined an online game like cod and you get less bullets because you are linked with people you play everyday with and have good communication.
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I love these threads, it's a fantastic insight into why the developers don't listen to the community. So many bad takes on "balancing" the game xD
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Everytime someone complains about SWF nerf I lose a brain cell at the though of a multiplayer game punishing people for playing with their friends. On the other hand its funny because the changes that get proposed instead only buff solo queue which would make solo play more like playing against a SWF. Killers getting buffed to compensate more than likely won't happen either unless its something like making a killer perk or two base. I would love to see spies from the shadow be base on killer. It'd make sense to me anyway and also bring more use to Calm spirit
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It’s different because by doing it that way, you’re not actually making people incur a penalty for being in a group. If you directly nerf SWF people will be annoyed that they’re penalised for playing with friends. If you instead buff solo players to be at less of a disadvantage, and then buff killers, then there’s little direct difference between playing with friends and playing solo. The end result may be the same, but the big difference is that the devs won’t alienate a part of their player base if they do things in a more roundabout way.
I can’t think of a single instance of a game that penalises you for playing in a group, and that’s for a very good reason.
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Well they aren't buffing either of those soooooooo.....
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I have played Myers, arguably the worst killer, against plenty of 4 man SWF's. Won the majority of those games before the SBMM changes, havent really been playing Myers since SBMM(focussing on learning killers I barely play, since I now dont have to worry about short matches).
SWF isnt really the issue. Solo surv is. Killers are bad because they have to be balanced around Solo surv too. If something can handle optimal SWF but absolutely demolishes solo, then it would need to be changed to no longer demolish solo, even if that means no longer being able to handle optimal swf.
So maybe buff solo surv, so that killers can be raised, rather than raising killers and making all solo players leave the game forever.
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Well in other games solo queue vs grp queues are separate. Teams vs teams solo vs solo.
League has ranked in which no more than a duo can up.
W.o.W has 10 v 10.
And i notice how you think you're being punished, but yet you dont give 2 cents for all the killers who get a crap experience so you can play with your friends.
self entitled much?
Well do the gen regression then. Or they take longer to repair.
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You can dodge SWF, all you have to do is look their profiles and take a look at the friends list/country/groups.
If you find 4 private profiles, get away.
Its kinda boring and exhausting, but its the only way to dodge the sweaty teams/team oracle wannabe.
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It's very clearly not their problem when they've explicitly stated countless time that it's not in any way against the rules.
And of course it isn't. No sane developer in 2021 would even consider trying to stop it, even if they wanted to. They'd have to stop offering their game on consoles (this on its own should make it clear it's more likely we get pulverized by an asteroid tomorrow than them ever even considering it), and anything they tried would be a hilarious waste of resources and dev time on PC.
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It's an already existing concept though. Not in DbD but in other games. League of Legends has it, that when you (DuoQ) queue up with a friend you'll get matched with opponents of a bit higher MMR to offset your advantage of having comms.
Now that we have SBMM, this concept could be applied in DbD to some degree.
That being said - I'd prefer to see buffs to soloQ and corresponding buffs to all killers. So the the power of solo players gets closer to SWF players, instead of penalizing SWF.
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And yet the devs have an official Discord set up explicitly for the community to meet up and play together.
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Gotta be fair and square here and admit that this is a money driven decision, not a game health/balance decision.
They know people love playing together so they're encouraging it because it makes most of their consumers happy thus generating more money.
I'm pretty certain the devs said that the game was designed for solo players with low to no ability to communicate with each other. That's why there is no voice chat and no in game chat and no ping system etc. in the game.
If a game is designed to be played without comms then using comms basically yeets "balance" out of the window. It is an advantage as much as stretch resolution or any other third party solution is. The game was not meant to be played that way.
I'm not saying to bann SWF or anything. Most of the time when I play survivor, I play with friends too. But we can't just sit here and say that SWF is absolutely fine just because the devs have Discord channels set up for it.
Just because the devs have a Discord with SWF channels doesn't mean that the game was designed or balanced around SWF with comms.
If that was the case then the game would've had an in game chat function, whether it's voice or just text, from the get go.
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I don't disagree with any of that, just pointing out chats aren't considered "cheating" by the devs, despite the advantages it brings.
@Azure2290 is looking for balance around SWF, and the only methods I see ever being actually implemented is either a ping system or their own in-game chat like you mentioned. I cannot think they'd ever get rid of SWF nor directly nurf it.
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Ah alright. I've had another impression because the "The Devs have SWF channels on Discord" often gets used to justify using comms.
Well I can agree to the fact that the devs don't see it as an bannable offense. Though I still think they decided to "not see it as cheating" because of $$$.
Designing and balancing a game for solo play without communication and then saying "using third party comms is not cheating in any way" is delusional imho. They just decided to not call it cheating because it'd piss off too many customers.
On that note - no, they'll never nerf or get rid of SWF. They should re-balance/design the game around it though. Granted most SWFs with comms are not even that big of a deal. They're just playing semi-casually with friends. But if you're really into it and using it properly then comms give you a massive advantage and that's not something a third party software should do in a game.
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The whole point is that it's quite simply not an option, full stop. Both because you'd have a hard time finding a dev willing to take their game off several platforms for a reason like that, and because it's technically impossible to actually stop or even detect it in a way people can't easily circumvent on PC.
And I do agree they should balance around it, in the only way I can imagine them ever considering for even a fraction of a second - that good old "buff base/solo survivor and killer". And no, I don't know the perfect way to do that either (I highly doubt a perfect way exists), but it's at least a direction with a non-zero probability of ever being explored by the developers.
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The difference is that you make solo and killer more enjoyable, as opposed to making Swiffer less enjoyable.
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Wouldn't mind that as the nerf itself. Though most of the other "suggestions " people give are just ridiculous.
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