A bit worried about the built to last buff.
I am one of those people who love to try unconventional builds and one of my previous favorites for solo survivor is built to last, streetwise, resilience, and fast track with a purple toolbox yellow durability addon, and brown durability addon. This build is really really good its one of those builds where you never hear about it and only a little people know about it, while it is very very not useful in chases you can pretty much pump out generators with this build.
Now imagine this build with a team full of people using it, with the new buffed built to last making toolboxes last even longer. Did I even mention that streetwise stacks, so if everyone brought streetwise you could basically make a purple toolbox last an entire generator and a half a generator?
I love this perk combo, but I am worried that this is going to get out of hand fast, I don't want this build to be ruined, but at the same time, I do think that it's not a good thing to make built to last so much better.
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I don't really see it being problematic with toolboxes because you'll spend 12+ seconds to activate,which should pretty much kill it for people that tried to really genrush with it
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Maybe but then again 12 seconds is a long time to sit in a locker doing nothing
To make full use out of Build to last one survivor needs to be in a locker for 36 seconds
If the whole team has it that's 144 seconds combined of doing absolutly nothing.
that's already more then your generator and a half
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I do kinda agree, but I think one aspect that will kinda help mitigate this (emphasis on "kinda") is that you need to find a locker and hide for a few seconds. No, it's usually not difficult to do this but on some maps it can be time-consuming. Plus, we'll see how it goes on the PTB and if it does indeed get to be too much, then (hopefully) they'll adjust it.
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Replenishing toolboxes is something we kept in mind. The benefits to recharging your toolbox would be offset by the time you spent hiding in a locker. Overall, you'd be better off working on the generator (even if you don't have a toolbox anymore).
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The buff is a bit insane to be honest.
For example, using Built to Last on a yellow medkit with 24 charges allows you to replenish 48 charges of that medkit, turning a heal and a half into 4 heals and a half. This is just a normal yellow medkit with no addons or other multipliers like Botany Knowledge. Using it on a toolbox like you said will be insane combined with other perks like Prove Thyself or Streetwise.
I feel like they should tune it down to 75/50/25 instead of 99/66/33. Even with this nerf you get 150% more charges with your item, which will be amazing. Right now you get 198% more charges which I think is a little much.
That being said I'm glad they are taking risks like this with perk buffs and I am happy to see this PTB as it seems like the best one yet.
EDIT: Then again I forgot about the getting into a locker aspect, so maybe that will offset the insane amount of charges this perk gives now. We will have to see on the PTB.
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Could we get some insight into whether Streetwise may be getting some changes? This Built to Last buff kind of makes Streetwise redundant.
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Okay ill trust you on this, I was just a little worried though I know I definitely will enjoy the change just wanted to bring this in mind as well just in case this wasn't put into account.
I do love the rest of the perk changes to on the weaker side perks though. :)
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The thing is, survivors control the pace of the game. Pressure for killers starts to build up once they chase someone or set up traps etc.
So if 4 survivors hard rush 1 gen with toolboxes before killer can react and do so again later with replenished toolboxes (which they replisned while all hiding so that killer can't gain pressure = time in lockers doesn't really matter in terms of slowing the game down), they can delete 2-3 gens so fast that killer can't possibly patrol them and interupt them.
Ofc this is mainly SWF issues as solos will never be able to coordinate this but still. Sounds very frustrating.
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Oh also sorry for the second message, but I just remembered to ask this I don't know if I missed things, but will the other killer's addon changes be released in part 3 or will they be in the ptb next week? Because I am very interested on seeing what the rest of the killers will have for changes. :)
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PTB is this week. Probably tomorrow.
and there won’t be a part 3
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All i see are "infinite" flashlights and medkits. This will be like the old SC meta times.
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That was my fear because streetwise makes the toolboxes last a generator and a half because they all stack, but I'm guessing with how peanits replied that they have it covered so I am going to have to trust the devs on this one.
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I trust you guys know best. Hopefully you're right!
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Oh, are they going to reveal the changes in the game? Thank you very much for all the information I must have read things wrong. x-x
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I was going to say what the dev has said. I'd be much more concerned about big medkits. Tank builds are already underrated and this change will make them godlike.
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Peanits made a typo but corrected it, PTB this week and there will be more changes not detailed in the dev update (at least all the addon changes):
With that, we’ve come to the end of the Developer Update (for real this time!) All of the changes mentioned in this two-part post (and more!) will be available for testing in this week’s Player Test Build! We look forward to hearing what you think, and until next time…
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I hadn't even thought about it, did I mention my second favorite build of the same line is self-care, botany knowledge, built to last, and desperate measures or resilence. Then pair that with a green medkit that goes super fast and lasts ages, super fun builds that also is pretty much not used ever. (I can't remember if desperate measures are worse than resilence or not I just use it though since I thought it was better.)
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Thank you so much! :)
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Same, even in solo they are super useful. Saving survivors and getting a heal in 10 seconds is so valuable and you end up with a lot of points. If you play it in swf there's nothing the killer can do to win if he doesn't have franklin's.
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Built to Last was a fun perk before when you absolutely needed to get a gen done. This is a big buff but fair due to the locker requirement.
Remember when perks are updated like this it can indirectly buff other perks, Iron Maidan in this case
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Iron Maiden will finally become meta.
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Flashlight and medkits feel even "infinite" right now with some addons. But i guess now we have speed medkits, which lasts for the entire game.
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Actually the new version is a detriment to the team in most situations.
Any toolbox shaves less time than it takes to refill, Commodius toolboxes (the most efficient ones, even more than purples) save 10 seconds tops and it takes 12 seconds to refill, you lose 2 seconds (even more since you have to actually walk to a locker and then walk to a gen).
Maps wont benefit, you rarely run out of charges and they are used mostly to track totems in totem hunting builds, by the time you would run out of charges totems are long gone.
Keys only blood amber may benefit since its the strongest aura reading of all, the rest are meh and not worthy of wasting 12 seconds on a locker.
Flashlights rarely run out of charges unless you are there just to annoy the killer and spam them and people that sweaty will still run meta perks because they are stronger.
Medkits are the only interaction where you may see some utility albeit not with all of them. greens and browns have 16 charges which are a health state, if you refill them they get 15,6 charges, which isnt enough to heal yourself, using that 99% heal on others speeds a green medkit heal up to ~12 seconds (the amount it takes to refill it), only yellow and purples benefit from it.
The only use this new version has are with purple, yellow or green full of charge addons medkits and toolboxes full of charge addons and even with that is not even that great, a purple box with both charge addons saves 18 seconds, you refill it you get roughly 18 seconds again but it took you 12 seconds on a locker to refill it AND you still have to walk to a locker, get inside, get out and walk to a gen, the optimal net gain is 6 seconds but it will never be optimal also you refill it again you are already losing time since second time gives only 66% charges, so you need a rare item, 2 perishable addons and a perk to save a whoopity 6 seconds off a gen.
Sure you can go full item efficiency build, streetwise, build to last, best addons etc but you are making a build dedicated to something that will save around 10 or 15 seconds of working on a gen and at the cost of having to opt out of 2 or 3 meta perks.
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Unless say, you use Inner Strength as well. Oh look you got a heal and for just a couple of extra seconds a whole second commodious toolbox.
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The 12 seconds isn't huge, but it will also promote the use of perks like iron maiden to counter the perk which I think is a plus if they rework iron maiden.
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Nerf Medikit as soon as possible. PLEASE.
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Built To Last was already busted with toolbox+charges. This buff is insane. A 3 gen is impossible to defend with a toolbox+streetwise+built+Spine Chill+Sprint Burst
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People don't talk about it enough, but medkits are actually way more devastating to a killer's pressure than toolboxes. Medkits are an extremely powerful item, too powerful imo, and this is what worries me about this perk update. Dealing with medkits will be impossible.
Killers that depend on slowly depleting survivor resources by injuring them and keeping them injured will suffer greatly. This is actually something that Deathslinger needs to do. As deathslinger you slowly starve survivors out of resources as you spread your pressure. Now just vivors will make medkits last forever and you will never have any pressure.
I guess we'll see how it plays out.
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That sounds fine on paper, in a vacuum, but in practice things are often quite different and not so simple.
There are numerous scenarios where being in a locker for 12 seconds has very little or absolutely no impact on your ability to do gens.
Also burst gen speed is more impactful than regular gen speed. There’s a big difference between finishing a gen that is not being pressured, and burst repairing a gen that is near completion at a vital turning point in the match.
Think about the implications of the above points in light of this new change.
I’m a survivor main and this change is going to make gens fly by at absurd speeds more often than not, especially in coordinated teams.
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What about med-kits?
Ranger kits already last for quite a while, hopping in a locker to get a SECOND med-kit is a huge deal, especially at higher MMR.
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I just made a post TLDR if you run a toolbox it is gonna be actually weaker to use all your BTL charges.
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And yet in order to have “infinite” flashlights and medkits that do anything, it means survivors are healing, blinding, then sitting in lockers, etc. instead of doing gens. Isn’t that what we want? Incentives for survivors to not just sit and do all the gens as fast as possible? Longer, slower paced games?
I feel like some people will only be happy if the devs just straight up add 30+ seconds to the generator repair bar and then delete all non-meme-tier perks. “Shake up the meta but absolutely do not buff any perks! Slow down gens but not like that!” If you want the game to be rebalanced and become less samey then you have to accept that that requires things being changed, including some things being buffed into being more viable or more fun to use.
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as a doctor main may I introduce you to a magical solution to your problem. running overwhelming presence and overcharge. the chances of people getting any progress with toolboxes against my doctor who has a terror radious of 56 meters when my power is ready I doubt any value will be made from a toolbox or med-kit or whatever when in my big boi terror radious cuz they lose 2X the amount of charges. but what if they aren't in the terror radious. use overcharge to kick the gen they have been trying to finish if you get there in time. overcharge is aids to play against when the killer kicks every gen they see. other perks that can counter this are oppression deadlock or devour (because they will be so focused on finding it after 3 stacks that they forget about gens and dolphin dive your totem giving much needed room to kick the gens and slow down the game) or if your feeling like none of this will work just bring franklins it is the easiest solution but the most toxic and will likely lead to the survivors getting angry as heck in endgame chat. Trust me we don't need more salt so just run anti gen perks if you load in and see your average lobby of 4 megs all wearing masks and carrying toolboxes cuz if you don't well..... prepare for the worst game of your life.
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i'm less worried about the toolboxes than about the medkit. Right now it's already possible to bring a medkit and get 2-3 heals out of it. With a special build it goes up to 4-5, with this new version of Build to Last, i don't want to think about it.
Medkits are the strongest items of the game (after keys but hey they are nerfing them), you can use them to deny the killer pressure. Being able to self-heal 4-5 times during a game is huge. So until i see how it plays in the PTB i'm a bit scared.
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Doesnt really matter, you rarely get to heal yourself or others more than 4 or 5 times in a normal match. I rarely do unless the Killer is going overboard with split pressure with the hits (which is already a risky tactic in most Killers).
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not relevant because botany knowledge provides with 33% med-kit efficiency. so for example ranger kit with gel dressing is 48 charges. With botany, your getting so many heals that it doesn't matter. More perks might as just be self-care which adds even more med-kit efficiency.
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The more i think about it the more i think it's really not going to be a big deal.
The only item really worth replenishing are medkits. Seeing how you lose more time going into a locker for 12 seconds then you often gain by just repairing in case of toolboxes.
A normal medkit will take so long to replenish that you are better of to just bring self care.
So it's only really superusefull on superdecked medkits. And those already pretty much lasted a whole match
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4 SWF survivors all bring medkits, killer currently has massive pressure. All survivors decide to reset and heal with their medkits.
Then they do it again.
Then they do it again.
Then they do it again.
The survivors win.
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The 32-charge toolbox with wire spool and socket swivels saves a little over 18 seconds in repair time for a single use. So there is essentially no time gained from the perk (12 x 3 = 18 x 2).
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What exactly is the killer in your scenario doing while all 4 survivors are resetting at once, taking a piss in the corner?
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Well that's 144 seconds of all 4 survivors not being on gens so I hope you aren't just walking around aimlessly.
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This reminds me of Yui's perk that makes you lose tracking. It's a good buff but it may not be enough to change the meta. Toolboxes are still too weak in the face of an onslaught of killer slowdown perks. Having to find a locker and sit in it for a long time is too much of a downside.
In the meantime, the killer is quickly downing someone. Perhaps multiple. Lets totally forget about that.
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Or they could just run Adrenaline, do the final gens injured and achieve the same thing in a fraction of the time. Or have one or two people run WMI and heal the others within its very generous window without having to lounge around in lockers.
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1) If all current gens are at or near 0, which can certainly happen if the killer created pressure while ruin was active, or Pop was just recently used on the primary gen of focus, there is no net loss for the survivor
2) I've you've ever actually played with your friends in a SFW group, you'd know how to properly reset and not get caught. If the killer is patrolling, they get free heals. If the killer decides to go on a search, they likely will not find the survivors, and if some survivors heal early, they get free time on the gen
I hope you know the sheer strength and affect a medkit has on the game.
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No, because even in a full 4 man group, I don't face killers that sit with their thumb up their ass while we go heal in seclusion. Any killer worth their salt isn't going to just aimlessly wander and not actively be searching for and chasing survivors.
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Oh wait... so a survivor who goes full speed healing build but "wastes" 12 seconds in a locker is slower at healing than a SC user? lol
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Well time to dust off the old Franklin's Hag.
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Sure, getting 300% item use is totally balanced lol.
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Well hit and run is even more dead with built to last medkits.
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