As a surv player bored with the lack of variety, nerfing non OP killers kills variety even more.
We'll have to see how significant of a movement speed buff Deathslinger has while ADSing now, but with how it sounds, his nerfs are massively outweighing his buff. On top of that, Spirit is also getting similar treatment, a killer that I could see being pretty fun to play against with the right changes, while being just as strong as she is now.
However, straight up killing what attracts people to Slinger and heavily weakening him when he's not even THAT strong discourages more and more people from playing him (or Spirit) and instead play more Wraith, Huntress, Bubba, and the other 2 choice killers that I rarely see but still see more over the other 10k. Variety has gotten EVEN worse with MMR because of how much people are sweating as well.
I know most people are rejoicing about the changes, but I'd much rather see them make both Spirit and Deathslinger more fun to play against while giving them more strengths elsewhere to compensate for decreasing their power level with them not being overpowered. You'll continue to rejoice as this happens until, again, all you're really ever going to see is Wraith, Bubba, Blight, Huntress, etc.
TLDR; The lack of variety in this game SUCKS as survivor especially now that MMR is on, and nerfing unfun-to-face killer powers instead of adjusting them is going to just discourage people from playing them at all when they could be potentially more fun to play against and still just as strong to play with the right changes. You're only going to go "wooo yeah, X killer is dead, thank god nobody is gonna play them anymore" until all you see is Wraith and 2 other killers. At the end of the day, in the grand scheme of DBD, these changes will simply just make survivor less fun, which is completely counterintuitive and frustrates me.
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The cooldown before basic attack nerf i don't like. The can't shoot until gun is up I like. Speed while holding is nice tho.
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I think I've said it way too much at this point, but the speed buff while holding ADS is worthless if ADS stays as clunky as it is. Play Slinger with both the ADS MS addons and try to keep holding ADS instead of quickscoping and you'll see what I mean. It works for Huntress because she has a truck sized hitbox, but Slinger has a needle sized one and even the smallest wiggle can be enough to make you miss, while with Huntress the survivor has to make big dodges.
Either give him the same hitbox of Huntress at this point and make him auto-reload on successful hits, or give him free sensitivity on ADS so he has something for him over Huntress with the flicks.
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I don't know what to say anymore. Survivor complain, survivor get.
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They always do it, behaviour's speciality is to make the stronger side even more strong
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I 100% agree. When I read the uptade I just thought "wait, they are killing Deathslinger for no reason? He is a tier B killer". It literally doesn't make sense! And, as always, they just leave the weaker killers forgotten, with no buffs like Legion
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Everybody likes to complain about unfun this and that, but at the end of the day, understand this:
- You will get the nerfs to killer that you want as survivors, this has already been proven in BVHR's patch records.
- A finger on the monkey paw will close, and you will see Blight, Nurse, and METAMAN (the build) even more.
- And if, by some insane twist of fate, Nurse and Blight get gutted.. then the final two fingers of the paw will close and survivor queues will jump from 5 - 10 minutes to 20 - 30 as there's nothing truly strong left for killers to use.
The game is not in a good enough state to change killers this drastically, and all this does is pen people into a few viable choices along with METAMAN accompanying it.
For those that say: I play X and Y at high levels and I'm fine. Alright, let me level set you real quick:
- You play those killers and succeed due to not facing survivors playing to actually win - bringing the best perks, being efficient on generators, and bringing excellent items/add-ons.
- These teams are rare, and won't show up in a majority of your games, HOWEVER, make peace with this fact: no matter how good you are, if you're not playing Nurse, you will never win. Ever. Your skill cap is much lower on literally every killer in the game save for one, giving them the natural advantage over you to start. Throw in map RNG and.. well, your options are depleted.
Some of us do not gain any sort of satisfaction from beating new or average survivors, nor do we enjoy the idea that we're getting ahead not because of our skill, but because of their poor decisions. See what I've noticed is that survivors are completely fine with chases being dictated by how they play, but not ok with the opposite being true. Hypocritical, but that's how it is. Four people will always find a way to band together and stick with their tribe against the singular opposition. Human nature's a #########.
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Because that's not my argument. My argument is the entire rest of the post that has nothing to do with the sentence "as a survivor player.." beyond how I've shared that my survivor experience, especially since MMR has released, has lacked variety a ton. But instead of actually reading and responding to the contents of my post, you're fixating on the first 4 words of the title. Where's YOUR argument?
I play survivor, I face a very low variety of killers every time I play, and my stance is that the recent changes are hurting the already lacking variety of killers. If all you're going to respond with is "uhh u cant prove you play survivor," then why are you here on a forum? People share their experiences and opinions on the game constantly without providing government-approved evidence that details exactly how long their grandma was logged on DBD the previous night and what she ate for breakfast the following morning. Get real.
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Variety isn't going to get any better after this patch if most of it goes through, I can tell you that. Even more depressing, is if some of the killers are fortunate in their add-on buffs, I seriously, seriously doubt it'll be enough to push them into viability. Map RNG is just far too volatile and unbalanced, with no real check and balance system to prevent strong tiles from linking together.
Pig with better add-ons is still Pig. Myers will still be Myers, etc etc.
In order for weaker killers to compete with the game's current state (thereby increasing variety), their add-ons would have to be massively over buffed. This won't happen, so yeah.. survivor is going to be a real snooze fest after this patch assuming the majority of these changes go through (which they likely will). Variety was already awful as it is, so I agree with you here.
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No cooldown before basic attack is essentially free zoning tho. So that's fine. No quickscoping is a good change too since it removes coinflip.
The lack of compensation in his 1v4, is what I am missing. His changes are fine if he becomes a 115% killer. His changes are fine if hitting a survivor with a spear and inflicting deep wounds slowed their generator progression speed untill they are fully healed.
His changes for his 1v1 are fine, great even. The lack of changes for his 1v4, are not.
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Same argument could be said about the start of the game: Windows started being blocked when they never were. Stagger was added when there was none. Pallet vacuums were removed. Hooks gained a respawn timer. That is when the metabuild of survivors started being used.
But what happened? That metabuild was nerfed, EGC was even added? Dying Light didnt get nerfed? A lot of survivors did drop off increasing the killer queue quite significantly? Oh, but what's this? Killers were then starting to be addressed too?
Survivor "fun" was gutted in favor of making killer more fun to play. Anything killers "demanded" was granted. Extra BP to BBQ so it would be comparable to WGLF? Sure. A secondary effect to WGLF so it would be more comparable to BBQ? Didnt happen untill 1 year ago.
I can create a massive list of examples that happen to killers now, that happened to survivors then. Yes, it's a sour apple to bite through, but the end result does become sweeter. Deathslinger might become unplayable for a while, welcome to the grand list of killers that have once been practically unplayable after their 1 strength was nerfed: Hag, Doctor, Bubba, Clown, Demo, Trickster, Legion. All killers that have been in a state of being incapable of even holding a match together, but are now quite capable of holding their own in higher than ever tiers. Heck, higher tiers than old Nurse was even capable of holding. Because maps have been balanced, powers have been readjusted.
Yeah, Deathslinger might have 3 months where he is going to be unplayable, at worst. Which is much better than the killers mentioned previously, who were unplayable for over a year before they got adjusted.
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Here's the thing, never once did I ever claim that survivors haven't been nerfed. Survivors have been massively depowered compared to how broken they once were, on that I think we can both agree. The sad part? Survivor is, and always has been the most powerful role in the game, pre and post-nerf. They were so vastly overpowered before that even after a slew of changes, they're still the most dominant role AFTER killers got several buffs in the form of perks, power designs, and map changes. So what does this tell us? Well, clearly one side can afford to suffer multiple fairly large nerfs and remain incredibly potent, while the other, much weaker side, cannot sustain the same level of aggressive change without suffering in the long term. Not all killers are created equal, however all survivors can use the same base mechanics to combat all but one killer on the roster. Just think about it.
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I too, dislike the lack of variety the longer I play Survivor.
I swear I've played against Wraith more than anyone in the cast.
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personally I still see variety although I never see hag or twins because let's be real like 6 people play them
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Its not a nerf , it just forces deathslingers to play and plan their action just like huntress. Deathslinger is total bullshit without any CD on their weapon but Huntress has them, hmm?
As we talk about variety deathslinger may act differently not only baiting right click infinite time without any cons
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Yep. People ask me why i'm so cynical... it's because the game is straight unfair/unfun at even slightly higher ranks.. So even the slightest nerf to killer is a straight slap in the face. And yet, they do it over and over again and think everything is fine.
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how exactly does deathslinger have no cd? He literally reloads.
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I'm not following you. All that matters right now is the state of the game right now. Not what they did 4 years ago.
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at this point they're gonna make it so huntress starts with only 2 hatchets without addons istg :(
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"non op killers" "spirit"
huh good one
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That's very disingenious to assume people play to win.
DBD is mainly a casual game, the vast majority of players don't play to win. They play to have fun. Even an SWF with 4 of the most meta perks in the game can still just play the game for shits and giggles. ######### CowsIAM is the perfect example of someone who just plays the game for the memes.
But, let's assume that people play to win.
Why are there such a small variety of killers as well as survivor perks to go hard on one another? I'm quite happy to see Trapper buffed and Built to Last buffed because that means we get to potentially perks like that and killers like Trapper more often.
But why would we also nerf killers like Slinger who isn't even A tier in terms of power?
Again. ASSUMING that people want to win, based on your own assumptions here, why aren't the devs designing the game based around making sure every killer and perk plays optimally at the highest level?
Because they don't. They themselves said they balance around the casual crowd. Which is why this nerf is especially frustrating in a sea of good changes. Because it makes one killer basically an obsolete version of an already existing killer if you want to play a ranged killer.
No one likes to play a janky killer that doesn't feel fun.
Nurse and Hag are extremely powerful. But not a lot of people play them because their playstyles aren't as fun as someone like Doctor or Legion for example.
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I doubt that Spirit will fall out of meta. But she might actually be fun to go against now.
If she does need a buff, they could maybe still reduce her cooldown.
Deathslinger needs more map pressure. It's a shame they didn't buff him more to compensate for the nerfs, but I can still understand why BHVR did this, to make him a bit more suffarable to go against. Again, we'll have to see how impactful these nerfs even are. Pyramid Head received a nerf and I believe some people were freaking out, and yet he is still almost the same when it comes to his power level as before.
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This doesn't add anything to it but make ur argument look even more silly.
I'm...sharing my experience as a survivor...Do you want me to say "As an among us player," next time?
I would understand your fixation on this extremely tiny part of my post if I included nothing else to back up my claim that I play survivor and didn't share any of my negative experiences, but I'm doing the complete opposite. I'm a survivor player that is unhappy that variety is being hurt even more by flat nerfs that don't need to happen. That's who I am. That's what I'm sharing. If you don't like that, then get off of a forum.
U want the devs to nerf/buff things based on your experience, you're experience isn't even the 1%, so what are u on bud?
You just pulled a number out of your ass and asked me what I'm on. Neat. There's no argument to respond to here.
That's not a game problem. People play to win, so you'll see less variety. The only way u could see variety is that if every killer is at nurse/spirit level. If you want to see variety then make another Adrenaline, Dead Hard, spirit, nurse so the game gets even more unbalanced but hey! "Variety" I guess.
By nerfing killers instead of taking strengths (like DSlinger's braindead zoning, lack of a meaningful terror radius with M&A as a RANGED killer, shots that come out of his gun before he even moves the gun) away from a killer but adding them elsewhere in a significant way (movement speed while holding the gun? LOL) is the way you make changes that don't kill a character for people. So, yes, you're correct, but by killing a character who doesn't need to be killed, there's now a significantly lower chance you'll ever see them in a survivor game when they COULD be just as common as they are now (or even more common) AND more fun to play against. That's my complaint.
And it is ok that u share ur experience, but dont write a essay on why survivors needs to be nerfed or killers need to be buffed based on your experience, imagine if we balance around players experience on the game lol... Maybe you should get real.
son you're on a forum, i don't know what you're expecting. a post like this is literally fulfilling the purpose of a forum; for people to share experiences and opinions/ideas (which, again... are based on experiences in-game). if you hate talking with other players so much, then go DM the devs about kill statistics and talk about that, because ain't nobody talking about that here lol.
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Old legion wasn't OP. Not even with Frank's mixtape and the stupid backwards walk. It was stupid and uncounterable but other killers could down you much quicker, and without their power they were 110. You can leave stuff like that in for the sake of variety but I could happily do without it. I say this as a survivor player and a killer player if that's what we're doing.
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That's not my point. I'm not saying to leave killers how they are for variety, I'm saying don't kill their strengths and keep only their weaknesses. Readjust their strengths so people still play them, they're still strong, AND they're more enjoyable to play against, because otherwise you're going to encounter the same 3-4 killers even MORE.
I don't see how fewer people playing a killer that could be more fun to play against is preferable over almost never seeing that killer at all.
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Probably because this community has a weird thing about wanting to see certain killers "deleted" like they're entitled to wanting it just removed from the game.
I've been seeing it a lot more lately, don't know what's up with that. Either just "remove x Killer" or "remove x Perk from the game" instead of actually try to solve it and balance it out better.
Hell, I know a couple of people who actively want Legion deleted from the game and will genuinely bully the crap out of anyone who plays them because they think people who play Legion just has a "boring playstyle"
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In that case we're in agreement, I think they should give (slinger at least) something to make him stronger in other areas. Killers who are amazingly good at 1v1 and terrible at everything else are the ones I have the strongest dislike for.
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I feel genuinely sorry for you.
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lmao the game has been the most varied it has always been, what are you ?
Remember three years ago when all you saw on red ranks was Billy, Nurse and once in a lifetime an extremely skilled Huntress? All of them with some BS add-on combo like omega blink or double charge add-ons. Now I see a different killer every other game. I will take an alchemist ring blight every day over a 5 blink nurse.
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I envy your experience. My solo experience as survivor has just been Wraith (SO MANY), Huntress, Oni (less likely, but more popular since MMR), and Pinhead, likely because he's newer, with your odd very skilled Nurse and Blight every 5-10 games or so, or a facecamping Bubba (literally). Nemmy was common, but it's been dying down a lot since we've gotten farther and farther since the RE chapter release. Other than that, all of the other killers are incredibly rare for me. Couldn't tell you the last time I've seen a Doctor, Pyramid, Slinger, Trickster, Twins, Plague, Legion, Clown, Pig, Myers, Billy, Demo, or Ghostface. I do not have any memory of seeing these killers in the past month. I've seen very few Spirits, Hags, Trappers, and Freddys, but I have seen each maybe once or twice.
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