Whats the deal with....dads
With every new survior or killer realesed that bhvr made themselves their is a startling connection.
In the form of lore well include some form of dad being bad.. Or having a issue or experiencing death. Below is a list of o.g killers with some of daddy problem or unfortunate event related to le dad
. Trapper : father was abusive.
. Hillbilly : abusive dad 2 electric boogaloo
.wraith : dad was killed in conflict
.Clown: abusive dad 3 the prequel
. Spirit dad was manipulated by entity he murdered her as well.
. Legion 2 non present dads in lore (frank, joey)
.oni dad was murdered by oni in a attempt to stop his son commiting litteral genocide
Total killer daddy incidents 8
Well that ain't bad right get ready for survivors then.
.jake : didn't understand his dad ran away the 2 had stopped contacting eachother since.
.nea: rebelled against parents (this is a technicality since parents involve a dad)
. Feng got mad at parents for failing to see potential in her gaming. (technically yes but im not gonna count this one as it is way too vague)
.David: abusive dad 4 the presequel
.adam dad died when he was 2
.jeff dad argued with mom constantly
.yui dad wanted her to follow traditions but she didn't want to and disowned her
.zarina : dad was killed.
.felix dad was kidnapped by le entity
.Elodie basically caused her parents to get kidnapped by entity.
.mikaela dad died on a boating accident.
Survs have a total of 11 dad incidents
To put this in perspective 8/16 Orginal killers have dad incidents.
And og survs have 10/17 daddy incidents.
So on this very obvious lore link that bhvr have a kink for daddy issues. I raise this challenge. If the next chapter manages to completely avoid causing a unessacary death or make unstable father/whoever relationship. I will personally have a shot of whatever you the devs decide. On that chapters official realese.
Anyways that's it just wanted to point out a very obvious link.
Comments
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are you kink shaming the entity's hostage's family life?
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To be fair, this'un isn't just a BHVR archetype, it's a soft trope in the entire horror genre. Horror works by perverting the safe and familiar, and fathers are a cultural symbol of both those and an easy target for twisting that narrative - fathers, husbands, and boyfriends leading the charts on notions of abuse IRL.
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My best guess is that it's somewhat relatable to a lot of people to be missing a father or father-like figure in their life.
Men do tend to be more violent than women so it would make sense that many characters to feature a somewhat abusive father. Personally I dislike this stereotype as to me my father is the person I care about the most due to how nice he is, but unfortunately it is true that men are more violent.
Men also tend to work more dangerous jobs (which although is a stereotype, it is somewhat true), especially before the last generation.
As for entity reasons, no idea.
I wouldnt be opposed to an abusive mother or a very caring father character to spice it up a bit, however only if it fits. No reason to throw random lore at a character if it makes no sense.
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Lol. I love this. I won't say anything for obvious reasons. But I love this.
@OP Simply observe the media you watch and you will see many common themes.
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It's a horror cliche. Uncreative writing.
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They know too much. Banish it to the Lore section where no one will find it.
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The entity loves people with daddy issues.
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It makes for a great dad joke.
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Generic traits from film/horror genre.
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I mean, Feng makes sense. She gives the vibes of someone who has a bad relationship with their father. /s
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Cliche =/= uncreative
Just you try to tell a captivating story without using any cliches. It’s gonna be boring as all hell.
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You can write a story without falling into cliches. It's just incredibly difficult to be purely original but you can still use or partially use a story set up while still being original. It isn't the cliche that makes the story captivating. It is the writing itself. How the writer describes the scene. You're right that the two aren't the same. What they do though is lazy writing following similar formulas. A good compass to follow though is using real stories be it your own or someone else's to act as a baseline whether it is loosely to the point where its only similarity is its message or accurately. Using some isn't bad but here is the thing: If you fall into it THAT MANY TIMES yes it is uncreative writing.
Here is a story I've thought of, not gonna do the whole dialogue and structure its just be throwing out a concept I've thought up just now:
There could be a survivor named Camilla who is a Romany gypsy, her mother and father were optimistic and cheerful despite the family living in poverty. They promised she'd reach the stars if she believed in herself and were very traditional. They moved around often so she seldom grew an attachment to people. When she did she was time and time again manipulated and burned. She developed anti social behavior and in her teenage years started to use heroin to cope with being around people. That could be metaphorically represented with a person named 'Harriet', sort of like an imaginary friend to represent the supportiveness she feels from the drug. She drew a parallel between people and the fantastical demons her mother would tell her about in her childhood years. Demons that could put on disguises and cloud their intentions for parasitic purposes.
Fast forward, she's working a dead end job at a chicken processing plant and smoking a ciggy on the porch of her trailer. She gets a texts and goes to pick up her lifelong friend. She takes a long walk through the woods. The scene is dark, decrepit and spooky. Camilla seems at ease with this however and this walk is one of the few sources of enjoyment she has given her resentment of people and society. For suspense, could include an "observer" from the shadows during the walk with most of the story in that span of time being. She reaches her dealer's house and goes through a brief exchange. She seems on edge but quickly relaxes after clutching her paws on her chunky brown friend.
She ventures back into the woods and turns to an overgrown path. She goes to the place she routinely goes to shoot heroin by a muddy pond. Despite the scene being something that most people would find unsettling, she finds a beauty in it and feels safe. She shoots up and sits alongside with her friend who comes to meet her. They talk for awhile and she feels the comforting warmth she's been seeking. The scene grows sinister progressively however, with black ooze seeping discreetly through the ground, trees, etc little by little. Camilla would be unaware at first with her focus on the lake and her "friend". The conversation between the two takes a dark turn however and her friend Harriet berates Camilla with insults about how she's a ######### up, amounted to nothing, etc. She feels a discomfort in her heart and her left arm grows heavy. The argument continues, basically the 'friend' would be a representation of her own internal insecurities/fears coming out to attack her.
Now, the scene could go one of two ways. The discomfort turns into a crushing pressure on her heart, because she's overdosing while her friend is basically mentally abusing her or a physical assault could ensue where the metaphorical friend is the one pushing her down and crushing her chest with her struggling but being too weak to fight her off. If the first route is chosen, the friend would leave after saying some incredibly hurtful ######### and she sits in the dark alone clutching her chest. She doesn't have insurance so she feels like she has to just endure and be strong in that route. She is scared but also scared of living a life with even more debt. So physically and mentally she's helpless with only her thoughts to keep her company. She thinks back to her past and relives some past memories to find some and thinks about how she had that loving support but did nothing with it. That she let her fears conquer her life. I'd prefer the first route, but either way both routes would result in the scene becoming more and more infected by the entity transforming the woods into her personification of hell.
In the end as she lays there, her heart weak and sore, her body heavy and unable to move, struggling to breathe... The entity, through that ooze and black claws holds her down and takes her. She's never seen again and no one really cares. Anyways, you could say some of that is cliche, wouldn't doubt it cause its just me throwing ideas at a wall as I go. There's no structure really and specifics but hey, that's the great thing about drafts. My basis for the sense of helplessness, despair, etc. is inspired by my own overdose induced heart attack but I took a stimulant. Also had no insurance at the time so I couldn't get help or I'd of been in serious debt. So I chose instead to lay back, holding my chest for hours knowing there was a real big chance I was going to die. I couldn't sleep out of fear and cause it was a stimulant so I was up for like 7 hours going through that. Even at that point, was still afraid to sleep and couldn't eat. I forced myself to eat broth and slept after cause I knew that if I didn't I'd 100% die pushing my body further. Heroin is a better drug for the story because it warms you/comforts you. I've been in a good few F'd up situations where I felt like my life was over but nothing truly ever felt like I 100% would die. If something else tries to kill you, there's plenty of things you can do even if its futile. When its your own body, there's no control.
Painting that fear into a scene can be done in a lot of ways. The feeling doesn't compare to usual fears. The main feelings to get across though that the scene should establish: Transitioning from something comforting her to being the source of her terror. Helplessness and despair. Self reflection, regrets, and failing to meet expectations. Add on her literally being alone in the moment and in her life as she's become estranged through that journey: a feeling of loneliness and knowing that no one is going to notice she is gone. That's one idea I've had anyways. I like writing short stories but I doubt I'll ever put that concept to paper cause the direction this game goes implies to me they're unlikely to touch real issues. You'll probably say the malicious observer bit is cliche, I included that to have the cosmic horror element present. Its a problem with a lot of game companies. I mean if you look at the Fallout series for example, they started off full of despair and opaque. Fastforward and its comical and the dialogue has gotten to the point its shallow enough to be summed up by a wheel.
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Alright then i will take this challenge on it would be ungentleman like to back down from a challenge prosides its been ages since ibe wrote story could do me some good
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Now it may be because I'm massively sleep-deprived, but I have no idea what you're saying here.
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Coming back to @Ohnoes, you are completely right in that using a particular trope (or cliche) often in the same work a (part of) lazy/uncreative writing. I don't fully understand what you're trying to argue by presenting your own work, though.
I'm of the personal opinion that nothing exists in a vaccuum, especially when it comes to writing fiction (being creative, if you will). Everything is based on something that has previously existed, be it fictitious or not. Or to put it a bit more abstractly, I don't think it's possible to imagine (and create) something you've never inexperienced in some form. From that follows that quite literally everything you'll ever create is based on something, and is thereby unoriginal. That's not a bad thing, though. Unoriginal =/= uncreative, though. Or, at least, that's what I like to think.
If used well, tropes/cliches can greatly deepen the story, the world, its characters. But it has to be recognisable, otherwise your audience will have nothing to anchor their own position down to. You quite simply cannot imagine something you've never experienced. A wholly original character, environment, what have you, if such a thing can even exist, would become so abstract, so foreign that it becomes an excercise in futility to even care about them.
I can recommend TV Tropes (https://tvtropes.org/), where you can search for your favourite works and see the tropes it uses being deconstructed. Though it might also ruin your enjoyment of said works.
Also their "tropes are tools" page (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TropesAreTools)
(As a side note, I struggle to express myself when it comes to these abstract things. If none of this makes any sense, that's why.)
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So we've got the Romany are poor trash whonhave drug abuse issues trope, which I kinda find offensive tbh, and I'm sick of seeing in the world.
We've got the "poor girl grew up tough" trope
We've got the "girl who likes dark places to prove she's different" trope
We've got the "drug user who communes with the drug" trope, still best done in pulp fiction.
We end with the classic "these ugly woods are actually... Evil!" Trope, best seen in Evil Dead.
I may have missed some, but if that was meant to be an example of how one can write a creative story while avoiding cliche, I believe you stumbled on the 5 yard line.
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False. I will prove you wrong here:
It's called the Ugly Barnacle.
Once there was an ugly barnacle, he was so ugly that everyone died.
THE END.
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joke's on you, tvtropes has a page on that as well
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Yet,a cliche isnt exactly bad, specially if its realist
Abusive parents is a very productive trope
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Felix was going to be a dad before the entity got him, There are 2 things I want to say: First, Like Father, Like Son and second, is that BHVR went and made one of their playable characters a dad, Which means that felix's child will have daddy issues.
Also, you forgot meg, Her dad abandoned her and her mother.
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