So about gen regression perks... (a bit long TLDR at the bottom)
Here's the thing. I think generators are a big problem in this game, and this problem is in part exacerbated because gen perks can stack with each other or sometimes are strong enough on certain killers that they make it so that if you nerf gens, you'll just leave the survivors at the mercy of all of this gen regression which will make the game impossible for them.
I genuinely think that if you want to make the game healthier overal, you need to make gen regression perks much less appealing and above all you need to massively limit or remove ways in which those perks interact with each other. This seems like it's crazy given the current meta and how fast gens go, but I honestly, truly benlieve it's the only way to be able to balance the game properly.
So here's a few suggestions of what i think should happen with gen perks and some general gen stuff. Keep in mind, that this is not intended as just a "nerf killers" kinda thing. The idea is to nerf this, to start addressing other game issues.
First a few base changes to gens:
- Gens cannot regress or be damaged while blocked, and they cannot be damaged while regressing.
- Basic kicks do 1% gen regression + 1% extra per new survivor hooked in the trial for a total of 5% if you hook every survivor, -1% per dead survivor. Immediately it gives you a tangible reward for going for multiple survivors instead of punishing you for no reason if you think you need to tunnel. It will also mean that you're not at a massive disadvantage for choosing not to use gen defense and focusing more on other areas. Also, it counters gen tapping. Also, it rewards you for doing what you're supposed to do, which is outplay survivors and hook them.
Now for gen perks:
- Corrupt Intervention: Blocks 3 farthest gens from you at the beginning of the trial. Once the time is up, survivors get a global warning sound. Once this happens, the entity will permanently block the gens, and only will let them go when a survivor starts working on them. This means that corrupt cannot stack with ruin or pop since you won't be able to kick gens anymore and it shouldn't stack with surge either.
- Ruin: Gens regress at current ruin speed. However, once ruin is cleansed for good, a lingering curse will remain. Gens will no longer regress and can no longer be damaged. Meaning it no longer stacks with pop, or surge since you won't be able to kick gens anymore. Massive risk for massive reward, if the hex is cleansed you better worry about those gens, you don't have a plan B anymore.
- Pop Goes the Weasel: Reduce damage to 20%. Stacks with basic kicks. Reduce timer to 10 seconds. This is to prevent a killer from using surge on a gen that's close, then using pop on a gen really far away. (EDIT: This idea is bad. It's just what I could come up with trying to kill Pop's synergy with other gen perks)
- Surge: Remove its cooldown. Make it work like infectious, any time a survivor gets downed basic attack or power. Tune it down to 5%. If the gen blows up while a survivor is working on it, give a 1s grace period so the survivor can let go of it and the gen doesn't stop regressing. This is to prevent it from stacking with basic kicks if the survivor chooses to let go of it.
- Oppression: Reduce it's cooldown by at least half or make it recharge when you hook a survivor. Applies effects of basic kicks to each gen affected. Negates pop goes the weasel. As in, oppression's effect of damaging multiple gens will trump Pop's big damage on one gen.
- Eruption: Can be left as is, maybe you can even get rid of its cooldown, stacks with basic kick effect. Same as oppression, the gen marking effect trumps pop's big damage. It also doesn't work with Oppression. Oppression would blow up 3 gens and unmark them from Eruption, Eruption would mark a gen and not blow 3 of them up. Again the idea is to break gen regression synergy.
- Dead Man's Switch: Once the obsession has been hooked, it picks a new survivor at random to make your obsession. If they're working on a gen when they become your obsession, reveal each other's auras for 3 seconds.
- Thrilling Tremors: applies once per downed survivor until that survivor is picked up and downed again or hooked, rescued and downed again. Entity blocks you from kicking generators for the next 35 seconds after the effect of this perk. This is to prevent this perk from stacking with pop.
PS: the only synergy i think i didn't break fully is the synergy between Pop and Surge. You could still use it on gens that are less than 10 second away with mobility killers. If you have any ideas for that feel free to share.
You could also conceivably pair Ruin with Corrupt to patrol the 4 non blocked gens. But eventually corrupt will run out and ruin will be useless, so I don't know if it's a problem with these changes.
TLDR: Make it so that gen regression perks do not stack with each other and don't offer plan A and plan B type scenarios. Then balance the game around the fact that gens regression can't be stacked as much.
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(Edit) CLARIFICATION: It seems I have messed up communicating my intentions with this post, and I did not make them clear. This post doesn't seek to nerf killers for no reason. However, more often than not I see killers and survivors talking past each other and never acknowledging their side's issues, and never being willing to give up something for a fairer game.
Obviously these nerfs would need changes to core gameplay and survivors, however that would make the post gigantic. I chose to focus on some ideas I had to compromise on the gen regression/gen protection side of killer.
Do you think these would be reasonable changes if the game accommodated a better pace without stacking up on gen regression? Do you think you'd have a better idea for a compromise on the strength and synergies of these perks if the game pace issues were also addressed? What changes would it take to the core game or the survivor side so that you'd think these changes are reasonable? This was more or less the type of discussion I wanted to spark with my post, I just messed up massively while trying to communicate it.
Comments
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No.
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Ok, that's totally valid. But why?
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This change kills high-ranked play where you need gen regression.
Any change implemented on the Survivor-side would make the game exceedingly boring for them or it wouldn't do enough to slow down the game.
Even with Ruin and PGTW, a good team can push out 3 gens in under two minutes.
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Oh yeah, currently the game is balanced so gen regression is needed which is why I think gen regression is awful. It kinda obscures the real fact of the matter. If you make them not stack with each other, you get rid of killer's abilities to protect themselves against real fast gens sure, but you also make it so that survivors don't ever find themselves in the opposite scenario which can be hilariously oppressive.
Now, I will never suggest that the devs should make gens take longer to complete. That would be boring for survivors. i have seen change ideas for secondary objectives that aren't just "hold m1 for longer". For a start survivors could have some of their second chances that stall the game removed. Maps could be made smaller, loops less safe so that it promotes interaction between each side and it requires each side to actually outplay each other instead of just stalling.
I genuinely think compromise is the only way we will get anywhere. Otherwise it will just be killers and survivors bickering at each other forever, growing ever more resentful of each other, quitting the game, etc. If killers aren't willing to give up things that can be oppressive or stale on their side, survivors will always be able to bring that stuff up when killers are the ones asking for stuff to be changed.
But, who knows. Maybe my idea is trash. I just wanted to put it out there to see what people think : P
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
I think what they need to do, and these would be small changes to start with, are the following:
Kicking a generator should deal 1% damage so that it at least matches Survivors hitting a great skill check
Survivors who begin repairing a regressing generator need to stay on it for 2 seconds to undo the regressing / this would alleviate the gen tap conundrum killers despise and making kicking the gen feel more even in terms of time spent
And finally, possibly look at base regression speed. Even just bumping it from 0.25 charges per second to 0.50 would be something. Preferably more imo
Idk, I think the core mechanics and stats of gens need tweaking moreso than making massive changes to all the existing perks that incentivize kicking gens.
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I understand the logic behind nerfing gen regression perks, but the specific changes you mentioned are all awful.
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Fair enough. Care to tell me how? Maybe you have better ideas : ) Like, why do you think they're awful and what would you do to limit synergy between these perks.
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Leave the Gen Regression perks alone (for now) but raise the base regression to .50
Doing that will increase the use for base kicking and Oppression
Blocked gens don't regress... Corrupt, Thrilling Tremors and Dead Man's Switch aren't gen regression they block progression for limited time
Ruin already blocks gen kicking... but it's a hex so it is removable
Having two gen regression perks seem to be needed for high ranks or one gen blocking and gen regression
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This is bait. I refuse to believe it's anything else. 10 seconds and 20% for Pop? Ruin permanently making it so gens can't be damaged? Pretty much all of your suggested changes would make everything absolutely useless. You don't even suggest something to balance the deficiency of gen stopping perks with your changes.
These are all horrible ideas. At that point it'd be better to just run all chase perks and hope that survivors forget what a generator looks like.
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I know that this is how the game is balanced, but in the same way that killers can say "leave gen regression alone for now, high mmr needs it" survivors can say "leave second chances alone high mmr needs it" and then nobody does anything and everyone just bickers at each other forever, nobody willing to think "ok what if the game were like this, could we take a step in that direction by giving up something we currently use".
I know blocked gens don't regress. But i believe they do explode by surge, and so do regressing gens. Everything I proposed was specifically to kill gen perk synergy so they would never be paired. At the same time, i proposed a better base kick, to level the field between using gen perks and not using them.
Dead man's switch, corrupt and thrilling can all be gen protection perks, so since the idea is to nerf gen perks to make the game healthier overal, i decided to consider them as a means to defend gens and thus change them accordingly.
I know that having two or more gen perks is necessary for high MMR, and I hate it.
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Not bait. My thesis statement is right at the start. Kill gen perk synergy so they don't work with each other. Make base kicks more useful to bridge the gap between having gen regression and not having it. Balance the game around gen perks not being stackable.
Obviously, in our current meta these ideas would be kinda miserable. This is a proposed compromise. Like, hey, if survivors had more objectives, or less second chances, or maps were smaller, loops less safe, etc, can we compromise on gen protection perks and their synergies.
Also, I gave pop a 10 second timer so it didn't stack with surge, but if you have a better idea for that, i'd like to hear it. I don't like the idea too much tbh. Also, I gave it 20% because, you can stack it with base kick damage, which in my proposal is 1% + 1% per every new survivor hooked. It would end up being 25%.
Like I said, these changes would have to come with some severe changes to how fast survivors can end games. I am fully aware of that.
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a lot of the perks are not very strong as is.
most can be negated within a few seconds and will require time to give any affect. which would mean stopping survivors from doing gens in general.
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True. I tried to get them all to around the level of my changed surge. Some are a bit stronger, but i tried to make them more consistent, instead of what we have where Ruin and pop are king and oppression is non existent.
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I'll be happy to use other perks that aren't gen regression x3 + bbq whenever the game starts balancing around decent survivors. Until then, you are FORCED to run those perks and even then you can still easily get swamped by gen speeds. However, I believe they will continue to ignore the BLATANT, MASSIVE problem with semi-high to high end gameplay. Nerfing deathslinger is proof. Everyone can see the blatant unbalance at higher mmrs, just tune into any killer streamer and look how much "fun" they are having. The unbalance also makes the game boring for both sides because killers are forced to camp and slug and do anything to even barely grasp at something that could be considered a "win" to them. There is no real gameplay at higher mmr and there is no killer identity at higher mmr. All those tricks you learned along the way are nothing because you can't even spare a second to pull them off. Better off facecamping as Bubba or better yet not playing the game.
There will be an update from the devs soon enough that will talk about statistics and I'm guessing to everyone's dismay that they will see "no problem" with high lvl play and will think it is fine. "The stats have proven it is all fine!" I hope that day comes soon so I can finally put the nail in the coffin and move on.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on2 -
You seem like a nice guy in your replies so I will try to keep this civil but - have you played a killer at a moderately high rank? I play both roles so I certainly feel the pain of "Holy #########, ruin is KILLING my fun in this game" and then when it's cleansed, it's either revived by undying or the killer has pop to cover the rest of the game. So I DO agree that the over reliance on gen regression and/or blocking perks may be an issue. However, I think it's that the killers are REQUIRED to bring these perks with a reasonable expectation to win. I also agree that we shouldn't simply just make gens take longer, as M1 for 80 seconds give or take with a couple of great skill checks is boring as all hell.
However. These perk nerfs are ludicrous. It would make killers at even a mid-rank miserable. We CANNOT nerf these perks BEFORE introducing a solution to gen speeds. A big part of this problem is stupidly big maps and overly safe loops. Now I don't want every loop to be like Hawkins, God no, but the fact that there is not one but TWO maps that have the house of pain (Badham and Haddonfield) is quite atrocious.
I'm all for changing up the meta and making it so that killers feel like they can run a bigger selection of perks than just ruin undying, ruin pop, jolt and pop, or whatever. But doing it by making the perks useless instead of fixing the fundamental problem with gen speeds and regression (because normal regression is a joke) is not the way about it.
(idk if i'm supposed to write edit here i just started using the forums) edit: i accidentally wrote revived by ruin instead of ruin being revived BY undying so i fixed dat.
Post edited by RampagingRice on0 -
You're going to receive very little support for this as you're thought process is out of touch with the what the reality of the game is.
Gen regression isn't the problem you think it is considering most gen regression perks don't synergize with each other to begin. Ruin's the only perk that generates passive regression and only has synergy with surveillance really. Pop requires killers to kick gens which if something is blowing like Thrilling tremors or repressed alliance then you can't kick it. Surge is fairly weak doesn't synergize with much of anything other than surveillance which doesn't add to regression just tracks its progress. Corrupt just prevents work from happening for a set amount time at the start of the trial and only on a handful of far away gens. Dead Man's Switch blocks, but doesn't harm progress and any time the entity's blocking a gen killers can't interact with it.
Eruption requires a kick and doesn't really regress the gen much at all. The danger is just getting shoved off when a killer comes back to check the explosion notice. Oppression and Overcharge can be prevented outright, but can be tough for new players.
All this is to say that the issue of gens needs to be addressed with the gen times and universal gameplay before taking a hatchet to a selection of perks that are already not doing their job that well. We've already had many changes to the way regression perks function which only served to highly how stilt the generator gameplay is. It's very difficult to keep have longer games even if you run a built with nothing but gen regression and blocking perks. Though most killers don't want to block gens because it actually hurts you more than it helps. Fixing this issue shouldn't require touching perks before addressing the universal gameplay around gens first.
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I am a 1600 hour killer main, and have twice that amount in watch time of good killer content creators. A blight main, who before sbmm spent 6 months or more where i lost at most 6 total games. I played against swfs with and without gen regression. I know that this game is imbalanced as hell towards survivors at high level. i know games end in 5 minutes or less at high level because gens go so quickly. I know killer is stupid complex with massive mechanical requirements. i know killers have too much on their plate every match. I know that gen regression is a requirement.
The thing is, I am tired of killers and survivors talking past each other. Every time you hear killers complain about gen rush and second chances, you'll hear survivors retort that killers stack up on gen regression, when it's the other way around, what's happening in this post is what you find. Killers not wanting to give up their stuff, because gen rush, and survivor second chances and everything else, I am fully aware they have.
And i am tired of neither side being willing to say "ok, get rid of my bullshit, i agree to compromise if you fix the game". Obviously this is just a forum post, completely inconsequential. But if we don't stop bickering at each other, if no one is willing to give up their poorly designed garbage because it's a bandaid on a bad foundation, until said foundation is fixed, then we're just gonna make each other miserable and resentful, forever talking past each other with whataboutisms.
None of these perks would be useless, they would be mildly useful. In the current meta they'll get destroyed, but i genuinely believe that stacking ######### on top of this bad foundation will only make it a ######### pile to the point where we can't even see the foundation anymore. We remove the #########, we can see the foundation for what it is, then we fix it.
I kinda knew i was going to recieve little positivity for this post, which is why I'm trying to be as friendly and receptive as possible when I reply to people. My ideas are bonkers, I know, but they do come from an honest place of "i think this could be part of the problem, how about if we look at it this way".
The thing is, I know that ruin pop dont directly synergyse, but i know for a fact they're excessively used to have a plan A and then a plan B. Ruin, Pop, Corrupt, and Tinkerer to boot. There, you have a bs build that focuses only on gens to give your self a chance of winning. I believe I address the plan A-plan B thing in my post. I was trying to address that, as well as any direct synergies these perks could have, as well as making them all of a standard strength so none of them are stupid broken compared to the others, and increasing the power of basic kicks, to make the difference between using gen perks and not using them, less impactful.
I don't know what the solution is, and even if I did it probably wouldn't matter. I'm not a dev, I'm just another person in the forums.
Either way tho. I am glad you engaged with the post in a cordial manner, and you were willing to give your feedback. I am happy for the discourse : )
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Nerfing every slowdown perk completely negates the point of adding base regression
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I kind of like the idea, but I feel it would be better to buff the perks because you more or less need regression if you want the game to last longer than 5 minutes against competent survivors. Maybe they should make one perk slot a "Regression" slot and one an "Exhaustion" slot just to be consistent. You cannot pick more than one, but you are not forced to pick one. That would probably be easier to balance.
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Thats a good option too. But we'd trust the devs with saying what a gen perk is or isn't.
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Imo a killer perk should never work against the killer. Not being able to kick gens? When corrupt is a single use perk will just kill the perk. Everyone knows that gens are already in a bad spot but I don't think nerfing gen regression will make it any better its just gonna confirm what we all know.
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IMO the best change they can do is just buff the base regression speed and tweak perks around it.
Buff the regression speed for kicking a gen to same as current ruin speed.
"nerf" ruin to 50/75/100% so its unchanged
nerf pop to 18% to account for the fact that the gen regresses faster afterwards. It's been a while since I thought of this idea and did hte math but I believe it catches up old pop in strength if the gen continues to regress uninterrupted for 30 seconds.
eruption is fine with the new regression speed
surge should work on special attacks, maybe consider getting rid of the cooldown OR giving it incapacitated to survivors working the gen like eruption does.
oppression needs a cooldown reduction but it could also do with incapacitated + a scream if a survivor fails the skill check
dead mans switch should be a scourge hook perk tied to scourge hooks rather than hooking the obsession
thrilling doesn't need any changes IMO its more info than slowdown.
when a survivor works on a regressing gen they should have to stay on it for at least a few seconds in order to stop the regression.
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This, repeat kicks on a gen should ramp up the damage.
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No. I can’t even begin to describe how awful this is. Playing killer at high MMR is already terrible, I bring up to 3 gen Defense perks some games and gens still fly vs efficient teams. This would be horrendous.
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Oh boy, well first. Try to play other killers without gen regression. Yeah, it's not hard to do with Blight. Try to do it with clown, wraith, myers etc. Good luck
about changes:
- Gens cannot regress or be damaged while blocked, and they cannot be damaged while regressing.
They already don't...
Base-kit regression that scales based on how you perform might be good.
about perk changes, oh boy...
So Corrupt, Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel would be useless.
Corrupt is not that good, when survivors can spawn next to open gen, not worth your nerf.
Pop -> 10 seconds really? Yeah we know, you are blight main you are everywhere, but some killers would not be able even walk to nearest gen to kick it....
Ruin -> is not that good alone, you can finish gens ignoring it and it is not hard to find on most maps. Yeah, we know you are Blight main and can pressure everyone everywhere.
Your changes would do nothing just destroyed few perks. You could still stack regression perks, just different then now.
Build I would use, which would be way stronger than any current = Eruption + Oppression + Surge.
Eruption and Oppression might be enough.
This also with your base-kit buff would be super strong.
Your changes would just make some perks useless.
It's hidden, but it would actually buff killers with that base-kit 5% regression and using perk that stacks with it.
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Holy survivor main batman.
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The problem you have here is you are asking EVERYTHING from killer without even giving almost anything back. This isn't how you balance a game, you think of the whole picture with changes like this and not just the half the screws over one side.
Make maps smaller to make the game more fair for non-mobile killers then nerf top tier killers like Nurse so they don't completely ######### on the new much smaller maps.
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Having a bonus regression doesn't do what you think.... Just up the base regression to .50 and see what happens was all I'm saying
I do agree that something does need to be done about our complaints but the changes you have proposed won't do what you think
Why do you think Killers stack on Gen regression perks in the first place? It's due to the fact that base regression sucks so bad
And what about Huntress Lullaby and Overcharge? Those 2 are gen regression perks but they work based on skillchecks
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I'm sorry but most of the changes you propose are just... terrible. This would make gen regression perks still mandatory just that even worse than they are now. You do realize that this 1% of gen speed that is supposed to make for all those insane nerfs to gen regression perks is not even 1 second of regression right?
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I have played other killers without gen regression. Before Blight I was a Slinger main, I like playing Demo, I have played and enjoyed playing Wraith even before his buff. Ghostface was one of the first killers I really liked to play. Clown before his buff was another one I gravitated towards at some point. Just because I became a Blight main, since Blight is the most fun thing in this game for me, doesn't mean I don't know or understand the plight of killers without mobility. In fact, the first thing I always say when talking about how strong x killer is, is whether or not it's weak to W.
Gens can be damaged by surge while regressing, and I think they can be damaged by eruption too. They can also be damaged by surge while blocked, i think, I might be wrong on that one. I know that gens do not regress while blocked. This was mainly my way of killing the synergy between something like surge and ruin.
They would be useless in our current meta, they would be about as useful as the other gen perks if the meta were to change, which is the presumption in this post, which unfortunately is not made clear. I think the game is balanced poorly, and this was me attempting to say: "Hey, would we be willing compromises like this so gen regression isn't ridiculous when stacked if we agreed to get rid of survivor bs"
I don't think Corrupt is the best thing ever. I was trying to kill how it can work as a plan A, then Pop or Ruin Undying as a plan B.
Pop 10 seconds is admittedly (i literally said it in the post), just there so it doesnt' synergize with surge, Again Plan A, Plan B. Surge for gens close by, Pop for gens far away. I wanted to kill that. In my mind I was thinking maybe pop, in this scenario, could be a perk to control a 3 or 4 gen, meaning you'd always be within that walking distance with regular movement speed killers. I dont like gen perks, I don't know why you'd assume I'd want it trashed so that only my precious Blight could use it, that's not my intention.
Blight is not the only one that gets value of ruin undying. Nemesis, Pinhead, Pyramid head, and other killers can make use of it pretty effectively. Again, my point was to kill it's plan A, Plan B thing with Pop.
Eruption would not stack with Oppression, I specifically said they would override and cancel each other. I guess surge should do a similar thing.
I don't think the base kit kick buff would be super strong. Get's to 5% only if you manage to hook everyone and otherwise gens regress at basic speed, and goes down as survivors die, so as to not create scenarios where survivors feel the game is unwinnable because of the pressure the killer is building. Although to be fair, surge and eruption would probably be too strong cuz they'd do 10% and 12% respectively. Oppression would just do 5% at most. Seems fine to me.
But it's fair enough. I wanted to see what people thought of these ideas, but I am 100% aware that the current meta is : mash gens in 3 minutes and stall with second chances. I fully expected this to be very unpopular, but the feedback I've gotten does give me good insight into how people think. I am grateful to anyone who interacted with this post.
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Problem is that you talked only about how to nerf gen regression perks, but they are needed, if you want to have chance against good survivors.
It might be different, if you come up with idea how to nerf survivors, so this would not become issue. But of course just let's nerf killers will not meet good feedback.
Game would be in even worse state than now with your changes imo. This is not something you can just do and let's see how it goes and cya in 5 months. You would lose a lot of killers for this. High MMR would become unplayable for most killers.
Pop 10 seconds is really bad. You said you don't like plan A, plan B, but problem is that 10 seconds is not enough for it to be plan A even close.
You hook survivor, you see someone working on gen across the map, but you can't use your regression perk for it even if you will have time to get there before they finish it.
Interesting idea would be too sort perks into categories and both survivors and killers could use only limited amount of perks.
But that would not work in practice, because some perks fit in multiple catagories and this would probably screw balance even more and game would be less fun with less freedom to do what you want.
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What do you think I think regression does? Maybe I'm just not making myself clear.
Also I completely forgot about Huntress Lullaby and Overcharge. I didn't think about them so I'm not sure what I'd do about them. This post was already long as it is so my bad for forgetting about those 😅
Upping base regression still means that a survivor can tap the gen and negate it. Immediately damaging a gen with a kick would prevent that, since a gen tap results in an extra x% damage to it if you kick it again. However increasing base regression to 0.5 instead of 0.25 could alleviate the problem with the base game too, I don't disagree with this idea.
Killers stack gen regression or gen protection perks, unfortunately, because time is too much in favor of survivors if they're efficient on gens. 3 gens can pop in a single chase, without much effort from the survivors at all and most maps give enough resources combined with the myriad second chances survivors have so that survivors can easily finish their objective and mostly making having to outplay the killer optional. I don't like this, and I'm fully aware of it. My idea with this post is: If we're willing to compromise on gen regression (then I threw some ideas on how. i'm sure smarter people could come up with better ones), would you be willing to compromise on second chances, map sizes, loop safety, etc etc.
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Aye. The post is already long as it is, but I guess it was a massive blunder of mine to not post at least a few ways in which the game could change to alleviate how stressful it would be with my proposed nerfs.
Obviously, I don't want to nerf killers without changes to the game and survivors. And I don't want survivors to just hold m1 for longer either. I'm right there with you. But hey! I'm glad you think that if there were changes to survivors and the game in general, these changes would be a lil more reasonable! 😅 I guess that sort of was my intention with the post but i messed up by not making it clearer. I might see if I can edit it to make it a lil more obvious.
To be fair high MMR is already pretty unplayable for so many people. It's the reason I thought of this. i constantly see neither side coming forward saying they'd give up something, so I wanted to try it cuz this game is not at a good state at higher skill levels, and I genuinely think gen perks are part of it, but maybe I'm wrong.
That's fair enough, the pop thing is a pretty bad idea, it was all I could come up with to kill it's synergy.
Maybe having a category for gen perks separate from everything would be the solution, some perks would need to be changed to specialize on that, but then we don't need to nerf them to kill their synergies. Although, we would be trusting the devs to decide what is and isn't a gen defense/gen regression perk, but maybe with that kind of focus they'd do a pretty good job at it.
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The nerfs are to change their synergies with each other and to make them all around the same level of strength....ish.
Also, the idea would be 1% + 1% extra per survivor hooked. With 4 survivors alive, you'd do 5% instant damage to gens without any perks if you hook all 4 survivors.
But, I must clarify. The intention of this post is not: Kill killers and barely give them anything to compensate lol. The intention was to say "hey, if we compromise on gen regression and make them not stackable and not as strong, can we compromise on other aspects of the game so that killers don't have to stack up on gen perks, and games can be more of a back and forth that doesn't end in 3 minutes?" However, i messed up communicating that, severely so.
Obviously, I would never suggest these nerfs if the rest of the game stays the same, and there would need to be severe changes to survivor and the core game to compensate for them.
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Oh yeah no, believe me, if I were to write what I think of the whole picture, I would have written an encyclopedia XD i didn't wanna make the post gigantic, I wanted to focus on a compromise to the power of gen perks from the killer side. Obviously there would need to be changes to survivor and the core game to compensate for this. I just wanted to propose possible compromises in gen regression, because too often I see both sides unwilling to give up anything and "whatabouting" each other.
Smaller maps would be one of the first things I'd do to compensate for this nerf to gen regression. Together with loops that are less safe and promote mindgames, get rid of god pallets. Severely reduce the amount of impact of second chance or safeguard perks, because there's no good reason for perks to stall for survivors as much as they currently do. Among other changes.
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No you made yourself clear... you don't like stacking gen regression I get that i don't like that either... but he way you have made to change that doesn't make much sense... maybe I missed something in that long post... LOL
Fair enough... People forget about those perks... I think Overcharge should be like normal skillchecks (seems that it isn't) and not much can be done to Huntress Lullaby (It does well for what it says it does)
Bonus regression doesn't do all that much seems that it's based on base regression and overall progress... so that's why I said to increase the base regression that's all
Yea I can agree that stacking gen regression perks is bad and all.... the same with "second chance" perks and map sizes and loop safety... but at the same time doing all of that will feel like a challenge without designed maps from the devs as like a blueprint so the algorithm can have a check and balance type of system
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There's no reason to nerf Corrupt like that. This would be a totally dead perk.
10s cooldown on Pop would be horrendous. I can barely find a gen in 45s sometimes.
There's no reason to prevent stacking gen perks. Killers often stack up to 3 gen perks as it is, and survivors still escape. They are not OP.
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Well I certainly appreciate your tone in your posts. I understand the points you are trying to get across with this post, but as I think many people have said in this thread, I think you are jumping the gun. I believe that we (or really, the devs) have to implement or at least PROPOSE base changes to the game before we start shifting perks around it, not the other way around. As much as we like to complain about BHVR and their speed, or lack thereof, I think everyone would admit changing how regression and gen speeds would be a MASSIVE undertaking for any studio and we can't just switch a couple numbers n go off to the races. So if we had changed the perks BEFORE we change how the game is played, especially to the extent you are suggesting, it would be quite miserable for a while for killers at a high level except for a select few such as very good Nurses, Spirits, Blights, maybe the rare couple of Hags you see now and then. As someone who plays Legion.... Errrrrrrr.. 😅
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I won't use Gen regression and slowing perks if you convince the world to stop rushing them. We have a paradoxical situation here is the bix open or closed?
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I however do like a bit of this. But too optimistic.
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Yes gen perks shouldn't stack, the ideas you gave however are pretty bad. Also if they ever do release a update where gen regression gets nerfed they have to and I repeat, HAVE TO bring it with a map reduction size or something to help combat current gen speeds. Kill rates are gonna drop HARD if they release it without something to make up for it.
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I don't run Ruin, Undying, and Pop because it gives me the best chances of winning, its because it gives me a *chance of winning.* They feel very mandatory. Nerf gens in some way (that isn't increasing repair times) and nerf gen regression perks.
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I would actually go one step further.
Gen regression is not to have a "chance of winning", it's to have a chance of a game not ending in 3 minutes regardless of your chases, even if you lose.
I know how it is. I don't like the game being balanced around gen regression.
But you know what, whatever. I firmly believe that this game will never change. And even if it does the changes are too slow, and there's life beyond DBD.
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