Killers wanting to have fun...
So, the biggest takeaway from these forums seems to be this general sentiment among people who "play both sides"..."Killer is stressful but the game is super balanced!" So my question is this...Is it such a sin for killer mains to actually want to have fun too? Why is there such a focus on survivor players "having fun" but killers are told to "get good", practice, learn how to do X or how to do Y, are told "Yeah, the killer role is stressful. If you don't like it quit."
It's just such a weird mentality and I don't get it.
Comments
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"If you don't like it just quit" is only said by a minority of players, but a pretty loud minority.
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I don't think it is super unbalanced in favor of survivors, the game is definitely balanced towards survivors being stronger but that really only matters at high lvl. Playing solo Q you will win most of the games because solo q is quite balanced because not a lot of people sweat in 4 man squads to win every game.
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We're not going to have a fun match if it doesn't go in our favor, unless we don't care about winning.
Right now those who play as killers, they're not having fun because they are barely get 1 or 2 kills.
I guess their mentality remained as it was even before the system was changed to SBMM. They come with a mentality that they are going to "win" in that match but in this game there is really no winner.
They can have fun with hooking survivors and not getting a kill.
Personally i find it fun and if i manage to get a kill, it's more fun but not a big deal.
It's very easy to enjoy this game but it has become a kind of competition.
My stress and frustration stopped completely when i decided to have fun with the match and not care about winning.
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Because survivors make more money in revenue; so they get everything they want.
Just buy more cosmetics at double the price of the actual characters and you will really start to enjoy the game!
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There is a fundamental problem with this mentality: For killers to have a fun easy game the survivors feel hopeless while getting stomped and vice versa for survivors that want an easy game, killers getting blown out with gen rushes and no hooks. One side is having a blast in god mode with cheats enabled and the other is just a prop to stroke their ego. When the game is balanced, both sides will need to play with the same skill and intensity.
This is the genius of the sbmm (or MMR if you prefer). However you play, you will eventually be matched against folks of your skill level and intensity. All you have to do is just not play like a sweat lord, use meme perks, gift hatch, or give free hooks. Imagine every victory as climbing a step of the ladder, every time you go up you get higher skill players that are trying hard, and every time you lose you take a step down. It could not be simpler. So please for the love of god please stop begging the Devs to make the game easier for you.
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I've got 10,000 hours on this game and majority of them in the killer side and I disagree with you, I really believe it depends on which killer you pick , if you pick like clown , legion, or a killer with zero map pressure I mean yea it can feel super unbalanced because you're not equipped to pressure the gens and you have survivors trash talking you in the endgame like they're a god for bringing four toolboxes against a clown, but if you play like oni, blight, spirit , nurse you actually have a chance to be the power role even if they're focusing gens and good survivors , it's all about decision making at that point but that's just my opinion and it's ok if you don't agree with me
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And there's nothing wrong with any of mentioned statements. When u play killer u should keep in mind u are going against 4 players and u need to figure out how to outplay each one. So to have some fun u need to fight for it and be good at chasing. Unless u want to play against AI survivors u need to be much better than average survivor.
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I can have fun as killer providing:
No bs map.
If I use a totem build they dont get spawned on/next to gen
The killer I'm playing hasn't randomly been put in a stupid high MMR even though iv never played them.
Theres no BM, I honestly just hate the type of people that wish to ruin the killers or other people's experience. Be a grown up and treat people with respect.
Honestly both sides can be fun, survivor I feel is just more fun and stress free usually because you focus on you and how you're doing, and if you play well its shown unlike killer where you naturally manage more in a game, and the idea that some matches you just have to loose because you didnt have meta, the map or your killer cannot compete at such a level.
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I'd rather hooks over kills, hooks mean I was able to do chases and a good game, kills just mean I could of camped or used noed etc. 2kills can be 2hooks, but it can also mean 10hooks.
Hell I'd take 9hooks and 3 people escape every match. Kills isnt important to me, fun and game length is. An example is my nemesis is in stupid high mmr (can tell by their movement) but if not played him, so it's very unfun to try learn him and get 2hooks, verse the same team as a killer I know and can play I can do wayyyy better.
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For me, as a killer, fun doesn't equal kills. It means playing and feeling like I'm accomplishing something. There's a lot in this game that just negates everything a killer does. As a killer you often feel impotent and that's not fun. You take a hex, it's broken before even you know where it is. You down a survivor in a chase and any one of a number of things happen; flashlight blind, hook sabo, endless body blocking, etc. Individually these things aren't so bad but when they are piled on repeatedly in a single game and this happens game after game? I can see why so many players are switching from killer to the survivor role.
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I've always been curious why there's been this massive push to ensure killers require a ton of mechanical skill and veteran game knowledge to have a chance to do well. The survivor role takes zero skill to be successful. It just requires holding one button, being on comms with friends, and knowing to split up. That's it
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@BrokenSouI You're right a good amount of the lower tier killers can't handle that without resorting to dirty tactics to get kills I'm not gonna deny that, but the mid to higher tier killers also exist and can absolutely handle those maps if they play correctly, the difference between a average and a good killer/survivor come out when you have some of those ######### spawns you're speaking of , survivors have control at the beginning of a chase but alot of killers don't play correctly on loops and don't realize they're giving the survivor more control I'll give an example: you're at a long wall jungle gym and outside the window is a pallet that's nearby but not too close , that's a good setup for the survivor they're gonna try to run through the pallet right hit that window and loop it along with whatever pallet is outside the window, a average killer will follow them right to the window and allow the survivor to play it , a good killer will not go through the pallet but go right and make them choose to vault the window and take a hit on the other side or be forced back the way they came by doubling back to the pallet and forcing a hit going in that direction forces you into a deadzone from going back the way you entered into the tile and reduces the distance you're able to gain, Alot of these people that complain don't realize they can force the direction that the survivor runs a loop and that's huge! But also knowing when survivors are in a completely safe area and when to force a pallet drop and go back to gens is just as important as doing the tiles correctly it's too easy for someone to get caught up in a super long chase thinking they can catch them quick but in reality sometimes there's so much safety you'll have to hit and go to apply pressure
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FUN?
No Fun.
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I would argue even mid to hier tier killers can't compete on some of those maps, especially maps like Cowshed. That map is just broken. That is at the very high level of play of course. Except for Blight, Spirit and Nurse of course. Maybe killers like Oni or Twins as well.
On the more balanced maps, the game has a fair amount of viable killers though, in my opinion.
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I don't play solo survivor anymore. I have the opposite view that you posted OP. Solo survivor is not really that fun, it's not stressful but it's frustrating to get constantly placed with people who seem to have half a working brain. Which is now often ever since Mr. X got put into the game. But I now find the other role less frustrating, I used to think what you posted OP survivor was more fun, and stress free. But overall for the other role to become fun you have to get off this 'I have to get 4 sacrifices mentality'. I used to get stress because I wanted the 4 sacrifices, but since I no longer have that as my goal I have lot more fun. Because It allows me to get off the meta builds and try out fun builds, and I have all the control so when I get zero sacrifices it's because of me. And not some empty-minded person as solo que has often become full of now...
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Oppresed killers don't buy cosmetics or something?
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Storehouse makes me want to quit when it loads in. Everyone just runs directly to the little window loop and there is nothing you can do but lose 3 gens and brute force it.
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"I just want to have fun!" is often code for "I just want to win!" This is true of both sides. Occasionally you get people who actually mean "Yeah, I want to have fun. This isn't fun."
There's nothing wrong with wanting to have fun. But if fun is what you care about, you shouldn't complain when you lose. After all, you just want to have fun, right? Can you not have fun without winning? That's a pretty sad mindset. Some of the most fun games I've played in DBD were games I lost. On both sides.
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I play both sides, for me, killer is stress mode, survivor is relax mode. Survivor games are more fun, you are expected to lose as a solo player, yet they're fun and the pressure is off. As killer, its kill or be teabagged at the exit gates 😅
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I would even argue that hag could be in there with those killers she is one of the most underrated killers in this whole game alot of people don't realize how powerful she can be , also on those maps you speak of when I'm a lower tier killer that's the type of map where I'll just let the gen go in that OP area and I pick the 4 closest gens with the least safety around them and I constantly keep pressure on them while only committing to chases I know I can end quick, you realistically can't use all the lower end killers at high level play and expect it to go well unless you're using a strategy like that and slugging along with it and on that topic I agree that they need buffed but killer as a whole I feel like is in a really good place right now in this game
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Unless I'm getting completely clowned on all match, it doesn't REALLY matter how many survivors I kill. I just want two things:
- The feeling that I'm more or less being matched against players of around my skill level
- The killer's power to be both fun to use and helpful in the course of playing the game.
The various killer nerfs that go through almost exclusively make killers less fun to play. Pyramid Head can put down his sword to maybe use his shockwave, then pull it up to swing instead? Too fun! Nerfed! Freddy can toss down traps at full movement speed to pepper the terrain with slow down so that when his target falls asleep, the stage is a minefield? Too fun! Nerfed! Deathslinger can get kinda close and insta-shoot his harpoon without having to worry about precise aiming issues? Too fun! Nerfed!
And then, consider the killers who were nerfed in inception to have their powers not be fun: Nemesis has zombies? Sweet! Too bad only two of them, they have terrible pathing, and their speed is so trivial that only the smallest of indoor stages ever see use. Blight's super fast? Great! But oh wait, his camera is so low you can't see anything and random objects in the environment don't 'count' for collisions.
Or, my personal favorite: Trickster can click a button to throw knives like crazy like a charged power? Awesome! Too bad it's hard to build up, the charge decays, it disappears if you don't use it fast enough, it's slow to start, and (now) you have to have a minimum number of knives to even turn it on! Like holy crap, could Main Event be WORSE? And for no good reason, either. Somebody just said "this power should not be fun to use."
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“…..super unbalanced in favor of SWF.” FTFY
Like all Asymetrical Horror Games. Very unfortunate.
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I want to have fun. Id like to win but that is secondary to me. If i lose but it was a good game then i dont care i lost. If i lost because i was playing poorly, bad rng or i got out played, fine. However if no matter what i do if i get 0ks, hardly any hooks and the gens were done in 4 mins, then it becomes a problem. Its not a matter of win/lose. I want to be able to stand a chance. In matches like the above, this is what makes me play something else.
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This is a great point that people tend to overlook. Once people learn how to play a game and work together as a team, it becomes extremely hard to balance in a way where new players don't get completely obliterated. Friday the 13th had this problem as well. When the game first came out, everyone was terrified of Jason and scared to do objectives, fight him, etc. Once players figured out how to exploit the combat mechanics in such a way that you could mob up and fight him directly and he couldn't do anything about it, it was over, he was bully material. They had to try to buff him to extreme levels by the end of the game's tenure to deal with it.
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I think those are great suggestions. These nerfs wouldn't impact new players at all because they'd still go down in the same amount of time because they don't understand how to abuse and exploit broken structures, but it would bring very good players more in balance with the average killer. Personally, I don't mind playing against SWFs for the challenge. I understand that the game is stacked against me. I just find it annoying getting BMed by the side that has everything going in their favor. They even have to send you to Cowshed and Haddonfield to make sure you really get dominated. It's great
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For survivor play, I'd just like to see things be more suspenseful. Right now I worry about very little when I play survivor. I'd like to see more risk/reward situations.
Maybe suffer from being exposed while saboing a hook or using a flashlight. I do it right, I get a benefit. I screw it up? I go down.
I would love for there to be some sort of risk/reward with vaulting pallets. Either through a perk or just general play. I'd like there to be a chance that when I vault a pallet for it to break and for me to suffer a wound level or something. Back when I played Friday the 13th one of the tensest moments was jumping through a window and wondering just how injured but it I was going to be.
That's why survivor is unfun for me to play, there's just no tension. No suspense. The killer has a giant red flashlight on his chest, so I always know when he's coming. I can screw up a vault and still be fine because I can immediately vault again. Missing skill checks isn't a big deal when I do miss them.
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Im agree with this guy.With certain killers u have a chance and its fun but when u get the tryhard SWF squad u have only chances with 2 killers.
I play as killer 85% 15% on Solo Q and most of the unfun momments its due to I get teammates that arent according my skill.
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No, they'll tell you the game is unbalanced but in both directions depending on context.
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If we're going to be honest? The real question to ask here is: "why isn't this game being considered competitive?" Balance from there, and EVERYONE will have fun.
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So here's the inherent problem, survivors have a goal of gen completion with the player interaction of chasing. Even if you don't survive, a good survivor game should be one where you feel like you did something. You affected the final standings of the game. You did a gen, you found no ed, took a protection hit, you ran the killer for x distance, you managed to hide, etc. For the killer, that's only really manifested in getting hooks.
A beginner has no idea if they're slowing gen progress. A killer doesn't really know if they're successfully harassing the whole team. What they know are hooks and downs. The only controllable portion of killer gameplay that they have complete knowledge of, is "I took you guys down this many times." Which depending on the survivors isn't in your control at all. With good map selection, good palette placement, and good enough survivors, you can't get that single controllable aspect of your game to feel controllable.
Behavior likely wants to add side objectives (boon totems) to killer to address that but without these objectives impacting survivors in a noticeable way, it just makes a hard job even harder without any idea of success or reward.
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In my opinion killer is fun
Just particular ones aren't fun to play at all aka hag nurse etc
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Fair enough. Not sure if I can completely agree, I would say killer or just the game's balance in general is in a pretty decent state, but there is still room for improvement.
I think one thing that is still a problem with killer, beyond the question whether the game is balanced or not, is that killer can feel very stressful, sometimes even if you had a chance to win the match. Which is just a product of the game's design. I certainly don't think it's as bad as some people say it is though.
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This is the core problem.
Killers can't be balanced around SWF, because that would be miserable for solos.
Killers can't...well, shouldn't be balanced around solos, because then they just get rolled over by any similarly skilled players in a 4man.
The easiest solution - and I've made it before - is to copy what other companies have done with MMR, and attach a scaling MMR increase to people playing in a premade. Like...1.1x for a 2man, 1.3 for a 3man and 1.6 for a 4man.
This means that playing in a SWF will put you up against a proportionally more skilled killer, to compensate for the increased coordination.
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how to ruin the game 101. Just balance things, dont make crappy new mechanics for the sake of being bad
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I have been watching a lot of killer mains with thousands upon thousands of hours a lot since the MMR was added. These people even struggle to do well and they have 3k+ hours. One dude has 7k hours and today he struggled to even get a 1k multiple games. When the survivors know what they are doing and play to win, it doesn't matter how good you are at killer. They are always favored to win and especially so when they are a SWF on coms.
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How do you know this is not already a factor in the matchmaking?
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Perhaps. All I know is from my experience in other pvp games, developers do not want stacks to throw a hissy fit once they realize their opponents are higher mmr to compensate for the fact that they are grouped. A lot of people perceive it as a "punishment" for playing with friends. Albeit, the practice is very standard. So I would be extremely surprised if we didn't have something like that in DBD at the moment.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
I kinda don't wish for that when playing with my girlfriend but I understand why it would be in place.
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Shrug. I play a lot of Heroes of the Storm with my wife, and I totally accept that we have a massive coordination advantage that other players likely don't. I really don't mind it, and we tend to do really well regardless as our standard tank/assassin or support/assassin pairing (she is inevitably the assassin in that equation).
I'd perceive it as a necessary step towards fairness, If I was a survivor main. And with maybe 2/3 of killer complaints on the forums still being at least tangentially about SWF, I'd like to think that BHVR wouldn't just sneak something like this in.
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the only problem when playing survivor right now is the lack of variety, only nurses, spirits and blights, really gets boring. is unfun for survivors playing against the same killers over and over again, especially consdiering how strong they are, we should get to a balance where both sides can have fun.
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That’s actually sounding fairly brilliant! Haha
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These suggestions are all awful. You really want your hand held as a killer don't you? You sound like you play killer 99% of the time and every once in a great while you play an urban evading Meg to "have fun." No, no and NO.
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Game is balanced against solos, but not swf.
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See while everything you said is reasonable, there are unfortunately a lot of really unreasonable people here. Risk/reward gameplay on survivor? Pffft- Not while the very loud minority cries about how they feel helpless when facing laughably weak killers like Legion (yes I have legit seen people cry about Legion being OP on here). Unfortunately this game is made to coddle the survivors, giving them all the second chance perks in the world to erase a mistake that they made with their gameplay. I've legit had survivors who I mind game and outplay just use Dead Hard at the last second to erase the fact that they over extended or made a bad play. Then I get teabagged for it... =/
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What do you mean by fun exactly?
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I don't think it has to be either/or. We want close matches where both sides are playing well and are allowed to play well. Killers usually aren't allowed to play when gens fly. And you can say the same for a survivor getting camped, because technically they're playing right and doing everything they can do, but against a competent team that killer's only gonna get that single kill. Whereas when killers play right and do all they can do, it usually ends up in a 1k or a 0k. So one side is clearly more pressured to play 'scummy' than the other, because doing so gives better average results than playing right. Gen speed is the root of the problems, I'd say, because both sides are having fun when they both get many chases in, which gen rush gives no time for. So longer matches, which can be achieved by slowing down gens, is what will make this game more fun, less stressful, and allow more room for variety.
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The problem with SBMM is the same problem ranks had (once they finally gave killers actual matchmaking back, which took ages).
It's incredibly easy to smurf your MMR down as a team simply by AFKing.
I've seen it plenty, both in terms of a team of 3-4 players entirely AFK, or running into incredibly skilled and coordinated teams who play way beyond the level of the standard 'intermediate' players I usually play against at my undoubtedly mediocre MMR.
You know the exact type - the sort who do 4 gens before you've even downed someone and then play hide and seek for half an hour.
And before you ask, I can't even find anecdotal evidence of someone being banned for AFKing or 'holding the game hostage'. I'd guess that these reports are mostly to do with gathering metrics.
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🎶 Killers just want to have fu-un 🎶
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There is nothing reasonable about the suggestion to have RNG dictate wether you survive or just get downed for free. At that point, the game stops being about survival and just becomes a stealth game, since survivors would have no hope once spotted.
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I bet you have no problems with Kobe's though... :)
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