Power role

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

So you do not understand the core mechanic for asymetrical games?
Do you want us to explain?

Peasant

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

In an asymmetrical game, a team of 2 or more players that are statistically weaker than 1 other player must use coordination and teamwork to overcome the singular player that will have more power, the power role. Dead by Daylight may be a "horror" game but it an asymmetrical horror game. The game needs to be balanced around 4 survivors working together to overcome 1 killer otherwise the player base will eventually grow bored and leave. The key is reaching a perfect balance. Survivor needs to be challenging and scary without feeling like a chore. At the same time, the killer must be fun to play as without being too luxurious as otherwise, we will see too few hosts and not enough connectors, which creates problems.

AChaoticKiller

Peasant said:

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

In an asymmetrical game, a team of 2 or more players that are statistically weaker than 1 other player must use coordination and teamwork to overcome the singular player that will have more power, the power role. Dead by Daylight may be a "horror" game but it an asymmetrical horror game. The game needs to be balanced around 4 survivors working together to overcome 1 killer otherwise the player base will eventually grow bored and leave. The key is reaching a perfect balance. Survivor needs to be challenging and scary without feeling like a chore. At the same time, the killer must be fun to play as without being too luxurious as otherwise, we will see too few hosts and not enough connectors, which creates problems.

Exactly, this is why white noise 2 died. It was fun and scary to play but winning as a survivor was next to impossible. You could also die 1 minute into a match and the monsters were so unbalanced that even the weakest one could easily win let alone the stronger ones.

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

So you do not understand the core mechanic for asymetrical games?
Do you want us to explain?

Except none of you really understand what "power role" is meant to be. The DM in DnD is the power role, because he is literally in command of the game. He is the God of the game, in a sense.

Killer is a not meant to be a power role. You are the "aggressor", meaning that you are the one to force action, but you are by no means meant to be "in command" of the game. Likewise, survivors don't command the game. They can't stop a killer from camping/tunneling someone if the killer so choose. They control the pace of the game (to an extent) and that's it. Neither side is designed to be a power role and neither side acts as power role in practice. You merely have an aggressor (killer) and defender (survivor).

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

So you do not understand the core mechanic for asymetrical games?
Do you want us to explain?

Except none of you really understand what "power role" is meant to be. The DM in DnD is the power role, because he is literally in command of the game. He is the God of the game, in a sense.

Killer is a not meant to be a power role. You are the "aggressor", meaning that you are the one to force action, but you are by no means meant to be "in command" of the game. Likewise, survivors don't command the game. They can't stop a killer from camping/tunneling someone if the killer so choose. They control the pace of the game (to an extent) and that's it. Neither side is designed to be a power role and neither side acts as power role in practice. You merely have an aggressor (killer) and defender (survivor).

So sweet… you keep showing your cluelessness … that's so funny^^

How about you stop embarrassing yourself?

Survivor are in charge and determine the pace of the game, they are "in control" and so they are the "power role".
What they are not, is a "defender", because the KILLER is the defensive role, he protects stuff from being taken by the "aggressor" (survivor). The killer is protecting his objectives and catches.

Get you crap straight before you bring false assumptions.

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

So you do not understand the core mechanic for asymetrical games?
Do you want us to explain?

Except none of you really understand what "power role" is meant to be. The DM in DnD is the power role, because he is literally in command of the game. He is the God of the game, in a sense.

Killer is a not meant to be a power role. You are the "aggressor", meaning that you are the one to force action, but you are by no means meant to be "in command" of the game. Likewise, survivors don't command the game. They can't stop a killer from camping/tunneling someone if the killer so choose. They control the pace of the game (to an extent) and that's it. Neither side is designed to be a power role and neither side acts as power role in practice. You merely have an aggressor (killer) and defender (survivor).

So sweet… you keep showing your cluelessness … that's so funny^^

How about you stop embarrassing yourself?

Survivor are in charge and determine the pace of the game, they are "in control" and so they are the "power role".
What they are not, is a "defender", because the KILLER is the defensive role, he protects stuff from being taken by the "aggressor" (survivor). The killer is protecting his objectives and catches.

Get you crap straight before you bring false assumptions.

Killer chases survivors, meaning there are the aggressor and survivors are defenders (though I admit aggressor/defenders are not the most EXACT words here as both sides can perform offensive and defensive types of actions, point is that they are the opposite of what the killer is). If you can't see that simple thing then you're just blind.

Survivors determine the pace of the game TO AN EXTENT. But it's not beyond the killer's control to affect the pace of the game too. Hook 1, slug 1, watch the game come to a standstill. Killer can also choose to defend the 3 closest generators so that they can control the pace once the game reaches a certain point. Offer a mori and off someone super quick to slow down the game CONSIDERABLY. Therefore in a sense, both parties control the pace of the game in a sort of tug-of-war, survivors want to speed up the game while killers want to slow it down. And if this is the case, then neither side can be considered a true power role, as a power role implies that one side has complete control over the game.

Also can you ever make a point without resorting to ad hominems?

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
There shouldn't be a "power role", just survivors vs killers.

So you do not understand the core mechanic for asymetrical games?
Do you want us to explain?

Except none of you really understand what "power role" is meant to be. The DM in DnD is the power role, because he is literally in command of the game. He is the God of the game, in a sense.

Killer is a not meant to be a power role. You are the "aggressor", meaning that you are the one to force action, but you are by no means meant to be "in command" of the game. Likewise, survivors don't command the game. They can't stop a killer from camping/tunneling someone if the killer so choose. They control the pace of the game (to an extent) and that's it. Neither side is designed to be a power role and neither side acts as power role in practice. You merely have an aggressor (killer) and defender (survivor).

So sweet… you keep showing your cluelessness … that's so funny^^

How about you stop embarrassing yourself?

Survivor are in charge and determine the pace of the game, they are "in control" and so they are the "power role".
What they are not, is a "defender", because the KILLER is the defensive role, he protects stuff from being taken by the "aggressor" (survivor). The killer is protecting his objectives and catches.

Get you crap straight before you bring false assumptions.

Killer chases survivors, meaning there are the aggressor and survivors are defenders (though I admit aggressor/defenders are not the most EXACT words here as both sides can perform offensive and defensive types of actions, point is that they are the opposite of what the killer is). If you can't see that simple thing then you're just blind.

Survivors determine the pace of the game TO AN EXTENT. But it's not beyond the killer's control to affect the pace of the game too. Hook 1, slug 1, watch the game come to a standstill. Killer can also choose to defend the 3 closest generators so that they can control the pace once the game reaches a certain point. Offer a mori and off someone super quick to slow down the game CONSIDERABLY. Therefore in a sense, both parties control the pace of the game in a sort of tug-of-war, survivors want to speed up the game while killers want to slow it down. And if this is the case, then neither side can be considered a true power role, as a power role implies that one side has complete control over the game.

Also can you ever make a point without resorting to ad hominems?

lol
I am just using YOUR terminology and the killer are "defending" stuff, still you call me blind for seeing it otherwise.. your are so funny.^^
It's really entertaining seeing you not having a clue about the words you use… tell me again.. what do you see as "ad hominem"? (Just for giggles.)

Bravo0413

Tsulan said:

Not my experience at all. I play only solo and the only time survivors lose, is when someone disconnects early.

So survivors are still the greatest threat to themselves.



This /\ it is not the killer.... the survivors doom themselves! 

Purr

not all killers are viable at rank 1 i use the teir list from the killers discords and they rank each killer based on power with no addons and no perks played at maxium skill taking into account current buffs and nerfs and bugs nurse billy and hag are the easiest to be viable with as their power is strong and perks and addons only increase that power rest of the killers are under that with killers that are good but need a addon or perk to be really powerful killers that MUST have addons and perks to be good and killers with any addons and perks have an extremly hard time also like what peasant said this is supposed to be a 4v1 assymetrical game and each survivor is supposed to be 25% of the killers power ratio but honestly atm id say survivors are roughly maby 30 to 40% of a killers power ratio possibly stronger and until the devs can balance this as orginally intended it wont be a balanced game
also anyone throwing out im rank 1 on both sides so i must be right there are a ton of people who have played the game just as long but literally refuse to ever hit rank 1 as its toxic never any fun cancerous af and no reason to hit high rank in a game that has never been seen as competitive im personally am 1 of those i dont have alot of game time only about 600 hours but i dont think ill ever go for rank 1 as every thing ive heard from big name streamers to friends and my GF who plays that rank 1 isnt worth the time or effort to get to since it is just plain toxic and seriously long que times but that doesnt mean my opinion is any less invalid

DarkWo1f997

I have never had a problem playing against a killer as survivor. Just hide better.  Hide as much as possible.  

alivebydeadight

survivors are to have a challenge, killers are bloodpoints big deal, killers are how they should be, survivors are how they should be, killers should be stronger than the survivors, besides kruger he doesnt count

AChaoticKiller

@purr I'd like to see this list, not calling you out. I just want to know what people place the mid rank killers at, feel free to post a link. As far as how strong survivors are your pretty spot on except when there's a try hard swf team it feels pretty hopeless to try to get more than a kill. I will say tho that you should try to hit rank 1 on both sides at least once to have a experience of what its like, makes it easier to understand others on some subjects. For me I got about 1k hours and I go to rank 1 as killer mainly because I hate destroying the low to mid rank teams. However as a survivor I try to go for rank 5 since I feel its a good area to play. My only wish concerning rank is the devs give out rewards like shards based on your rank. This would make the grind for useless cosmetics a little nicer.

AChaoticKiller

Whisky_Glass said:

You said "each game"
If it happened regularly the first thing i'd try to do is see where i'm failing at, see other players running the same killer and stuff. Then if i see it's a common thing then yeah, i would ask for a buff, but i've seen different players using non-top killers in a way that made them top tier killers. Last time was yesterday against an astonishing clown who kept the map pressure so well, i was the only one who managed to escape through the hatch with only 2 gens done, and i can assure you we were playing efficiently.

Any killer can get a 4k however its the consistency that matters. A killer that gets a ton of 1k regardless of play styles against a good competitive team is a bad killer or low tier. Killers who usually get 2k or 3k (not because of hatch) are decent killers also known as mid tier. Finally killers who 4k constantly like billy, Good nurses, and good hags are the top killers, the high tier. This is usually what I find when people talk about how good a killer is.

To the devs a "balanced killer" gets about 2k a match. However to the dbd community this is considered a tie or a loss to the killer regardless of the side. Because of this a "balanced killer" to the community is actually a killer who can 3k or 4k often regardless of what the devs say.

BigBubs

Lol "balance" and "power role" don't really go together xD

Purr

this is one they use @AChaoticKiller

Wolf74

@BigBubs said:
Lol "balance" and "power role" don't really go together xD

And here we go again…
In an asymetrical game, there is one side with the advantage in numbers and one in advantage of "power", that 2nd one is referred to as "the power role".
And an asymetrical game is "balanced" when all player from the numberous side combine are the same strength as the "power role".

AChaoticKiller

@purr freddy is a b tier? I can agree with s tier but the rest is something I can't. Like to me huntress is not equal to Fred and wraith and pig should be switched with huntress. Also clown should be A tier. That's just my opinion tho.

Rex_Huin

Yeah what's wrong with the Clown? I think he's pretty good.

OGlilSPOOK20

😂😂😂 No... No! Survivors are not in the power role anymore. With a lot of these changes that are benefiting the killer way more... Killer is in the power role. But like Uncle Ben once said, "With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility." Sooo it's up to you... The killers to end chases quicker which it likely now because of a lot of pallet changes/moves and nerf to exhaustion perks help you out. I still see killers camping and tunnelling just throwing games away. Pick ups are faster... Hooking is faster... They fixed a lot of the loops that were op... They nerfed healing... They're gonna nerf ds soon (thank god)... A lot of the weaker killers got buffed/getting reworked... They're coming up with ideas to have survivors have other objectives to do... They're making end game with the last survivor interesting other then having a hatch standoff (Idc about standoffs... I let them go if I have 3 kills, just move on to the next game.) Sad that killers expect 4k's every game... And killers are still crying lol.

Purr

@AChaoticKiller @Rex_Huin clown is bugged atm and his bottles explode in his hand even if u have clear line of sight as for freddy and huntress think they are decently map needy plus need addons/perks to be decent
piggy and wraith are underrated and have alot of poteintal but are skill reliant and addon needy at times but can cope without

AChaoticKiller

Purr said:

@AChaoticKiller @Rex_Huin clown is bugged atm and his bottles explode in his hand even if u have clear line of sight as for freddy and huntress think they are decently map needy plus need addons/perks to be decent
piggy and wraith are underrated and have alot of poteintal but are skill reliant and addon needy at times but can cope without

Ok I can see your point but still, Freddy imo is not b tier he is at most c tier. I assume that with clown if he was not bugged he would be A tier. Well it kinda sucks for me since I got 2 clown daily's ive been avoiding