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Hypocrisy in Balancing
Remember the nerf to Hex Undying? This was the statement released by the developers:
”Transferring the same Hex multiple times can get out of hand: Hexes are meant to be strong perks that can be destroyed, and having to destroy the same Hex four times can be a bit much.”
In the September developer update, the devs describe Boon Totems as “much like Killers Hex Totems” in that they “are tied to Survivor Perks”. I know some people love to be technical and claim that by saying “much like” it shouldn’t be taken as a direct comparison. Well that’s wrong. Keep reading.
So obviously they are trying to create the survivor equivalent of Hex Perks here. We have a couple of perks to start, but more will come with the potential of game breaking effects (unlimited Unbreakable for the whole team within the aura?). However, we all know that even if a killer snuffs out a Boon Perk it can be relit indefinitely by the survivors. So where’s the consistency?
If you (BHVR) thought it was “a bit much” that FOUR survivors, who already have access to totem-finding perks and Maps, have to cleanse 4 totems then why is it not “a bit much” for ONE killer player to have to scour a map to snuff out a totem that can just be relit?
If BHVR wants to introduce new mechanics (Boon Totems) with strong effects that shake up the meta that’s great! But it would be nice if the survivor bias and hypocrisy wasn’t so apparent.
Comments
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i mean, nothing surprising.
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And people can try and disregard this post, but I’m including direct quotes from BHVR to support my argument.
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the thing is, that forum posts dont matter in the end. especially when it comes from the one side. I already said to much.
ban incoming.....
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I don’t expect BHVR to read this or even make changes if they do, just pointing out how they nerf something when it’s “not fun”, “a bit much” or “wee bit overpowered” for one side…
But then they turn around and give the exact same thing to to the other side.
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yup
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Snuffing a totem out is much quicker and easier than cleansing/blessing a hex totem.
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So would you rather killers would be able to relight their totems but they only work within a 24 meter radius?
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Ye well, having to do it ten times in a trial where gens are already flying at a fairly high mmr, is it fair for you ?
Fact is most players stating that the game is balanced enough for killers to enjoy it are players that play only survivor. It means you have no idea of what the current state of the game is and you are terrible survivors as you don't know how to play killers and so how to counter them.
But you still come on every thread to argue that nothing is unbalanced in favor of survivors.
The game is heavily survivor sided at high level and with the next update it will be even more survivor sided. But plot twist, some of you survivor mains won't see it as you can't play survivor properly :).
BTW, i'm a 50/50 high skilled player on both side so i know what i'm talking about.
PS : and i admit that playing survivor in soloQ is trash but it's BHVR's fault with their broken unworking MMR.
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4 survivors looking for totems versus 1 killer. Your point?
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I don't think they care about meta. If they actually did, there should be massive meta perks nerf on both sides. Boons are strong but not enough to stop using DS DH BT or any other strong perk. Mb as 4th perk slot they are great, but it's not game best perk.
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That has nothing to do with the specific points addressed.
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They have the potential to be very strong, especially in a SWF. All you need is one guy running Circle of Healing away from a 3 gen and you can win that battle of attrition with the killer more handily.
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I dont mind the snuff thing, but Hex like Plaything & Noed should trump over Boon.
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But the killer loses a perk, survivors don't. You keep the Totems forever, 5 totems forever that you can bless anytime you want. Hexes are a 1 and done deal. Why do you think Undying was created in the first place? Even then Undying is a Hex it suffers the same weakness that it tries to remove from other Hexes. Undying could not be a Hex and be a 1 and done deal like Lethal Pursuer and the practical result is the same. Undying does it's cover job once and then deactivates. Or they could make it so It protects Hex totems for a limited time. LEt's say it would work like Corrupt Intervention, 2 mins of any Hex being up. That guarantees 2 mins of something vs the potential to lose both Undying and whatever Hex you're covering in 20 seconds.
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They didn't say they were the same as hexes, they said they were the same in the fact they are perks lmao. Boons are not the same as hexes and shouldnt be seen that way. If you choose to, that is on you
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Sure, but it won't shake meta for survivors. I mean they won't stop using meta perks. It just buffs it. If good survivors were pain to handle before, now they are even better. And a single guy with 1 boon totem is now a guy with infinitive med kits.
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you had a point until this post where it went from semi-reasonable to crackpot conspiracy theory and that just really isn't a look.
you may be interested in this one xo
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Correction: 1 guy with the healing boon essentially gives self care to themself and **the entire team as well.
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Emm... yeah, i should write that he can drop those med kits all over.
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ha.
very funny.
i dont even care if my comments are taken seriously or not. because as I said, it doesnt matter in the end.
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Send me one!
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Someone else that missed the point of the post. Please read it again and come back when you’re ready to make a relevant argument.
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Boons also only affect things in a 28m radius. Aren't active at the start of the match. Takes 14 seconds to place and another 14 seconds everytime the killer finds it and spends 2 to deactivate it.
If you are going to compare them then compare them fully.
Just think how worthless hexes would be if we had to spend 14 seconds to place them,they only affected a 28m radius around them and the survivor could disable them in 2 seconds.
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No i understood it, it isn't a second objective for killers, and old undying was straight busted for survivors. Not taking a side here, i play both sides, but it is pretty obvious. 14 seconds not including travel time away from the objective to keep placing a totem, compared to a killer who can just play normally and destroy them in 1 second when they come across it is pretty good, they added a secondary objective for survivors finally, like what has been needed since the beginning of the game. As a long time player I am happy to see some new unique stuff that shakes things up.
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Survivors are 4 players. Killer side is just one player in a race against the clock.
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Main point is this:
Devs claim that Undying is busted because cleansing 4 totems is “too much” for survivors to handle, then they introduce Boon Totems which can be relit indefinitely. Doesn’t matter if it takes longer to “bless” or if it takes 2 seconds ti “snuff”, it’s hypocritical balancing.
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Shadow step boon:
Up to 4 can be active at a time (4 survivors.)
Can be reapplied by up to 4 survivors (spammable.)
Can cleanse a hex totem whilst blessing said totem (2 actions at once.)
In addition to removing scratch marks, it counters a bunch of killer perks rendering them mostly wasted slots, including an actual one-time use, supposedly “high risk high reward” hex perk.
This is fine.
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28m of free Lucky Break and Distortion.
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Oh and it also counters NOED, arguably the weakest second-chance perk in the game which already had the most counter play.
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It quite literally does matter lmao in the situation where they would have to be cleansing 4 totems the survivors had to go and find took a MINIMUM of 56 seconds, not to account for time searching for the totems. All while ruin was letting killers keep doing their usual thing. Hexes don't require set up or placement, it requires you just to equip them and they have a map wide strong effect. Boons require the survivor to go find a totem, then spend the time setting it, then heading back to gens, while also alerting the killer that they have been placed, and being very loud and alerting as to where they are placed. Once again, the killer really does nothing and can take them out, which requires survivors to use more time again to set them up. It is literally slowdown for the killer, the tradeoff though is that survivors get a buff for doing bones. I'm not saying they don't need touched up on, they definitely shouldn't be able to stack. But if the totems got destroyed when the killer snuffed them, it would mean that is one less thing the survivor will have on their mind and they will do gens, it is the same mindset with the broken status effect, if they can't heal, what are they gonna do?
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What people don't take into consideration is that killers' time is 4 times worth a single survivor time, for obvious reasons. 2s seems very little compared to 14 it takes to bless a totem, but x4 it's actually 8 seconds, so it's still a very time consuming activity for something that can be relighted for the entire match, especially if you have to drop chases for it.
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Thanks for talking about it. Everybody is talking about Circle of Healing, but imo Shadow Step is way more broken.
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That’s a good point too actually, if just one survivors brings it, they give a bonus perk slot to all 3 of their teammates.
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How do you know that what we saw in the PTB is the final product?
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Also, what the hell is this about the killer finding totems easily? Since when did killers have maps and totem finding perks? Literally all we get is a notification sound letting us know that it's in the relative area, it doesn't tell us exactly where the totem is so we'd still need to search for them, which only adds to our time wasted and that's not including the time it took in the chase to either down or lose the survivor.
As for the "we have the place our totems" argument, bruh...if I could choose where to plant my hex totem as killer I'd take it in a heart beat. If I had a dollar for every time my totems got cleansed within the first 30 seconds of match cus of s****y RNG totem spawns, I'd be a very rich man. The number of times where I've been screwed over either by having my totems spawn either next to survivors at the beginning, next to gens, or on the hill in outdoor maps, looking like a lighthouse is beyond ridiculous. So oh no...woe is me survivors get to choose where to put their totems...oh man, how unfortunate it is to able to reduce one of the worst RNG aspects of the game...🙁
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How do you know it won’t be the final product?
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Just curious, what is the high risk high reward one time use hex? Haunted Grounds? Not that familiar with all the Hex perks
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Well most hex totems are pretty much high risk, high reward since typically their effects are pretty strong, but can be wiped off the map due to something dumb like RNG
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A clock survivors are winding back each time they place a boon.
Outside of stacking the healing speed effect (which bhvr seriously needs to look at, a simple 3 second delay after being hit before you can heal is all it takes) they really aren't that big of an issue.
The fact that the boons have a cost of time alone makes them so much more better designed then all the current meta perks where they get all their powerfull effects for free.
Boons as a concept is one of the most healthy survivor changes we had in forever.
In order to have their powerfell effect they have to give the killer what they vallue most, time.
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Right now boons will not have the effect that hexes can have on the game; they will simply give survivors extra optional objectives that spice up their gameplay. There are issues, such as stacking and range in the case that their radiuses overlap, but this is simply something that can be reiterated on and absolutely should be upon the live release of this midchapter patch.
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What if the only change needed is that newly spawning Hexes override Boons if no Dull totem is available?
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I applaud you for making a reasonable argument here.
And I would give BHVR a little more benefit of the doubt for their hypocrisy in their statements if they simply came out with a good product the first time - not releasing unbalanced trash in the PTB and making the PC community their free playtesters.
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That would be a great start. Unfortunately that isn’t the case right now.
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It would be nice if they had the ptb for a longer amount of time and updated it accordingly with changes. Instead of leaving it up for a week then taking it down with no notice of changes that might happen. They just dump changes in the release day patch notes and call it a day.
Edit: If they make any changes at all.
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Ah, he was speaking generally. My mistake, thought he meant a specific perk.
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This. Nothing too drastic changes from the PTB to the live server. It feels like it’s more of a “how many bugs can we catch before it goes live?” environment rather than “how can we balance this further?”
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Boons are completely different from Hexes. You can't compare the two as if they are the same thing. It's like comparing an apple to an orange.
Boons
- Any totem can be selected to be a Boon
- Boons do not start at the beginning of the match
- Boons can be destroyed in 1 second
- Boons make a loud chiming noise within 28 meters so the Killer can easily find them.
- Boon notify the killer when they are made.
Just because you add "totem" at the end doesn't make them the same thing. Saying there is hypocrisy in balancing makes absolutely no sense.
You realize that Hex: Undying was nerfed because Ruin and Devour Hope existed. Boons don't have Ruin or Devour Hope like effects. Now if the developers made a Boon that made all gens speeds go faster. Or if the developers made a Boon that let you Mori a Killer, then you would have a point.
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I just want to say that Ruin + Undying didn't guarantee survivors had to cleanse it 4 times. This usually seldom happened as it was the worst case scenario. Most of the time you had to cleanse 2 or 3 as Undying could be found first than Ruin.
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- Already an upgrade over hex perks. You can pick a hidden spot rather than something out in the open, easy to see.
- Only takes 15-20 seconds (I think) to bless. Not very long.
- But they can be relit.
- Survivors have Maps and Totem Aura perks to help them find totems super easily.
- Survivors are notified when they’re under the effect of a hex.
In summary, survivors have easier ways to counter hexes than killers do for boons. FACTS.
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Its simple because they want player to buy the new survivor so her perk need to be strong
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