Remove MMR, go back to old rank system
All my matches, as survivor or killer, have been cancer. Hard to tell if its the fact that BHVR, in all their infinite ######### wisdom, decided that they wanted MMR in a CASUAL game (It's casual, stop ######### kidding yourselves BHVR) with no indication of what your actuall Skill level is; Or, if its because everyone is sweating their balls off regardless of their ######### SBMM level so that they can reach Red Ranks for the Bloodpoints because again, BHVR's team decided "Haha won't it be SOOOO fun for everyone to feel like they have to grind and be super sweaty to get to red ranks for the bloodpoint reward, and they have to do it all in a single month meaning even after rank reset people are still going balls-to-the-walls hard because an arbitrary deadline's been imposed before they get reset to ash and people have real lives outside of DBD? Hahhahhha We are GENIUS!" while they plug their ears and ignore the entire community saying they don't want MMR and without ever asking us if we wanted this stupid "Sweat your balls off for the whole month to get back to red ranks from ash for some stupid bloodpoints?"
I can't even have fun in DBD anymore. If I'm not running Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer as killer or DS, DH, BT, and UB as survivor, I get bodied. I can't try fun builds anymore, I can't solo queue, I can't even try new killers because, regardless of a player's SBMM skill (that we CAN'T SEE), people are all trying their hardest to rank up. That means slugging killers, and survivors that bring all the perks that make killers feel powerless as they take BT hits for people who unhooked them, then DS you 59 seconds later, only for you to get flashlight blinded immediately after.
A 2k or a 2 man escape does not feel good BHVR. Stop lying to yourselves and listen to the god damned community for once in your professional careers.
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Hexes are obsolete and based on high MMR game play you speak of you aren't if you run ruin which can easily be removed in mere seconds. The rest I can agree to but aren't required for high tier MMR gameplay. I get by with far less. Also 2 man escapes are gone as of next patch.. how much are you even paying attention to the devs statements?
Once I know I will follow up other than that. I DON'T think your even paying attention to a big majority of info being given to others.
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How about no?
MMR has been nothing but an improvement.
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Unless you only solo queue as survivor, it has most definitely not been an improvement. At least the mixed bag of old ranks was just that: a mixed bag.
2k doesnt feel like a win.
2 escapes dont feel like a win.
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It's an improvement.
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Link to the 2 man escapes thing?
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What the ######### are you on about?
Hexes are not obsolete in high level play. I don't even know how you got that idea- ruin is still by far the best slow down perk, and I don't understand how anyone would say that its somehow obsolete just because someone can break your hexes.
And... 2 man escapes will never not be a thing? Two people making it out through the exit gate at the end of the game is something that I don't ever for see them doing something about?
Do you even play this game? I am flabbergasted you'd even say half the stuff you did.
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yeah bc, I really enjoyed having 4 rank 1 survivors escaping with like one hook while I'm playing a killer I never/hardly played before. So much fun to be had there /s
For reals, tho is MMR a great or perfect system? No its has its problems but I've been enjoying the game a whole lot more with MMR on than off. Almost all the matches I had on every killer I play have been balanced and never felt like I was stomped into the ground. I do wish they could find a better system that would make everyone happy no matter where they are at in skill level but I do think MMR is better than the old ranking system.
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Have you ever played a game with 2 people using small game at high MMR? Have you? Because the irony is I stopped using them, I am not arguing that they aren't the best to slow gens but at high MMR it's obsolete against a group that is running small game on 2 or one using it and the other holding a map. I HAVE seen literally all 5 Totems go down with my SWF with this within 1 minute of the game, I have lost all my hexes to groups like these, with the new boon system you won't ever see hexes again. I am willing to record a few matches and gladly show you the speed in which most random groups let alone SWF can remove them.
Two man escapes with the hatch I have seen full SWF pull this on me with 4 many times the whole game trolling me along the way knowing I had no way to fight back against their coordination. I am not the best player I make no claim to this but I am able to say even before the NEW odd MMR system or whatever it is I am Red 4. Once boons boons come you will understand the point I am making. Because I know 3 red killers whom say use dying light or Phobia instead of ruin as it will begone nearly at the start usually every time.
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i play 80/20 Killer to surv. i love MMR. i've had a much better experience overall with ppl closer to my level. and when i get too high and see those Navy Seals, it's no big deal, my MMR adjusts until i'm back with ppl my own strength.
any surv i kill, i won vs that surv. if they escape, they win. the devs share this mindset and it's how they have built the base of the MMR, with some adjustments for how long one survives and with the exception of hatch which isn't counted for either side.
you need to adjust how you think about the game. there're two ways i think about Killer. one is me versus the team, and one is me versus each surv.
as for Killer vs the team, a 2k is an even split. any less than that, i consider the survs to have won overall. 3+ kills, and i consider i won vs that team overall.
so there's more nuance to how i look at the match. i can get a 3k, beat the team, but one surv still beat me. similarly, i can get 1k, lose vs that team, but at least i know i beat that one guy.
Post edited by nikodemo on3 -
Alright my guy, but the majority of games I either 0k now or 2k at most. That's... not a fun experience. Queueing up for DBD when I know the likelihood of me getting any "wins" (1 kill isn't a win against a survivor... this is an asymmetrical game, 1vA TEAM of 4, there is no 1v1 wins, tf man. You either win against the team or lose against the team or tie against the team. A 1k is a surv win. A 3k is a killer win. A 2k is a tie, imo.) isn't fun, and SBMM doesn't seem to be adjusting correctly if I can consistently join games where I'm going against survivors who absolutely break my ankles every game.
Mind you, I don't think I'm a top-tier killer, but at least with the old Rank system people weren't: 1. Constantly sweating to get back to red ranks for the BP, and 2. Breaking my ankles consistently, in every. Single. Game.
I have not had a game above a 2k since SBMM. The majority of my games, I get 0 kills. Before SBMM was out, it was 50/50 on whether or not I would get a 0K or a 4K. I genuinely had more fun playing DBD when it was a toss-up. Now, I can try my hardest, but if I don't play a strong killer with the best slowdowns I can get, I won't get any kills, period. That's not Skill Based Matchmaking, because clearly I'm not as skilled as the survivors I'm going against, and I wish BHVR would prioritize people's fun over some idealized version of DBD where the game is, somehow, competitive.
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"Ruin is bad because BHVR made a perk that gives you a built-in map."
I was a Red rank 1 killer before SBMM. Rank was kinda meaningless, and that's why I had more fun back then- it was a mixed bag. Nowadays, High SBMM is like old Red Ranks on crack. That being said, no, ruin still gives you a ton of value.
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Yeah if they don't spawn on top of it. Other wise yes.
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I think SBMM system is better than Rank system.
Issue with actual experience is not problem of the SBMM, but overall game instead.
There need to be buffs to weak killers and weak perks, so we get some variety even in high MMR. I would also buff soloQ.
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They should get rid of it until they figure out how to balance their game.
High MMR matches over and over and over again are intolerable. Not to mention the hackers that are at high MMR because they escape all the time, and the 10 minute queues.
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We've always had MMR matchmaking, only our MMR used to be ranks.
The old system was no better, and in many ways, worse. This is just the same system, using an MMR that's more context fitting, and without a hard cap or monthly resets.
There is literally no reason to go backwards. They can continue to work to improve the algorithm by all means though, it could still do with improvement.
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Thing is ranks were more leninent. At rank 1, you could have alright survivors, weak survivors, good survivors and god survivors.
The problem is not the matchmaking itself. The problem is that this game's balancing is arse. Having randomly skilled survivors compensated for how horrid the balance is.
With MMR, you get consistent competent survivors, which means you get put up against the brokenness of this game very single match. There are no more chill matches to offset how bad it can be.
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At rank 5/6 I only ever faced rank 1 survivors because it's a hard cap and oversaturated with rank 1s, who can only be matched downwards.
Now as killer I actually get to play against survivors at my level instead of seal team teabag every other game.
Random matchmaking is basically no matchmaking, and completely invalidates any wins you might accomplish.
You could be paired with opponents far above your level, which means you never stood a chance, which means the matchmaking determined that you lost before you even started playing.
You could be paired with opponents far below your level, which means theu never stood a chance, which means the matchmaking determined that you would win before you even started playing.
None of your victories were earned. The losers on either side felt cheated. There's nothing fun in that.
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MMR might not be too good rn but lets not pretend the old system was any better. Most concern against MMR could easily be applied against the rank based system and sometimes it was worst.
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You don't know? There IS a cap to current SBMM. Data miners found this out. It just increases how specific matching with other players can be.
I wouldn't describe changing back to the other system as "going backwards." That implies that new SBMM is a complete improvement; Which is only true if you value DBD as a competitive game.
That being said, the strength of the old Rank system was that you had a very general cap, so not every game was filled with people sweating their hardest, even at rank 1. It was a mixed bag; and in a casual game like DBD, that's a good thing. Imagine if TF2 removed Casual matchmaking and queued you up for Comp 6s every match instead- I would never touch TF2 again because it's just not a balanced enough game, and going in to every game knowing you have to try your hardest or else you're going to be bodied would make it less fun. That being said, I think TF2 is CLOSER to being balanced enough for comp than DBD is and ever will be, so there in lies the issue.
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Depends on your perspective. If you think DBD is a casual game and should be played solely to have fun, then the old Rank system was better, hands down.
If you think DBD should be a competitive game that makes playing outside of the established meta extremely difficult, then the new match making system is better.
The problem is this: I think if we could poll every DBD player across the globe, most would say DBD is a casual game.
BHVR could have easily solved this issue by having a competitive queue and a separate casual queue, but they hate splitting their player base for some reason even though wide, sweeping changes to an established game rarely ever please most people.
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"hands down"? based on what?
the old system would put brown killers against red rank SWF because they waited too long
The old system would put returning veterans against new players because they didn't keep their rank regularly
The old system was massive stomp fest decided at the lobby screen
So no, Rank based matchmaking was not casual friendly, it created a massive barrier of entry. No matter what perspective you look at the old system was trash. You're right DBD is a casual game, i never claimed DBD is a completive game
no BHVR could not have 2 separate queus because the would not be able to handle it, due to queue time issue and noob stompers going into the casual mode, creating the problem that MMR tried to fix.
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No, you don't know.
1900 is a soft cap. Your MMR can increase above that, but it will match you with players as if your MMR was 1900, until they decide to raise the cap base on how many people are exceeding it.
Otz made a video that explains it really well.
My previous post explains why random/casual/no matchmaking was crap.
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Have you watched tiktok and seen survivors bully killers and you think to yourself “how are they doing this when the killers are supposed to be on their skill level” that’s the thing. They’re not. The reason they’re going against those types of killers is because they spend the whole game bullying the killer going for “clips” and end up dying at 5 gens because they spent 20 minutes doing so. The survivors mmr drops because the devs literally said the way your mmr rises is by escaping. That’s it. Not doing good in chase, doing gens, saving people. Just escaping. The whole mmr system is flawed
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I'd be happy to let players see the old MMR.
The old ranks system was terrible. It was way easy to smurf, and red ranks had such long queue times that BHVR had to disable killer matchmaking protections for almost a year - and as someone trying to learn the game, that was cancer. As a green ranker, I was constantly facing SWF smurf groups who'd roll me, or purple/red rank SWFs game after game after game. I had to play super sweaty, and I hated it.
Now, I get to play the game how I want. And that is to be a bit more chill, try some unusual perks, learn some new killers etc.
MMR is a million times better.
But here's how MMR works:
- If you play sweaty, you'll ideally get sweaty opponents of a similar skill level, until you even out at 2 kills a game. Getting 2 kills is the goal of killer. Consider anything else a win, and a 2k a good game.
- If you play chill, you'll ideally get chill opponents of a similar skill level.
TL/DR: If you want more relaxing matches, chill out a bit. Try some goofy perk combos, make sure to 12 hook etc.
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Dbd is deteriorating rapidly. Pretty soon, one of these hotfix updates will lock the game up altogether.
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i can reply to your whole post with "it was easier with rank based matchmaking" and "nowhere did i say MMR was perfect"
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“It was easier” but it’s still possible both ways right? The fact is, it still exists so the new mmr did nothing. So I’m not sure what the point of your originally comment was for
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So what? they shoudnt bother? MMR at least reduced the issue with derankers, there's no accurate way to know in what MMR batch someone is.
My point was that MMR is better than Rank based matchmaking, yes some issue that where present with rank based matchmaking are still present but it also improve on other aspect.
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I am a legacy holder who has purchased over 7,000 hours of this game at the time of release.
Now, even after MMR, I pride myself on being an almost universal killer.
But if there are many complaints after the MMR patch in the big community
In the not-too-distant future, we believe that the game's lifespan will be shortened due to the matching imbalance in this game. Articles about buying by new users cite matching and disparity as reasons why many people don't buy.
If there is no continuous influx of new users in the match game
How long do you think existing users will exist?
A close example is why a Steam game went down on Friday the 13th.
Think about it. If no new users come in, the game will crash.
MMR believes it should be rolled back to the previous tier system.
this is for sure
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you got 7k hours? cool
you play every killer? cool
You think the game will die soon? might happen but i doubt its because of MMR
the MMR is 2 months old at most.
how long players will keep playing? depends on the individual. There's more and more competition coming out and the game will get stale for some, really doubt MMR will be the deciding factor
Friday the 13th "died" because the game stop getting updated due to a lawsuit, i don't know if that game even had MMR
The previous system was terrible, which a lot of players where criticizing also in the past
no this is not "for sure"
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The devs need to update the SBMM system to not judge kills as the only criteria. Once this was known, the amount of facecamping and hard tunneling I've experienced has gone through the roof to the point where it occurs in around 50% of my survivor matches. We've got an emblem system that, while it has its issues, doesn't explicitly reward facecamping and tunneling.
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It's all completely nonsense anyway. There is no reward for increasing your MMR. There IS a reward for playing under the emblem system. So play according to the emblem system.
This is precisely why it was supposed to stay hidden, and why the dataminers are the ones who have broken the system.
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We should go back to the Bloodpoints system. Way less tunnelers and sweaty survivors
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Well, the part where I get facecamped and tunneled because other people are obsessed with getting kills for MMR doesn't really help me out, unfortunately.
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Exactly. Camping for kills for MMR isn't doing anything for anyone. The players are acting like idiots over this MMR system. The system would be fine if everyone stopped worrying about it.
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I agree with Seraphor and StarLost. The old Rank system mainly seemed to work well for experienced players and streamers. Newer and intermediate players had a rough time.
SBMM isn't Skill Based Match Making, it's Sweat/Success Based Match Making. If you play the game super efficiently, you will be placed against people who play the same way as you.
Basically, you have choice. What is more important to you? "Winning" or "Playing Chill"? You can't have both. I personally choose playing chill. Sometimes I get a 4K/3K and Hatch, and sometimes I get wrekt with maybe 1-2 hooks. Sometimes I juice the killer for 3 gens and escape, and sometimes I get tunneled out at 4-5 gens.
If you want to "win" the majority of your matches to increase a meaningless number, you can't complain about going against sweaty opponents.
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