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My High MMR Realizations+Otzdarva's Message for Devs.
Hi guys,
After playing killer in high MMR(I mean only seeings 4 gamers join my lobby at once, almost all the time, 1.5k hours -6k hours each, avg of 2.5k hours usually as I've tested) I've come to some realizations, as I'm a 50/50 player and sometimes was a survivor main.
- Playing killer became truly unfun, no matter if I ended chases quick(quick for strong survivors as i mentioned moves between 40-60 seconds), by the time I hooked them and went for some gen pressure, I would had lost 2 gens. If the chase was longer than that(which is possible, survivors are good), I would had lost 3 gens.
- Pressuring other players and dropping the first chase if it's too long isn't a good idea in high MMR, all of them can play the game(most of the time) pretty well, considered they all have quite some hours and they can all run you for a bit. THERE IS NO WEAK LINK in higher MMR.
- You must be a master of one Killer. In the previous ranking system, I enjoyed playing many killers and I became pretty good with them, which borught me nice results. Now, In high MMR, if you're not REALLY good with one killer's specific anti loop power, you're gonna struggle. be a master of one if you wanna try and compete in this level.
- Which brings me to the next point, most M1 killers are not viable in HIGH MMR. I consider myself a good M1 killer but when I played pig, even with dashes and all her stuff, I get stumped by good survivors, they know how to counter m1 killers easily in most maps.
- Master a killer who is viable, my blight is good, but since I don't know too well how to hug tech, Z flick and do more techs well, good survivors stomp me because they know how to handle normal good blights. become a master of a viable killer, if you master a deathslinger, you're gonna get stomped cause they will hold W and pre drop strong pallets until you lose, for example.
- Not only that there's no weak links in chase, because they're good survivors, they know how to be efficient on gens and really crush you. I never resorted to tunneling or camping because I find that gameplay boring, but it looks as a neccisity now tbh. ruin undying would get cleansed really fast in high mmr.
I can continue with more points but this post is already long enough, about the second part of the title:
If you've seen Otzdarva's last "Best Build for every Killer" video, you would see that almost all of his builds are the same. Ruin+Pop+Corrupt and something for info with slight varaities. this is a silent message for the devs I believe, that in high MMR you gotta have some stacked slowdown gens/crutch one shot perks like Devour in order to stand a chance.
This is not fun since it renders most perks of the game useless. the other tactic is to tunnel and camp and tbh after playing killer in high MMR, I would never blame killers for doing that again, I truly understand why you're doing that. I won't because it's boring but understandable.
Sorry for the long post, hope you get some intake from it.
Comments
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I'm mean you're not wrong, this is why mmr shouldn't be shared though so you can play other killers.
It's kinda a joke some basic attack killers iv never played (nemesis) is put roughly at the same level as my nurse due to shared mmr.
I'm sorry but nemesis is a joke, zombies dont work. His ability takes 3 hits, hes tall and loud and you'll be lucky to get fast downs against players nurse might struggle with lol
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So what would you suggest? I guess the developers can add bots so you can play against them?
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The solution to the problem is a tough one, since this game balancing is surely intended for old ranking system purple ranks, maybe even a bit of green ranks(when played in true matching skill and not boosted).
The state of the game right now in high ranks is this - play a strong anti loop killer, be a truly master of his power and maybe then you'll might get a win.(if you wanna play fair and hook 3 people in turns, if not just tunnel straight away).
I would suggest for all players here, instead of the devs(cause they don't care) to take my advice and if they're in a medium/low mmr right now, start practicing on 1 viable killer that is considered strong and is fun for them to play, so when they'll reach high MMR they'll might have a chance to win some games.
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SBMM for high mmr players just isn't fun at all (or balanced for that matter). Not to mention how they gutted the whole "separate per killer thing". If your main is at max mmr you could jump on a brand new killer never played before and still be matched just barely below mmr cap level.
The games imbalances at the high level used to be covered up by bad matchmaking but now that isn't the case.
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I think MMR just masks some old issues in this game. Meaning, yes MMR adds a bit sweat, but the bigger issues,
which make killer lose are:
- Huge Map size for non-mobile killers
- Indoor maps with a pile of pallets. Like seriously, why there are 25 pallets on The Game?
- If you chase a Hold-W-Pre-drop-the-pallet survivor -- they will win. Almost guaranteed.
- SWFs on comms
- Difficult Maps, like RPD, Haddonfield, Farm (where you can hide in the corn), Midwitch
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Your solution is meh. It's easier to quit playing killer as some people do and enjoy survivor role. Survivor no matter how good or bad u are is a chill role. U can chill whole game and still escape. Killer is punished very hard once he makes mistakes.
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Just go back to the luck of the draw and everybody will be happy. Let the newer players get stomped and as they get better they become the ones that stomp, that's what made people grind and want to get better at this game you want to admit it or not.
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Ineed, now i consider 2 options for me since i don't enjoy playing killer anymore:
- making a new account.
- Playing and trying to master blight with all of his techs until im good enough to compete, playing with more info perks and less gen regression perks so i can focus more on chasing and becoming a god blight from a good blight.
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Since each killer has a different power levels, you can play any killer and hit a ceiling with that killer. The good thing about MMR is if you have a weaker killer, then you will always go against survivors at that skill level. I think MMR actually fixes a lot of problems with their system. I play Trapper a lot and he's considered a weak killer. With MMR, I will always be placed against survivors that will challenge me but won't totally decimate me every game.
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You're correct. Scorpionz, maybe the best pig player suggested to make more pallets in the map but make most of them unsafe pallets that killers can mindgame and give them a chance, instead of being a pallet breaking simulator. if the best pig player has issues in high MMR than why we would not with an m1 killer?
You're right, quitting killer is actually the best solution that will wake the devs up, i also enjoy the survivor role unless the killer tunnels(which happens all the time now, and is understandable, most of the times). BUT, it's not a realistic approach and I'm sure most of the users here will continue play killer, in that case my advice for them is to master one strong killer instead of being ok with many of them.
Indeed, the feeling of randomness was fun, I liked having chill games and also have sweaty games to challange myself and focus. now every game is just a copy paste of the previous one, survivors don't go for flashlight saves anymore unless it's a good chance, they all stick to gens and leave.
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Maybe that's your exp. but when I tried new killers or killers that my MMR should be more lower(for example, legion) I would still get basically the same kind of players and same kind of copy paste game, some people like you claim that the MMR is working for their lowest mmr killers, some of them, like me, having a different experience of still having tough matches with their "supposed to be" weaker killers.
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What do you mean when you say you are having "tough" matches. How many average kills / escapes are you getting?
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Avg of 1 kill(because i play kinda nice, not hook spreading the whole team but also not tunneling 1/2 people and ignore the other 2). 2 if im lucky, and maybe win one game in like 10 matches if it's not a swf(most of my games are against 3-4 mans, i ask in every endgame lobby). many games all of them escape too but it's because I don't really care to secure 1K if the game wasn't good for me.
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How about don't run the best build then and let your MMR get lower?
Not sure what's the point of these best build recommendations now that we have MMR. Best build will result in that you will also get better survivors, so there is no real benefit. Maybe it is even bad to run best builds if you don't enjoy going against high MMR survivors.
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You have a point, but most people don't see it that way, we like competition and if we join a game, we want to try to win.
Which is kinds dumb in DBD, since you don't have indicator of you "winning" and also nothing to show off, you can't know and show your rank to other people which is dumb.
So you want to win, cause of you human nature but there's nothing to gain from this winning other than a dopamine rush.
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Against good survivors you have to tunnel, otherwise there is little pressure. They can just sit on gens, one guy is enough for the unhook, nobody has to go for protection hits, can calmly heal up, etc.
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I know that, but that's not how I enjoy the game, I enjoy the chases and letting other players challange me.
If i'll start tunneling, I'll get better results but in both cases I won't enjoy the game. so it's either stop playing killer or become a god blight, or just lose so much that i'll play in a less sweatfest of games.
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Yes, but if you suck at that killer, your mmr will go lower. I find it to be better than, choose a fresh killer and play against <10hr survivors like it was during MMR testing.
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SBMM on a still unbalanced game was a mistake. Sure you can still hold your own on high MMR but for that to happen you have to resort to unfun and unskillful tactics like proxy camping and tunneling. Not even mentioning that for survivors it's way more efficient to literally just run forward and keep pushing gens than it is interacting with the killer. I can keep an average of 2k or even 3/4ks just straight up camping and tunneling everyone and using NOED, but where's the fun and skill on that?
Scrap the system, balance the game around the fun and skillful aspects (chases, killer-survivor interaction) and then add it again, because right now it feels you're punished for getting better on the game.
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Well, idk how to tell you but even after being stomped over and over again for many days, my MMR stays the same, I still get the same players.
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Thats the irony. Those that don't want sweaty games will do their best to get them.
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Indeed. I refuse playing scummy because i find it boring as you said, but i keep getting stomped cause even trying to hook spread in high MMR against a SWF is like shooting in your leg.
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My no kill Trapper says otherwise. I will get brand new players if I don't go on a killing spree every now or then.
Remember, killer mmr is based on kills. If you get one or two kills your mmr isn't going down.
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What I don't understand is BHVR actually give you the ability to play at any skill level you want to play at. If you want to play for fun, then you can play for fun and SBMMR will balance the game around you?
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So I assume I'm bugged.
My friends are already laughing at me for losing so much and still getting full pc swfs with 2k hours for each survivor every game.
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I don't think it has to be that black or white, IE <10hr survivors or peak 1900mmr. How about just simply 50% of your mains highest mmr as the default start rather than what it currently is which is like 90% of your highest.
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He's asking for it to be fun.
Jesus Christ, you just jump to conclusions don't you?
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I don't know where you've seen that but it doesn't. I can play with meme builds the entire week and get stomped and still get matched with high MMR survivors that continue to stomp me. That's what actually happens with my Huntress, my main killer on which I run no slowdown perks. If you watch streamers that run non-meta builds they also rarely have balanced matches.
MMR doesn't notice if you're playing "for fun" or not. If you're just decent with a killer/survivor you just keep getting paired with decent/good players, but these players are now trying to win at any cost.
The only way to "balance the game around you" is to throw games on purpose, but if that's the case the system is a failure.
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The default for new accounts is 1100. I would agree thats too high but its still where new players end up. Having an average of all your killers mmr I think is fair. Very few killers could be viewed as outside normal M1 play.
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That's also true, it's like admitting defeat. that in high MMR it's just not worth it to play killer. so as you reach a level where you play only against swfs and good survivors, start playing for the memes so you can drop down again.
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I wish chase time was used for survivors. Unfortunately those that pound gens and escape are rewarded over those that can run.
You are right though. If the system worked perfectly, you would feel like every game is sweaty. Because games not "sweaty" involve one side being bad (or memeing).
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And imagine that also these gen jockies are actually good at running as well, what are you gonna do then? by the time you spread your hooks between 2-3 players the game is over unless you're such an amazing anti loop killer that you end chases against survivors who can run quickly.
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If you don't believe me, that was my last match of yesterday after I lost 4 games in a row with Huntress. I actually decided to put a slowdown perk on this just so I could have a match lasting longer than 7 minutes.
How is this "balanced around me" in any way? I'm running frickin Shadowborn and brown addons against meta #########. My chases were all around 30~40 seconds (a good time), but it doesn't matter because I didn't camp or tunnel anyone, so gens were finished in 5 minutes anyway. I literally lost the match on the lobby screen.
You know the better? I'm 100% sure when I load into the game today I'll keep facing these teams.
Again, SBMM is useless on an unbalanced game.
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Thats the inbalance of dbd thats gone ignored for years. Now its front and center because of sbmm.
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Wait, how did they gut the 'separate per killer' thing?
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Under the old rank system when I hit the reds I usually got destroyed and wound up back where I belonged pretty quick, not always but mostly games felt best sitting in the green to purple range. I'm not that great but typically I could get 1 kill and often that wasn't enough to avoid a derank in the reds, which I'm fine with.
Under the new system I had to eat roughly 30 total losses, no kills, sometimes 1 hook max before I started getting games that I felt weren't completely unbalanced.
I think the MMR is over rewarding kills and not de-ranking efficiently, resulting in easily boosted killers who take forever to get out of their MMR if they even try and go for one kill. Something feels off about that.
But who knows as we have no information on how the MMR works so everyone is just guessing.
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Just my last comment on this. I actually get way easier survivors with my Nurse, like the type of ones who camp pallets against her and greed gens against a killer that teleports. Probably because my games with her are usually short and it doesn't raise my MMR. What a proper functioning system :)
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I don't think killer MMR is based entirely on kills. I am aware of a player who 4Ks every match by slugging/bleeding out players at 5 gens and their MMR stays the same, they just keep getting obviously low MMR players over and over. The system is probably based more on the emblem system requirements than just kills.
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Region and time of day also factor in matchmaking. If no one at your level is playing you will get lower mmr players.
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I started practicing huntress recently and it's kinda settled now where after running no slowdowns and sticking to a specific playstyle (pretty much M2 only, no camping or tunnelling, only slugging if they offer it up on a plate, mostly ignoring gens) the calibre of survivors stays pretty much the same + it's usually a 2k. It's nice, I wouldn't have thought she would ever be the killer I play to chill out but here we are.
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There's no way to Master a killer when basic MMR is too high and winnin g1 single match can catapult your MMR and make you lose the next game. At least "Ranked" Matchmaking would give you a window to play the killer comfortably before having a strong commitment to the killer.
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If you play "just for fun" with your Huntress, how long before you get lowered in MMR to a point where you are getting 2 kills / 2 escapes on average?
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No cause at low MMR killers are OP 😂
The never ending story, game must have different balance with each skill level
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I find one big problem is 2K 2E average, which is Survivors win half of the time, but for Killer its about "tie". Make Killers feel never satisfied on the game.
Anyway, I made this chart last week
Let say you're player A, a casual, at level 2, win often and gain to level 3.
- You either face player C, also a casual, whos better than you but happened to lose at level 4 and vs you at level 3. He beat you fair and square with his skill. You lose, but you have fun.
- Or you face player B, who has equal skill to you but is a try hard and do whatever it takes to win. He still beat you, but either with DS,DH,BT,Deliverance or tunnel,camp, 3 slow down into Noed. This is where the complains begin.
If you nerf the other side. You will face player D, whos even better than player C and a try hard, but since their side is nerfed, he lose more and drops his SBMM. Im sure to you that you will never have fun game ever again. Who wants to vs a more skilled + try hard opponents?
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You're just mad you can't smurf weaker players.
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Idk, I've been playing everyday since MMR launched and still don't get this.
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That’s not actually true. If you’re at Max MMR with (let’s say for example) Spirit which is 1900, your worst killer who you never play or practice with will be around 1700 MMR instead of the starting 1100.
The Devs claim that skills and game knowledge is shared amongst killers. Well duh, if all you do is chase as an M1 killer then it’s the same principle. But if you want to learn a power you’re SOL, you have to face against experienced survivor.
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The only reason bi ever wanted a new matchmaking system was to get different scores for each killer, so I could play on that killer's level. That was their promise. They lied.
I feel so stupid for buying Nemesis. I honestly want a refund.
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Another issue with running a strong build is that your strong build will be a bigger contributor to your success instead of your base killer skill. This will make the game harder in cases when your build is not there to help you (destroyed totems, bad map, chases against good skilled survivors, etc).
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You probably have to facecamp a lot to get back to normal games? It should not have to be that way that the game gets unfun if you are good at it. They need to balance somehow for higher ranks where killers needs a lot of advantages they don't need in lower MMR. Perhaps 5 perks, six gens or something. Or this game will lose the best killer players very soon.
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