Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Get all the details on our forums: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436478/sign-up-now-to-receive-a-recap-of-your-2024-dead-by-daylight-stats/p1?new=1
Killer Nerfs Need To Stop - The Item Experiment
So currently the "Otter" streamer ( really confused on the rules on talking about streamers so I'm not using his name) is doing an experiment to test if survivor items and add-ons are too strong. This is what I've seen so far.
The group is able to easily accomplish 3 and 4 man escapes with little effort.
They're able to finish all 5 gens in under 4 minutes.
It was so easy they decided to try no perks AND no items. The end results didn't change.
With no items and no perks they faced a Spirit with green add-ons. Even with a terrible first chase that gave her an easy down, gens went so fast she decided to camp her 1 hook in basement. When they could have easily 3 man escaped they tried for a rescue and wound up giving her a 2k.
Eventually a skilled nurse on Badham accomplished a 3k after all 5 gens were completed. Mr. Otter forgot to bring an item for that match and disqualified the results because he was confident if he had remembered his med-kit they would have had another 3 man escape.
They're currently facing a Blight with 2,000 hours in the game. 5 gens finished in about 5 minutes. The Blight has only been able to injure 2 survivors during this time. No hooks. Easy 4 man escape.
This was all done at high MMR so they're facing killers that are among the best and they're still getting completely stomped. If this doesn't prove beyond a doubt that the game is terribly imbalanced in favor of survivors then nothing ever will.
Before a single additional killer nerf is even thought about, survivors, they're perks, their items, their offerings, and maps all need to be dealt with. It's so sad to see how uninteresting the game play is. The killera literally have no chance to "win" even when the definition of when is reduced down to either a 2k or by number of hooks with no kills. Please devs, do something to fix this and make the game fun again.
Comments
-
I think talking about the names of streamers is okay as long as it's not negative (towards them I mean) or naming/shaming? I mean he's a fog whisperer afterall so it should be okay to mention him in the context of a post like this
1 -
Sounds familiar....
🤔
Like this exact same thing was tried once before.....
5 -
And while u are trying to use his experiment in your favor u miss part where he suggests killer addon nerfs. And until experiment ends please don't abuse it's results. Ty for understanding.
3 -
There is a difference between a killer nerf, and a killer fix. Spirit and deathslinger both had justified nerfs. Other than that killers got mountains of buffs. Hell, not a lot of survivor things actually need nerfed, killer needs buffed in the base kit. We are only just now getting a gen perk as a base perk, surge turning into Jolt. Killer has nothing base kit to help with gen regression. The killer's objective is to stop the gens and they don't have anything to help stop that besides a kick that can be undone in a millisecond tap, and regression speed that is slow enough for me to go bake muffins before the gen is even at half.
If they made it where kicking a gen did a certain amount of percentage per kick, and also the regression was the same as t3 ruin, killer would actually be in an amazing spot. It wouldn't make the regression perks much stronger, but would make playing without them incredibly more helpful. I do agree with Otz and his changes for toolboxes and medkits, I love that toolbox idea, really creative work and it would add some fun without being insanely oppressive.
3 -
I don't understand, how people don't see it's nearly impossible to have a 50% balance in 4 vs. 1 asymmetrical game. Just by it's core nature something of that scale can't be balanced in a video game. It's just a number game usually the team with more people wins the majority of the time in video games. I don't know many games were the team with less players wins. Usually the team with more players have the upper hand just due to the number game.
0 -
I didn't "miss" the killer add-on part. It just isn't relevant to what he is showing today. The game is laughably easy for survivors even without any perks or items. And with them it basically stops being a game and becomes a "Hold M1" simulator.
So my original thought stands. Nothing for killers needs to be nerfed or changed until survivors are balanced.
2 -
I don't think it's just about winning or losing. It's about how easily one side can win. How easily they can render their opponents to nothing more than a slight annoyance. They're showing S and A tier killers with META perks and add-ons being played by players with thousands of hours in the game putting in maximum effort to get a couple of hooks or if they're very lucky ONE whole kill.
As a killer, I'd find the game way more fun even with a 60% loss rate as long as those losses weren't complete shutouts. I mean good chase, lots of downs, lots of hooks, the game could be won by either side at any moment. I feel the same about survivor too. It just isn't fun when I barely have any interaction with the killer before the gens are finished and I did have a chance to get any unhooks, heals, bodyblocks, etc.
6 -
The thing is the devs clearly don't care how the game is played. Hence why MMR is based on kills/escapes.
Killers get rewarded for camping and focusing on getting 1 survivor at a time, because there's no benefit for a killer to try to play a 1v4 when the system is basically checking to see how many 1v1s you win.
Survivors get rewarded for escaping regardless of how well they played. There's no reason for you to interact with the killer as being the first caught is bound to get your camped or tunneled to death now.
0 -
Isn't Otter that group of professional SWF players?
0 -
This is true. Prior to MMR I rarely got camped and probably got left on hook to die maybe 10 times. But since it's been released I've noticed a major uptick in camping as well as survivors doing nothing but gens and leaving, even when the killer isn't camping. Nothing matters anymore except kills and escapes. At least the old emblem system attempted, albeit poorly, to evaluate your overall gameplay.
0 -
No. I mean maybe there is a group named that. I'm talking about a popular streamer and fog whisperer that has otters as his mascot and emotes.
0 -
Clearly what will fix these issues is nerfing Wraith's base lunge.
Please buy more Auric Cells!
3 -
Another Pig nerf should boost auric cells sales to new highs.
3 -
Cant wait for Blight to get nerfed
2 -
won't be long I feel like.
1 -
This has been proved dozens of times already, since 2017 I believe. Mr. Streamer isn't doing anything new. The devs recently said they don't want to touch core game mechanics like gen speed, early game and Realm Beyond proves their interest lies rather in graphics than in balance. They don't care about players who actually invest time into this game and would rather catter to the bad players.
5 -
I have to disagree with your last statement. No perks and items only, and sometimes no perks or items. That's hardly sweaty. I really don't see them playing in any spectacular way. The only thing they're doing is prioritizing escapes over saves, which is what MMR counts so it's become the new playstyle.
0 -
That's how people are starting to play now, since it came out that MMR only counts escapes. I still don't think it's correct to saying they're a comp sweat squad when they are significantly weaker than a comp squad because they aren't using perks and sometimes not even items. They don't have nearly the organization either. They don't have the maps broken down to zones, they aren't really bodyblocking, there's a lot they don't call out. They're just doing gens and only going for rescues when they're safe. It's kind of average really.
0 -
Thanks for keeping an open mind!
0 -
To top it off you also can choose the best killer player literally any, literally ANY streamer and no matter how good they are, as the role that does not have to co-ordinate with anyone, wins based on muscle memory and game knowledge that can always be used to a great if not near fullest extent, probably couldn't keep a consistent win-streak if paired up against solo survivors of the same skill level.
Gen pressure's literally a myth with gen tapping, you need gen regression which only limits build variety and makes killer boring and strenuous. Even survivor's of mediocre level can run pallet to pallet to pallet and insta-drop every single one leaving near no mindgame for most of the killer roster (which is only further endorsed by the dev's with upcoming window's of opportunity buff.) while it takes no co-ordination for survivors to know to hold M1.
The fact that survivor's could pretty much always decide if they really want to win or not is a problem, 4 streamers doing that without perks is proof, going into a killer match without perks at that high of an MMR is a joke. If there's a 4 man SwF and they want to sweat and they're competent they will always win, and that's not bad, really, survivor's should get rewarded if they have the skill. But killer's are not shown that same curtesy, the dev's always talk about a "cautious approach to perks, blah blah blah" but again, that curtesy is only shown to balance in the survivor's favor, how far they pushed some of the buffs for survivor's last PTB. Not saying killer's didn't get some buffs this mid chapter, but it was undoubtedly not to the scale of which was shown for survivors.
The games is totally pushed in the balance of survivor's if everything other than the base game balance was set on a 1 - 1 scale.
A great killer could never use their skill to consistently win against survivors using perks of same strength, items of same strength to killer's add-ons, and being evenly matched in skill. And BHVR would never want that.
2 -
but is it not a problem how if a member of this "comp sweat squad" (who are mainly killer mains), could play a great killer, great perks, great add-ons, no need for co-ordinating with others, all just in the hands of this one extremely skilled player, as the power role no less ,':) , and still have almost no possibility to beat a full team of equally skilled albeit, solo queue, 2-3 meta perks each, could force drop pallets, and the whole time win with little effort just because the only thing faster than the chases were gens.
0 -
I would love to hear how you think a nerf to a mid tier at best killer is justified in which he received no buffs to compensate
0 -
It's not necessarily fair or balanced for a killer to level a 4 man sweat team. Killers are already mopping the floor of most matches where survivors are all dead with several gens still remaining. As solo, it is rare to see a team escape - killers are that OP already.
When survivors are nerfed hard constantly, there comes it that killers have to eventually be nerfed.
Now an alternate way of escaping has been completely removed: Keys. Another hard survivor nerf on top of an already mountain of nerfs! So killers need a lot more nerfs right now so completing all 5 gens should always be a possibility.
4 -
*playing 4-man swf on comms
"BHVR look! medkits are op!"
0 -
Ummm its 4 man swf on comms? Plus experienced players.... You do know this doesn't prove anything except that swf is strong and solo queue is hell
0 -
I really hope the devs dont pay to much attention to Otz and his incredibly biased testing
1 -
Spirit never needed a nerf at all tho
1
