The nerf to the deathslinger was the last nail in the coffin to play killer for me.
Because, what is the purpose of playing and buying new killers, if I am going to live in constant fear of them being nerfed out of nowhere? The game was already unfair enough for killers and now i also have to worry that my main (which i bought with real money) will be nerfed because survivors finding it unfair, im done with this game.
Bhvr basically stole money from us.
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What you say is true but the nerf is because survivor dont like playing against him.
Never forget that its the survivor who dictate who get buff and nerf and you should be fine for the next killer you buy
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Sucks to be you I guess.
Everything in this game can be changed. Regardless if you paid money for it or not. They can completely change the game and it still does not matter if you or anyone else paid money for it.
And you actually agreed to that with the EULA.
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What you’ve said is completely true, unfortunately.
A fun killer is released - survivors cry “op” “no counterplay” - killer gets nerfed to rot in D Tier - nothing you can do about it
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I mean, aside from the most biased people, everyone should agree that Deathslinger needed some changes. If those were the right changes is a different thing, but he needed something.
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The problem wasn’t his quickscope, it was that he could quickscope and still have the option of letting go and using basic attack (for example, if a survivor didn’t take a window/vault).
What’s funny is that BHVR did it right with Pyramid Head - they added an action delay if he let go of M2, so he couldn’t just guarantee hits.
It’s baffling that they didn’t learn from this and simply apply it to Deathslinger.
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Τhank you. One less annoying killer.
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I agree the nerf to deathslinger was unnecessary but things change in this game and we have to deal with it. I think you should still play him and you might change your mind.
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“Bhvr basically stole money from us”
Lol they didn’t, it’s their game they can do whatever they want with it. If they wanted they could remove half the killer roster and there’s nothing we can do about it. You agreed to that when you first started playing. PvP games need balance changes to stay healthy, why do you think csgo is still so popular?
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how much you wanna bet this guy never plays slinger
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i don't, so what? I was talking in general, whats the purpose of buying a new killer for their specific power if eventually the power will get nerfed or changed?
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Guess live support games arent for you because balance changes are made all the time in them
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No... He really didn't, unless by changes you mean potential buffs for a mid at best killer.
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I never played killer because it was so stressful but I gradually learned over time to love playing killer. I mean, yeah, it is stressful. But I try to find new ways to have fun:
- Crazy trickshots on Trickster, Deathslinger, and Huntress.
- Cool use of bottles by Clown during chases.
- Awesome hook shots as Pinhead that down loopers fast.
- Cool perk synergies that make the killer feel fresh.
These are just some things. A lot of times I get 3 or 4 kills, but a lot of times I still get 1 or 2 kills. Sometimes only 3 or 4 hooks. I've trained myself not to get upset when I have a bad game because this game is incredibly unbalanced. The balance is shifted between player skill (which the devs are trying to balance out with the SBMM), perk and item loadouts from survivors, map selection (some maps are straight up miserable for some killers, and we don't even need to consider RCPD for that because it's terrible for everyone), and most survivors just want to troll the killers because that's fun for them (tea bagging, flash light clicking, whatever).
Your health is too important to be worried about being top-tier super high MMR 4K kill streak killer. Just find ways to have fun other than racking up those kills. Because if the only enjoyment you get out of the game is getting kills....then yeah, maybe find another game to play.
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Seriously? Was that the best thing you could think of? dude i been playing LSG all my life, the difference is that a lot of those games doesnt have the balance problem like dbd. lets put for example COD.
if in COD one weapon is better than any other and they nerf it, the nerf applies to ALL PLAYERS, the same is with halo, counter strike, battlefield, etc. what is the difference with dbd? that here the nerf applies for a single side (killers) and for a specific character of that side, while the other side (survivors) only receives buffs.
But yeah, keep defending behaviuor...
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Those changes being buffs, yes.
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lmao. They have the right to change everything and anything. Also he was annoying af to try and counterplay which made him unfair ontop of the tiny terror radius
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The tiny terror radius was all that needed changing. His shots are very easy to dodge.
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The only time M&A Deathslinger matters are in case where he has no LoS since he's tall and you can easily spot him coming when he's out in the opening. I wouldn't say it's a needed change considering Deathslinger has limited range as it is.
If annoying is a valid reason to nerf anything in this game, then it means things like Head On, Flashlights, Blast Mine, Flashbang, etc should all be nerfed because they are "annoying". Nerfing things for being annoying is a bad way to balance the game.
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Tbf, Pyramid head can still guarantee hits. The change virtually did nothing.
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Yeah it is, because Im putting in just as much effort as you are.
This game doesnt have that much of a balance problem either, at least for the average casual player
What problem does it have? a whiney community who cant handle losing.
Also save me the hassle of saying survivors only receiving buffs and killers nerfs. The slinger nerf is in the same patch as the trapper and plague buff as well as a hatch and key nerf.
Also look back 4 or 5 years ago and tell me survivors were weaker back then. When they had ######### like infinites, 30+ pallets being the norm for every map, ACTUAL bs perks, vaccum pallets and the list goes on.
BHVR ######### up a lot, but the state of the game is the best its ever been balance wise and thats a fact.
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Not exactly, killers also recieve buffs if they are absolutely horrendous to play. It might take some time, but it's generally faster than killers that are horrendous to play against. The only killer that recieved changes fast was Twins, and that was purely because she was even better at camping than Bubba, and faster at mass slugging than Nurse.
Spirit has been super boring to play against for the past 2 years, didnt really recieve any changes to make her more fun to face untill now.
Deathslinger has been super boring to play against, didnt recieve any changes for that for 1,5 years.
But when a killer is kinda boring to play? Lets change them 5 times over the course of 4 months untill the killer is more fun to play.
Killers need to be fun to play against too, frustrating, sure, but fun. If a killer is boring, no one wants to play. This is not a tournament where it doesnt matter whether a build is boring or not, as long as it's effective. These are public games, fun matters. If a base killer is boring, there is a problem.
And dont you even dare think of saying "bUt FuN fOr SuRvIvOrS mEaNs BeInG aBlE tO lOoP tHe KiLlEr FoR 5 GeNs", because that is simply false. You could finish 5 gens against Deathslinger before he even got someone in second stage, let alone a second survivor on the hook. Being able to finish gens against Slinger wasnt the issue, his 1v1 was simply extremely boring. Nothing you did as a survivor mattered. Against a Huntress 14 meters away? You can dodge that #########. Against a Deathslinger 14 meters away? Welp, better hope he missed, because there is no way you can dodge that projectile unless you have Dead Hard.
He's more fun to face against now, he's slightly worse than he was, sure, but that's just Devs being too scared to make too many changes at once because it could lead to a hidden power creep. If they didnt make his 1v4 better, they will do so within 3 months after the chapters release.
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If you vault, yes. But he can’t immediately m1 like before if he lets go of m2.
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Just make him 115 and it'll probably even out.
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He didn't need changes. He needed add-on buffs actually. He can't do anything against a decent team.
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His nerf could lead me to stop playing too. It's 1 less killer that I can play and have fun with while also feeling kind of strong. Now, he's gonna be way worse, basically unplayable. Do that to a few more killers and I'm out.
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Paying money for a character doesn't exempt them from being nerfed. M&A Slinger was frustrating to play against because his terror radius was so tiny, and quickscoping created a lose-lose scenario for survivors where nothing they do will matter.
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I have no idea what you're arguing. The devs made no mention that DS was overperforming, and neither did the community. Far from it. He's literally nerfed to oblivion because survivor's feelings and the devs couldn't be asked to rework him, so they're heaving him straight into the dumpster because the killer's fun be damned.
Also, Trapper, Clown, Freddy, Legion, Wraith, Pig, and debatably Myers are fairly notable counterpoints. Oh yeah, and there's the infamous Billy change where he was in a good spot, but got nerfed into oblivion and the devs still haven't learned their lesson.
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So? He was ridiculous to play against. The game is supposed to be enjoyable for both sides. And you're wrong, the dev's being too careful isnt the devs not reworking him. Because they are. If you played him on the PTB, he performs quite similar in 99.9% of the cases. He needs minor to slight other changes, sure, but that will come with time.
Billy did need a punishment on infinite revving though. It's literally the same reason why Deathslinger needed changing: free zoning without punishment. I'd even say that crack billy would be fine if just overheat was introduced. You'll notice a trend amongst the devs soon enough tho. At first they are too afraid of buffing survivor perks even though they are horrible, then they are too afraid of buffing certain mechanics because they have massive potential if snowballed, but the snowball is so hard to obtain in the game that the massive potential barely matters. Then they make a really good change and suddenly buff killers galore and buff survivors galore, make 1 buff or nerf too powerful and then they are careful with every move they make for another 8-10 months.
So really, devs do work on both sides, but for killers to reach an average of 2 kills and survivors an average of 2 escapes, either survivor needs buffing, or killer needs nerfing. But buffing or nerfing survivors really affects the lowest and highest tiers. And buffing and nerfing killers does the same.
So ofcourse the devs will look at the largest set of players, and balance towards their enjoyment. Because this game is a party game, first and foremost. If you make the game tournament balanced, killers would have an average of 3.5 kills in publics. And at that point, why even bother having generators in the game?
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And that justifies severely nerfing the things that made him more appealing to play as than Huntress? Answer is no.
I'm not saying that Deathslinger didn't need changes... but the thing is the counterplay to DS's chase should have come from the reeling mechanic. If you go that way, then the chase becomes more interactive for both people because the terrain suddenly matters a lot more than it does currently. Instead... from what I've heard, they've made Slinger feel significantly worse to play, significantly weaker to Survivors holding W, and barely gives the Survivor any additional options once Slinger does finally get into range.
Seriously, the nerf they went with seems like the worst possible option and the changes seem like an overall nerf which shouldn't be what an average Killer should be getting.
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Jesus christ, adapt. I hate this nerf with every piece of my soul too and will be really mad if it goes live as it currently is, but I know I have to adapt to these changes. I know I will either have to change the way I play slinger or switch to a different main. Just adapt in the same way everyone has had to adapt when their character or their favorite perk gets nerfed, this game does not revolve around you.
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"So ofcourse the devs will look at the largest set of players, and balance towards their enjoyment. Because this game is a party game, first and foremost."
So why do you care about balance of killers and whether they win or lose if it is party game? I mean if survivor say its party game, than they shouldn't care if they win or lose.
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Enjoy your queue times
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Slinger's nerf is a perfect example of the design philosophy of dead by daylight.
Anything a killer can do outside of m1 must have an arbitrary delay so the survivor can react.
Survivors should have been given more mobility on chain against a backing up death slinger, since breaking the chain was meant to be the counterplay. Backing up turns it into a formality.
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They can change the characters in any way they like. They could make every killer have nurse's base speed if they were inclined to. Not that that would be a good change, but it's their prerogative.
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And lightning can strike from a clear sky but that also doesn't affect this discussion.
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yeah, he needed a buff, NOT A COFFIN!
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The OP compared slinger's nerf to stealing, it wasn't a good comparison.
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I dunno bout yall but.
I'ma make slinger more annoying to face now with a new build due to the terror radius buff >=3
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The only change I thought was weird was his TR change. It is what made him menacing in a way. The problem I find with Deathslinger is that you have have to hold W and rush gens against him. Because in a 1v1 the survivor can't really react to his power.
That has nothing to do with survivors "crying", more like a huge oversight by the design team. They are at fault here, and will continue to be if they don't start to understand how map is a huge component to killer's powers and how they work in-game.
Also,
"BHVR stole money from us" I'm sorry, but what? I don't care how much anyone agrees or disagrees, that line is cringe especially when you know that they can change ANYTHING within the game, regardless of how anyone feels. They own the rights to do that.
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Once again, what are you arguing? You made this massive reply to Botrax and haven't even refuted what he said, but reaffirmed it (particularly here). You are just saying you think that the devs behaving this way is good, but it's not.
DS is not ridiculous to play against. You have the tools to win. You simply find him annoying, that is all. The devs responded by attaching a net negative to a kit that was simply decent at best from an objective standpoint because survivors didn't like DS. That shouldn't happen. And no, they're not simply being cautious. The stealth and the anti-loop's strength is what people found annoying with DS (basically DS himself). The Stealth was gutted despite that, contrary to what the forum's believe, was a core part of his design (to the point add-ons are centered around it), and his anti-loop, while still good, is weaker. There's no bad direction to go that warrants caution. If he's getting curbed this hard, his power clearly needs to be giving him other benefits because his ability to win matches wasn't the problem, making net negatives unacceptable by concept alone.
Nope. Billy did not need those changes. Calling what Hillbilly does free zoning also shows you don't understand his mechanics are and what free zoning is. He has a built-in penalty for missing his chainsaw, so he can't intentionally whiff just to seal off a window or pallet unless he had cool-down add-ons (which is the add-ons, not the base kit). He also has a charge bar, which forces you to either A. Keep it low, making what you do nothing but an empty threat B. Keep it high, risking having to go through a lengthy canceling process where survivors are faster than you. By bringing up free zoning, are you just copying what Scott Jund says about Slinger and Demo and applying it to Billy while not understanding what he was actually saying? Billy didn't have free zoning, just zoning since his kit already has a cost associated to it. The overheat mechanic is just a double penalty, which is stupid.
Please tell me you're trolling. You can't unironically be saying that survivors have weak perk strength relative to killers. A lot of survivors have good utility perks that are only overshadowed by blatantly overpowered ones. Killers, on the other hand, are loaded with legitimately useless perks or perks so niche, that they are only ok on 1 or 2 killers. Some of the perks actually have nice effects, but are on far to long of a cooldown. This is why the last 3 chapters were actually great for killer gameplay, because we're now getting perks that don't just collect dust.
You also revealed you haven't seen the average kill rates. They already are close to 50% (buff Nurse). The reason for high kill rates was bad survivors. It was a matchmaking issue. Also, guess who's in the bottom half of kill rates? DS, who's getting a net nerf.
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Yes the problem is all killers that is fun to play, or halv decent gets nerfed sooner or later. Now Plague gets a nice buff, many will start playing her and later nerfs will come.
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the nerf isnt even a big one get a hold of yourself man
edit: reading patch notes is not enough to give an opinion i'm dumb
Post edited by dallasmedicbag on0 -
"And that justifies severely nerfing the things that made him more appealing to play as than Huntress? Answer is no."
Yes, yes it does. Coinflip mechanics are never fun to face, especially not those ones that can be used every 0.15 seconds. Because the killer could fake it 5 times to see your reactions everytime so you become predictable on the 6th time, where as a survivor, you literally do not have time to react. The average human reaction speed is 0.25 seconds, the fastest possible human reaction is exactly 0.15 seconds, meaning that if you press dead hard the moment you notice the aim, you could dodge a quick shot.
Deathslinger was literally humanly impossible to counter.
As for the reeling mechanic, that is by far one of the worst attributes he has, giving that counterplay means survivors are more free to strave to left and right, meaning you cannot reel someone into a window anymore, since the chain is under constant stress. Or if you'd give counterplay to letting go of the chain where the survivor could react instantly, survivors would never use dead hard untill the moment they are freed.
And from what I have experienced and noticed, he's fine. You cant really go off short term deductions when the core gameplay went from quickscoping to being able to shoot around corners more consistently(as you're able to start aiming before turning the corner, turning overall faster). If you literally played him the way he is played now, he's gonna suck. But that is like playing Freddy the way he was played before, where you dont have snares, pallets or teleports. He would absolutely suck if you played him like he used to be played. So I literally wouldnt listen to deathslinger mains who relied heavily on quickscoping and m&a to down survivors, because that is exactly the kind of deathslinger that has been nerfed. I would listen to deathslinger mains who have more variety in their playstyle. And for those players, deathslinger has been overall better. Not that he is made stronger, he's objectively weaker, but his weaker intended playstyles have recieved some neccesary love.
I do have to clarify that I am for making Deathslinger a 115% killer, comparing him to Pyramid Head, who has similar ranges and can actually shoot through walls. I dont see a reason for Deathslinger having a 32 meter radius and being a 110% killer. Either give him a lullaby that is permanent from 24 meters(doing effectively the same as 32 meter terror radius: making M&A less powerful on Slinger), or make him 115% with 32 meter TR.
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His tr is now massive relative to his movespeed and his gun is now unnecessarily clunky. Even if he isn't much weaker he feels awful to play
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"Humanly impossible to counter" is a blatant lie, you could easily use most maps to break LOS.
Killer gameplay is almost nothing but calling coinflips survivors give us, the idea that survs should be able to juke anything but an m1 is stupid, even if bhvr agrees with it and is balancing the game around it.
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80% of the players isnt survivor only players. It's survivors AND killers. They are ignoring both the highest and lowest tiers of players, whether they are survivors or killers.
Besides, regardless if it is a party game or not, if 1 character consistently wins 65% of their matches just by playing that character, than that character needs to be adjusted. Survivors still dont even get close to an average winrate of 50%, even the best survivor perks have less than 50% escape rate. That is why you dont see survivor nerfs as often right now. Back in the day, there were a lot of perks that had a 70% escape rate when used, lots of maps that had 65% rates of escape. These have all been nerfed already.
The thing is, the way the game is designed, you personally do not feel it a victory if you see 2 survivors escaping. I had a game where I played quite nice and laid back, had 1 kill and everyone dead on hook. If it wasnt for desync screwing me over a few times(server predicting I was closer to a locker than I actually was, stunning me when I shouldnt be stunned, twice), I would have been completely fine with that result. It's just that you know you've been screwed in one way or another that makes it feel like a loss, even though by any competitive means, it's a win.
Feeling like you lost, when you realistically didnt, doesnt mean the game is imbalanced, it just means that it feels like it is.
Seriously, go ahead and start tracking your games, how often you win, how often you lose, how many hooks you've gained etc. Start tracking how often you actually win and actually lose. You'd be surprised to see that you win far more often than you lose. Yet the moments you lose feel much much worse. But did you truly deserve to feel much, much worse because of 3 games you lost, when you won 7 in a row?
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No it doesn't.
Deleting most of what makes any killer unique and fun should never be the course of action taken. It shouldn't have happened with Old Freddy and it shouldn't happen with Deathslinger. If a killer isn't unique and fun then what exactly is the point of him existing?
Deathslinger is not impossible to counter. There are other ways to counter a killer other than preventing them from landing a hit for an extended period of time. Deathslinger's 1v4 game has always been pretty bad. If you didn't abuse that, that's on you. Also since the man is a 4.4 Killer, unless he really catches you out with a basic M1 into a shot, you can hold W away from him and make him take a ton of time to catch back up. You can also break LoS like you would for Nurse. If/when you got shot, all that means is that you had an opportunity to counter him ~10 seconds ago and you failed to for whatever reason. Sure... you're going to get shot, but you can make him waste way too much time to get it.
Also... hi. Hello there. I'm a Deathslinger player who actively attempted multiple different setups and playstyles on him. Let's go through my off meta builds for him and see which ones the 32m TR will destroy, shall we? Sloppy, Tinkerer, Deathbound, and Discordance, probably won't function because it is aiming to get delay off of Sloppy + Deep wound and swapping targets. With 8m more TR, my new target is going to know they're in trouble and book it... eating all the time I gained from inflicting DW + Sloppy Injury on the other guy unless I'm following a Tinkerer proc. Thrilling, Agitation, Starstruck, Pop might still function assuming I don't just lose outright on my first chase where none of my perks help me, which is a big assumption. Stealth Slinger with M&A, Surveillance, A Nurse's Calling, and Oppression, with Gold Creek Whiskey and Wanted Poster may or may not function even though the add on changes makes running Gold Creek + Marshal Badge an option because approaching a gen while holding ADS for an extra 8m might very well be too slow. Classic Backpack build has similar issues as the Starstruck build but without the upside of inflicting Exposed on more people. My original build of Surveillance, Surge, Pop, and... Thana? geez it's been so long I don't fully remember that build... but I can't see it working with +20 seconds per chase with competent Survivors. The only build I can see still being functional is the meta of STBFL + M&A. A 24m TR is at least workable and hopefully STBFL can make up the difference. Alternatively, maybe an all out slug fest build would work... with STBFL, Infectous, and I'm not sure what else but I personally find that playstyle boring and I've heard that Survivors don't really enjoy eating dirt for long periods of time.
Honestly that Terror Radius nerf is my biggest issue. Deathslinger is our ranged stealth killer. Why are they making him not stealthy? It makes zero sense to me.
Oh and for the record, buffing him to 4.6 M/S won't help that much. He'd go from a 20s per chase nerf to a 13.33s per chase nerf. I guess he'd also be a bit better at M1 looping, but at that point you could argue you'd be better off rolling with Nemesis over Deathslinger. At least Nemmy has Zombies to harass Survivors who aren't in chase and doesn't have to reload.
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His argument was that Billy didnt need changes, yet, he did. From a gameplay perspective, infinite zoning for free is an issue. That alone warrented the overheat mechanic. They overdid it, sure, but that doesnt make it a bad mechanic. As for the addons, yeah, they were far too careful. But to be fair, they literally have tons of data where Billy literally never used addons, just perks and consistently won games.
No, I dont find him annoying, he is objectively a badly designed killer. Being weak in everything does not validate coinflip mechanics. As for stealth, well, not really. If you look at his addons, his stealth should only have been a factor when he uses ADS. Yet, who used ADS for stealth? No one. So his stealth got nerfed, and his ADS stealth got buffed. As for net negatives, they didnt know how much their ADS changes would benefit him. It could easily have benefitted him more than enough to make his chases shorter on average. If that was the case, you literally cannot make him a 115% killer, because it would make him faster AND make his chases shorter. So yes, the devs are being careful. It wasnt known to be a net negative untill practice has shown it. Changing theoretical numbers and predicting practical results is very hard to do. Remember people getting mad at Spirit losing collission with survivors while she was phasing? People claimed it would destroy her, it didnt. And that is quite a massive change. While making a tiny adjustment to Trappers trap reset(where it would stay in the place it was placed at, rather than snapping to where the survivor was caught), was such a tiny change, but had a massive impact. It is very easy for 1 tiny change to have a bigger impact than you might expect.
Yes, he did. Getting a penalty from missing an instadown, is punishing an instadown, not zoning. As for A and B: survivors dont know. The animation for 0.1% charge and 99% charge is EXACTLY THE SAME. That's free zoning. And no, I am not copying Scott. Free zoning is literally being able to push a survivor into a zone purely because of a threat without having any real penalty for doing so. Billy did not have a penalty on his revving while he still had free movement. Bubba didnt have free zoning, because his animation gave away his revving. You can still as a billy rev in front of a locker and go into a locker grab, without survivors knowing if you're at 99 or 0%. If you're at 99 and they jump out, its an instadown, if you're close to 0 and they dont jump out, it's an instadown, Bubba doesnt have this, as his chainsaw lowers before he can grab. So yes, a double penalty makes sense. The overheat mechanic is still too severe, and should lower faster outside of chases(same rate when overheating, which is 6.6 charges per second or so, while normal reduction is 3.5), while lowering slower during chase unless you overheated. Because if you overheat a chainsaw in a single chase, you've been using it to zone too much. The biggest issue with Overheat, is that it applies outside of chase equally as inside of chase.
And yes, survivor perks are objectively weaker than killer perks. 90% of survivor strength comes from items and map resources. Perks only sprinkle a relatively tiny bit on top of that. And most killer perks get ignored for the same reason most survivor perks get ignored. A lot of killer perks that you'd call niche, are actually really good. Just as the survivor perks that survivors call niche are really good. They are simply overshadowed by the same 6 perks. Heck, to drive this even further home, there are survivor perks that should be basekit for solo survivor, there are barely any perks that should be basekit for killers. The only perks I can think of that I would want to be basekit for killers are Fire Up(faster actions overall the more gens are done, it makes the endgame feel more like an endgame), Monstrous Shrine(its a bad perk, but it would be really nice if it's basekit) and a weaker version of Dying Light that applies similar to Thanatophobia, where each hook adds 1.5% slowdown(again, basekit) to healing and generators, but that slowdown is lost when that survivor is killed, encouraging killers to leave people who are dead on hook alive rather than killing them as quickly as possible. That's only 2 and a half perks that should be basekit.
Survivor perks that are so bland that they should be basekit for solo survivors, since it offers pretty much the same information as a 4 man swf:
Kindred, Bond, Buckle Up, Deja Vu, Empathy, Kindred, Left Behind(especially now), Rookie Spirit and Situational Awareness(better known as Better Together).
That's 9 perks that need to be basekit for solo survivor alone to compare with the information of a 4-man SWF. That's not even talking about perks that should be (partially) basekit like Flip Flop(if you slug a survivor on the floor long enough that they can fully recover, that should affect the wiggle speed at the very least, you could even make it 25% basekit with Flip Flop being changed accordingly), Wake Up(if you're the last survivor alive) and maybe even a rudimentary decisive strike(one that only activates if you are chased within 15 seconds after an unhook, purely to punish tunnelers) so that the actual DS can be used to prolong that timer instead.
So in total, we have 12 perks that can be argued to be (somewhat) basekit, when there are only 3 killer perks at best that should be basekit, because otherwise there are too many other perks that it could stack with.
The fact that we can have 9 perks alone that need to be basekit to equalize solo survivor to SWF, when there are barely any killer perks that can be basekit without breaking the game, pretty much shows that survivor perks as a whole are weaker. Are there strong survivor perks that are at the level of some killer perks? Sure, definitely, but even if you have 4 survivors running the 4 best perks, I can point at killer perks that are objectively stronger than those perks combined. The bigger issue that killers have, is map mobility and design. That is the biggest reason why killers and their perks feel weaker than they actually are.
And no, the reason for high kill rates wasnt bad survivors, plenty of amazing survivors that still died. The bigger reason was solo survivor. If survivors all had access to a ping system, the kill rate would easily drop to below 50%. And as for average killrates, well, Trickster has been altered quite a lot, and Nurse is heavily skillbased. So its quite obvious why those 2 killers are under 50%. And let alone that most killers do not actually run Ruin Undying anymore either.
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You keep saying survivors shouldn't have to deal with coin flips, but don't address that killer gameplay against a competent survivor is nothing but trying to react to coin flips.
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A quickscope is 0.15 seconds before you can shoot, at which point the projectile hits you within 0.05 seconds. The fastest possible human reaction is 0.15 seconds, and that is reacting to an instant, not to something repeating.
So yes, humanly impossible to counter.
And no, survivors dont have coinflips, coinflips are moments where your input doesnt matter. A 50/50 isnt neccesarily. And yes, a survivor SHOULD be able to juke anything that directly leads to a health state. Just as a killer SHOULD be able to injure at any given oppertunity they can injure. Which is why killers can still hit a survivor even if they started dropping the pallet. Heck, survivors are even able to juke an m1. It's called spinning. Works less and less the better the killer is, but even m1's are jukable.
If you cannot juke something, your input doesnt matter and when input doesnt matter, there is no interaction. If there is no interaction, it's objectively a boring mechanic. If it's a boring mechanic, it needs changes to be more enjoyable.
Post edited by Predated on0
