I Hope All Exhaustion Perks Get Nerfed Into the Ground
They are a problem. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I believe that almost all exhaustion perks are entirely too strong and beat out every other type of perk in the game besides Unbreakable in certain situations. They are destroying the game by creating an unshakeable meta dominated by chase-oriented perks. I'm tired of running them as survivor if I want to win and I'm tired of dealing with them as killer.
Tell me, why would I ever bring a perk that allowed me to see the auras of my teammates around me over an exhaustion perk. There is literally no reason to unless you just straight up don't care about winning. Why would I bring a perk that allows me to see the killer's aura when a generator is completed? Dead Hard is an option, that allows me to possibly extend the chase by minutes. So screw Dark Sight that's useless compared to Dead Hard. That is what I am thinking as I go to select perks.
What would I do? Nerf all speed increase exhaustion perks to 130% speed and put some sort of breathing penalty on exhausted survivors making them easier to track during a chase. This would make it so survivors don't just gain as much free distance just for existing, and there is a sort of trade-off. Gain free distance in a chase, but become an easier target. Of course, the speed increase will always be worth the stealth penalty, but at least there is now a better chance for the killer after the survivor gained free distance.
Dead Hard should slow you down at the end of the animation, but keep the I-frames. That way it can't be used as an "oopsie, made a mistake, let's just pretend that never happened :)" button. This would force survivors to use the perk as it is intended; a perk that allows you to juke the killer as they swing for you.
Anyways, rant over. What do you guys think? Are exhaustion perks a problem, yes or no?
Comments
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Get better.
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another muttery post =.=
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So like, Smash Hit? haha youre funny
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I have, and I'm tired of pretending for the past 5 years that they're okay.
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Are they really an issue? If you really have trouble give mindbreaker/blood echo a try
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Sometimes I see people using Fearmonger? It's hard to tell how popular or unpopular it is but it did get a bit of a buff this last patch (it now applies Blindness on top of Exhaustion) so it might be worth a shot? At the very least it makes it so that if they're working on a generator, and you start running at them, they can't just break into Sprint Burst and run away for instance, and they won't have Dead Hard or Decisive Strike for a bit after they break off the gen either.
Obviously it's not a silver bullet against Exhaustion perks, but it's something. 🤷♂️
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Like them or not, they take a skill and thought from the survivors to use. Iron Will is the perk that needs a nerf imo.
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Thats not gonna happen :)
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Other than dead hard which is long overdue a nerf I disagree. Smash hit could do with a buff and the rest are fine as is.
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I haven't run an exhaustion perk since the hatch update. I have an 85% escape rate.
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Well try to give you an actual answer instead of "get gud".
I definitely agree that exhaustion perks are the strongest tools in a survivor's arsenal. After all the only thing a survivor can do in a chase is waste your time as a killer, right? By design they are going to fall eventually given that resources are limited and Bloodlust exists as a mechanic. The point of those perks then is to increase the distance between them and the killer, thus giving them more time and taking time away from the killer should they choose to commit to the chase.
Perhaps it's less that the perks are too strong, but that you haven't found a way to work around it. I don't think they are problematic enough that there must be a downside to running them in addition to the exhausted effect. After they utilize the perk to run away, perhaps your time is better off leaving them be and pressuring a different part of the map. If not, then the chase goes on for a little while which is natural.
Of course, if you only care about escaping/killing then just run the most strong perks. They're the strongest for a reason, and if you nerf those into the ground then another set of perks are going to be considered the strongest and then those will be called to be nerfed. As a parallel to what survivors have, I believe a killer's strongest tool is generator regression/ slow-down perks (outside of their power of course). Survivors have to play around perks and add-ons just as much — if not more — as killers have to. That said you do not have to use those perks to win a game at all.
TL;DR Exhaustion perks are strong, but not overly powered in my opinion. Strong perks exist on both sides, they increase your chances of winning by a lot but they aren't necessary.
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Pft, nah...heck, balanced landing is my favorite exhaustion perk and there are times it doesn't work or the killer manages to assassins creed me from 20 ft away after I have zoomed off...
I can't tell you how many times I have accidentally wasted sprint burst...
Head on is SUPER situational...
Adrenaline is niche...
Dead hard is pretty strong for a couple "I frames" and TINY distance creator, but FAR from op.
Lithe is decent, but you gotta vault to use it.
Exhaustion perks are fine.
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Your comparison doesn't make any sense. Information perks are way different than chase ones, that's like saying "why should I run BBQ when I can run Bambozlee".
I think Sprint Burst and Dead Hard should be toned down, but everything else is fine.
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The issue is they beat out all other perks in the game. I don't struggle against them (aside from Dead Hard being used for distance), but I have a problem with them being constantly used because they are too strong compared to all other survivor perks. Doesn't matter how much skill they require. The meta will never change if exhaustion isn't touched. They are annoying and I'm tired of dealing with them as killer, but I wouldn't say I struggle against them.
Again, I don't need advice. I have 2k hours on killer. I think I know how to play against these perks. It is time for the meta to change in my opinion though.
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They're all tools to help the survivor escape, aren't they? Dead Hard helps more in more scenarios than Alert or Bond. So these perks won't be used until something changes.
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You being tired of dealing with them isn't grounds enough to nerf them unfortunately. I'm tired of dealing with NOED I suppose, but that doesn't mean I should stop doing bones. High DbD mmr is boring for a reason (completely assuming you're high mmr) and that's because you're playing around the same four or five perks.
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If you fail to see the value in those perks, that sounds like a you problem.
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theyre fne, sprint burst and dead hard are the only actual good ones, lithe can be countered, and balanced landing is situational
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exhaustion perks were some of the last things i went after when i started playing a ton of survivor since i'm more interested in fun/meme-y stuff
sprint burst was the one i ultimately chose, when i actually put it on the game turned comparitively easymode (even in low mmr hell with friends) and i either was completely unchaseable for the killers i ran into (barring a few major sb counterers) and wound up 1-hooked to death in the end (so i started putting on the very fun and very fair ds-deliverance combo) or ran them for 3 gens before going down, that massive initial distance on some maps..
personally i don't think iframes should even exist on the 4 in a 4v1 game let alone a horror one but what can you do
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Exhaustion perks and regression perks are just these perks that do way more than a single perk should be doing. This isn't a 'what about' thing but rather me agreeing that there are just some perks that do WAY too much and give way too much power for just one slot or makes a survivor far too powerful. Dead Hard is the biggest culprit, as it makes ONE survivor far too powerful at delaying the killer, which in the current state of the game means so many gens are going to pop with little they can do, and thus makes for an unbearable experience.
I think a fair action would be to nerf some of the exhaustion perks, as I don't think ones like Head On or Smash Hit are an issue, especially dead hard, and counterbalance with a revision on regression perks. Way too many killers rely on them and it makes for bad habits. Playing without them is a difficult task reserved for those actually wanting a challenge or just want to try new things, that may not be for everyone, so a compromise of just adjusting some to be in line with other perks would be nice. See how killers manage with less regression at their disposal while survivors manage with less power in their exhaustion.
Still doesn't fix core issues like maps, but that is why I stand that Corrupt intervention shouldn't be touched, at least not until a SERIOUS map rework is done, and not what we've had the past year or so.
tldr; Agree that survivors crutch way too much on exhaustion and propose that both exhaustion and regression be revised simultaneously to make it 'fair' and see how the games go with these changes.
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I just want to play against a different set of 4-5 perks. The current ones have been on the throne for too long.
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I do. Problem is 99% of people I play with don't.
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They serve different purposes though. If you play solo queue, you know how valuable information perks are. It doesn't matter if I have Sprint Burst if I run to a location where my teammate is doing a gen.
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You're right, because Smash Hit and Head On deserve nerfs.
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ordinarily i'd support this but there's a lot of places on rpd where the only accessible hooks have an unavoidable corridor locker in the way
more a map design issue than a head on issue but regardless
what would you think of a non-exhaustion smash hit that amplified your pallet stun durations
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I was being sarcastic.
That's definitely just a map issue, but RPD is a map fill of issues.
Honestly, that version of Smash Hits sounds way more infuriating. I already dislike getting stunned.
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that is true
however: why is there a sprint-type exhaustion perk revolving around pallet stuns and what else could it possibly do that wouldn't prol be worse
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Half of the killer roster has a way of countering exhaustion perks. Just get good.
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Ugh, I really should have clarified better. I want these perks nerfed so that other perks have a chance to shine.
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one thing i've been thinking about a lot lately is an alternate setup to the base game mechanics
like the current massive speedup after taking a hit is actually perk-based and that's your sprint burst
probably crazy thoughts but a dilapidated game designer can daydream
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The only exaus perk that can be a pain as killer its DH but the rest are balanced.
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try a predominantly sprint burst-based swf that's constantly informed of your location via voip
on midwich
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh bbbbbbbbbabyyyyyyyyyyy
and then they call you [sheesh] in postgame despite basically rigging it in their favour
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I mean, the devs could nerf exhaustion perks into the ground but we all know what will happen. There will be a new meta, survivors will adapt to use it well, and then it will be called OP too.
At the end of the day, I'm not a fan of exhaustion perks (admittedly because I use them so little I tend to forget I have them) so I'm good either way, but people need to come up with a better idea for things they find annoying than just "Nerf it into the ground" That's not asking for balance, at least not balance for both sides, that's just going to the extremes due to frustration.
Some people have some decent ideas, but the whole "Nerf it, it's not fair' idea just makes me roll my eyes when either side does it.
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while your name is obscenely cute i must point out that exhaustion perks -are- the meta, have been since their introduction and always will be best in slot for one of your perk slots and there just isn't any way around it - these are perks that an entire shared status effect cooldown system was made for and constantly nerfed they were so insanely potent for a one-off
so in that sense, you do need to actually hit them if you want to disrupt them for perk diversity because put whatever other perks you want in the other three slots, sprint burst/dead hard/lithe/balanced landing on the right map is absolutely and wholly superior to any other option as far as gameplay/points/living is concerned
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I mean, I never argued that they shouldn't be touched, and I understand your point, but my point was; You can certainly get exhaustion perks nerfed to uselessness, but a new meta would appear and then the whole circular argument will come again.
I will concede however, I do not play on a very competitive level, and I think that's where a great divide on opinions can happen. I get to what was the top end purple tier most months as I play a ton of other games, so I don't get the 'frustrated to the point I want to tear down' whatever inconveniences me the most in matches, though I understand how easily it can happen.
I just don't think that the nuclear option will always give the results people think it will as we have learned time and time again.
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i don't want anything to be pointless either, naturally non-designers will be quite hamfisted in their approach with suggestions given they often feel personally accosted by particular things in the game hence said nuclear option
but it's a given why they often start with exhaustion perks since it's 16 perks vs 4 and in reality it's 12 vs 4 because the first four in a decent lobby are dedicated to potentially making every single chase (including after pickups/hookbombs since that resets it) an absolute hell
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Base survivor with coms is op. Just look at otzdarvas latest experiment where he won 85% of his survivor matches with no perks. Perks are the icing on top that tip it over the edge.
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Oh I understand the hell, it's why i do my best to not be a complete douche to killers both in and out of the game. I play killer very little these days, because it IS frustrating and a lot of the time you feel as useless as a chocolate tea pot, I simply don't have the mental fortitude for it. Can't imagine what it would be like in red ranks, i'd tear my hair out.
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you might want to die if you ran into what i run into on my distinctly lower mmr killers, let alone my high ones lol
this is the sort of example i'd give with my definitely mid mmr bubba who i only really play to farm since the game hates me and doesn't give me barbecue 3 on many killers, 2 at best guh, at any rate there's a reason since sbmm i've gone from 90% killer to 90% survivor
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How does it take skill to jump off a cliff, press E, Jump through a window, and to just run?
The only ones that I can say takes skill is smash hit and maybe head on.
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Yeah no, you just perfectly illustrated why I'm just too soft for killer, but thank you for the giggle because that was beautifully described.
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not sure if many people appreciated the post, it waaaas a bit off-topic in that thread lol but either way
if want an example of that, pay attention to this extremely good bubba's rev time and then imagine it on midwich, fun video at least
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all of these perks with the exception of head on are extremely strong. why are you downplaying their strengths?
if these perks weren't good (especially DH and SB) then you wouldn't see them almost every ######### game. they're extremely meta because they're extremely good.
they are 100% skill replacer perks that do not require thought to use beyond "ooga booga i see vault, i must use that for lithe ooga booga/ooga booga yes i see dropdown, must use that for balanced"
i stopped running all exhaustion perks except Smash Hit (the one that you actually have to make an outplay in chase to use) and got MUCH better at survivor. you feel the lack of DH to carry you in chase, but that's the point. DH and the rest of the exhaustion perks besides head on and smash hit will carry the ######### out of you because they give you dumb strong benefits for little condition.
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as a killer main, I feel like dead hard can make chases more interesting, and a good dead hard is always respectable. sprint burst is a boring concept but hey, it works. mostly everything else is not really a problem, or you trying to tell me that smash hit and head on are op?
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*Here come the unskilled dead hard users ready to die on the hill of being garbage and relying on a perk to not get annihilated immediately*
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I disagree besides Dead Hard, Dead Hard can go ######### itself though. I hope it gets a total rework or nerfed into the ground.
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A lot of exhaustion perks are useless. Sprint Burst is good when used properly, but 9 times out of 10, it's just Megheads and Blendettes incapable of looping. Dead Hard is strong when used to gain distance, but to dodge an attack, it leaves you exhausted on the floor most of the time, due to latency. Lithe sucks, because you'll most likely get latencied hit during a window vault, you'll get the speed boost without the perk anyways. Balanced doesn't work on every map, though I do admit it's annoying on maps it can be abused on. Head On is limited to a small hitbox, something the devs can never manage to get right. Smash Hit is survivors wasting their resources. If you know they have it, you can always respect pallets or with a ranged killer, make their perk unusable.
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I think there's really just a problem with Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. A lot of the other exhaustion perks are circumstantial or has a risk-reward. Sprint Burst, and Dead Hard, however, are just free, 0 counterplay value that has a big impact on chase. They could use a fat nerf for the same reasons that Deathslinger and Spirit did.
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lithe is underrated with a decent connection on local servers (i.e. <50ms ping) since it's a major distance gainer unlike dead hard but without the map restriction of balanced landing and without the restriction of actions taken of sprint burst
it also tends to catch people off guard the most since it's pretty clear what someone's up to when walking away/looking behind them when injured + going for an extra loop/moving to a drop point that they're going to take a hit on yet people always are horny for vaults
you follow them through or around the corner and by the time you see them again they're a mile away and welp, sprint burst is a lot more conservative of the killer's time in my experience even if far easier to chase deny with than lithe
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Imagine complaining about perks that strengthen the very core of the game for survivors which is chases.
Here is an idea, sure they can get rid of exhaustion perks when they introduce rifles, dual guns and bats. When survivors can properly defend themselves by being able to fight back.
No more than extending chases. Then you can go ahead and get rid of these “meta” perks.
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