Spirit: Now that the release panic is over; or "Killer's with low movespeed"

cTrix

I think by now we can all agree that the Spirit is underpowered. Most notably nobody is playing her at all.
I played her myself a bit, and I have to say the reason for that is that her movement speed is so low. Suvivors don't need to pallet loop her, they just need to run in a straight line and you can never catch them.

"But cTrix, she gets movement speed from her ability so it balances out."
Except it doesn't cus you have to stand still to charge it, it's not even enough to catch up to a survivor that's running in a straight line. The net gain is close to zero.
For some reason the devs keep giving the female killers this lower movespeed (+4 strength?), and insists they're supposed to be "ambush killers". Then why does the Wraith have normal movespeed? Also you don't have to be a genius to see that Spirit (and Hag) aren't even close to "ambush killers". Most notably because they have no way to sneak up on anyone.

So please, give them the same movespeed as the rest of the killers. Idk what your logic was for giving them low movespeed, but whoever had that idea is clearly wrong and it's time to admit it. Some ideas sound great in theory and then don't work at all. It happens all the time but not admitting when it happens is the sign of a weak ego. Literally the worst killers in the game are all the killers with the low movespeed.

azazer

No one playing her = you need to have skill to use her. She isn't a pick up and play character, you have to know survivor habits and headphones are pretty much required.

Can't catch survivors running in a straight line is factually incorrect

I agree I dislike having to come full stop to use her power, but add ons offset hey ability to catch up on a chase. Otherwise, you should use her ability to ambush victims, not to give chase. 

"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

I_am_Negan

Spirit main right here

SmokePotion

I use the heck out of her in Red Tier. In fact, if I have bad games with other killers, I usualy go to the spirit to guarantee a good game. She takes chase skill to use. you have to understand how people like to escape in order to get hits with her power. But even if you suck at that, her power is AMAZING for map pressure. She can run from ones gen to the next really fast. Making the survivors have to do the gens she wants them to do (i make them do anything elevated personally, cause they have advantages there, where I can easilly control anything in the open)

In short: I find amazing success with her, add on free at ranks 1-4 on PS4 and and since im now climbing the ranks on PC, i can tell you there isn't to much difference in the playerbase skill. Just more bodyblocking on pc.

Weederick

Spirit is toptier

cTrix

@azazer said:
"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

That was supposed to say Spirit. Spirit can't sneak up on anyone. Her terror radius doesn't go away when she's invisible, it just sounds differently, also you have to guess at where survivors are. Assuming you hit someone despite those disadvantages, they will sprint away and it will take you so much longer than any other killer to catch up. Then they use a pallet or a window and they're off to the other side of the map again.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

Blueberry

I definitely wouldn't call her weak, I actually think she is quite strong. I personally would just like some tweaks to her in form of less addon dependent mostly( a lot of killers for that matter). Bake a little into her base kit and adjust addons accordingly. Also, her ultra-rare ring why does it even have a penalty of no scratch marks? Makes it trash. I'd rather use the only SLIGHTLY slower green addon with zero downsides. The fathers glasses should've been in her base kit as well.

Also, the sounds changes they made a while back really hurts her. You used to be able to hear a lot more and Stridor used to be a lot better.

willcenx

"They just need to run in a straight line and you can never catch them."

It's the easiest way the spirit can catch survivors actually. I even surprise when see that survivors don't fake their movements and just run in a straight line, so they make it so much easier to me.

GodDamn_Angela

I think she is fine.

I'd love a movespeed buff since I main her and it would make her insanely good.

@cTrix said:
Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

Nevermind you're a troll.

Dabrownman1812

It's called stridor and bloody hair brooch, so consistent the second hit comes out with little effort. The silent phasing, excellent with gen pulls, and totem builds for that devour hope. 

SmokePotion

@cTrix said:

@azazer said:
"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

That was supposed to say Spirit. Spirit can't sneak up on anyone. Her terror radius doesn't go away when she's invisible, it just sounds differently, also you have to guess at where survivors are. Assuming you hit someone despite those disadvantages, they will sprint away and it will take you so much longer than any other killer to catch up. Then they use a pallet or a window and they're off to the other side of the map again.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

@GodDamn_Angela said:
I think she is fine.

I'd love a movespeed buff since I main her and it would make her insanely good.

@cTrix said:
Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

Nevermind you're a troll.

Or simply a rank 17 up killer. There are some people hard stuck down there I've heard.

GodDamn_Angela

@SmokePotion said:

@cTrix said:

@azazer said:
"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

That was supposed to say Spirit. Spirit can't sneak up on anyone. Her terror radius doesn't go away when she's invisible, it just sounds differently, also you have to guess at where survivors are. Assuming you hit someone despite those disadvantages, they will sprint away and it will take you so much longer than any other killer to catch up. Then they use a pallet or a window and they're off to the other side of the map again.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

@GodDamn_Angela said:
I think she is fine.

I'd love a movespeed buff since I main her and it would make her insanely good.

@cTrix said:
Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

Nevermind you're a troll.

Or simply a rank 17 up killer. There are some people hard stuck down there I've heard.

That's possible? Its sooo easy to rank up though, you don't even have to try.

Though, even down there The Hag is a beast.

powerbats

I see rank 1 Spirits all the time now because she's got such good movement speed while phased and unlike Billy can actually sneak up and grab you off a gen.

Mc_Harty

Spirit is underpowered.

Haha... no.

TatsuiChiyo

Maybe on PC this is true? I main her on PS4 and I feel like a bully popping in and out of existence. The thing with her is that you just need to keep map pressure on. Though if the devs make her better I won't complain

VolantConch1719

@cTrix said:

@azazer said:
"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

That was supposed to say Spirit. Spirit can't sneak up on anyone. Her terror radius doesn't go away when she's invisible, it just sounds differently, also you have to guess at where survivors are. Assuming you hit someone despite those disadvantages, they will sprint away and it will take you so much longer than any other killer to catch up. Then they use a pallet or a window and they're off to the other side of the map again.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

Have you PLAYED Lisa (Hag) lately? I used to hate her with every ounce of hate I had (which is a lot, contrary to how people normally see me). Now she's one of my favorite killers. And Amanda (Pig), well... that one really depends on how nice RNG is to you. She can be either atrocious or an outright monster in my personal experience.

Gottlos

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

I did not realize this lol, I'm mostly a Freddy main as well, cannibal isn't payable imo though. 

Honestly, with The Spirit, her perks alone seem the most op.
Rancor is essentially super buffed BBQ and chili, see all survivors regardless of distance, don't have to actually do anything to see them, comes with noed light.
Haunted ground is the easy trap for low levels and an annoyance if you also bring another hex perk.
Spirit Fury is the chase ender almighty with only needing to break 2 pallets. This is her most balanced, at least the stun still happens.

Mix all of that with a nurse/bingBong level of invisibility and mobility and you have a killer that, as a survivor, is not at all fun to play against and is straight up op.

The thing that gets me with her is that she doesn't have any real balance, no risk reward like most others.

Bravo0413

Gottlos said:

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

I did not realize this lol, I'm mostly a Freddy main as well, cannibal isn't payable imo though. 

Honestly, with The Spirit, her perks alone seem the most op.
Rancor is essentially super buffed BBQ and chili, see all survivors regardless of distance, don't have to actually do anything to ee them, comes with noed light.
Haunted ground is the easy trap for low levels and an annoyance if you also bring another hex perk.
Spirit Fury is the chase ender almighty with only needing to break 2 pallets. This is her most balanced, at least the stun still happens.

Mix all of that with a nurse/bingBong level of invisibility and mobility and you have a killer that, as a survivor, is not at all fun to play against and is straight up op.

The thing that gets me with her is that she doesn't have any real balance, no risk reward like most others.


I don't understand this........ rancor isnt an aura reading perk therefore it shouldn't even be compared to BBQ...... why do players think that the location of the survivors when a gen is completed is aura reading? Aura reading is the exact location seeing where the survivors are running too... rancor shows the previous location meaning by the time you get there the survivor is gone... 

Dabrownman1812

VolantConch1719 said:

@cTrix said:

@azazer said:
"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

That was supposed to say Spirit. Spirit can't sneak up on anyone. Her terror radius doesn't go away when she's invisible, it just sounds differently, also you have to guess at where survivors are. Assuming you hit someone despite those disadvantages, they will sprint away and it will take you so much longer than any other killer to catch up. Then they use a pallet or a window and they're off to the other side of the map again.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

Worst killers are definitely Hag and Pig

Have you PLAYED Lisa (Hag) lately? I used to hate her with every ounce of hate I had (which is a lot, contrary to how people normally see me). Now she's one of my favorite killers. And Amanda (Pig), well... that one really depends on how nice RNG is to you. She can be either atrocious or an outright monster in my personal experience.

Due to ranking system, more low skill survivors in deeper ranks

Master

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Blueberry

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Master

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

Master

@azazer said:
No one playing her = you need to have skill to use her. She isn't a pick up and play character, you have to know survivor habits and headphones are pretty much required.

Can't catch survivors running in a straight line is factually incorrect

I agree I dislike having to come full stop to use her power, but add ons offset hey ability to catch up on a chase. Otherwise, you should use her ability to ambush victims, not to give chase. 

"Wraith has no way to sneak up on anyone" 
If you can't sneak up on someone mostly invisible and with no heartbeat then your technique is flawed.

Worst killers in the game, Freddy and bubba, have normal movement speed

If you dont use your ability to chase, then you are a 110% killer that commits to runing out the loops. That will result in an insta loss sadly.

Blueberry

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Master

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

Eight

@GodDamn_Angela said:
That's possible? Its sooo easy to rank up though, you don't even have to try.

Not possible for a killer, surely!?!

Recently playing on someone else's account as a survivor. And f*ck, getting into and past the green ranks is tougher than I remember. Every other survivor is a complete buffoon. I _lost_ a rank in front of my people, which was pretty humiliating, before I started to crawl up.

Blueberry

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

Master

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Weederick

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

Master

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

So nurse is the only one that can deal with SWF, still you claim she is overpowered and put other killers onto the same tier as her? I dont get this tbh

Weederick

@Master said:

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

So nurse is the only one that can deal with SWF, still you claim she is overpowered and put other killers onto the same tier as her? I dont get this tbh

Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress

If SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?

Blueberry

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

This is what I'm saying ^^^

Nurse is in a whole other league.

Master

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

So nurse is the only one that can deal with SWF, still you claim she is overpowered and put other killers onto the same tier as her? I dont get this tbh

Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress

If SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?

Ahh so remove SWF and nerf nurse?

I kinda agree, that would make the game more balanced

Weederick

@Master said:

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

So nurse is the only one that can deal with SWF, still you claim she is overpowered and put other killers onto the same tier as her? I dont get this tbh

Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress

If SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?

Ahh so remove SWF and nerf nurse?

I kinda agree, that would make the game more balanced

KInda, if it was that easy :P

Justicar

@Weederick said:
Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress

If SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?

Nurse isn't OP, she's utterly broken. But she has to be to counter SWF, which is also broken.

Dabrownman1812

Justicar said:

@Weederick said:
Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress

If SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?

Nurse isn't OP, she's utterly broken. But she has to be to counter SWF, which is also broken.

Nurse like all killers have counterplay, most people dont know how effectively do it cause of the lack of god nurses. 

Master

@Justicar said:

@Weederick said:
Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress

If SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?

Nurse isn't OP, she's utterly broken. But she has to be to counter SWF, which is also broken.

@Blueberry said:

@Weederick said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.

What does top tier mean in your opinion?

or is nurse hyper tier? (usually top tier is the highest one^^)

Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.

This is what I'm saying ^^^

Nurse is in a whole other league.

So either we accept that we are balancing the game around "broken power lvls" or we reduce the power overall.

This means either remove SWF and nerf nurse or keep SWF and lift other killers up to nurse.

Soren

For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

Weederick

@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.
Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.

Blueberry

@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

While I agree on her needing a little more baked into her base kit and addons adjusted accordingly, I heavily disagree on her only being mid tier. I'd put her above probably anything but nurse and billy. Hag does not even come close to "GUARENTEE" hit every trap. Unlike the spirit she is heavily countered by non idiots that know what they're doing. Spirit is much more consistent and harder to counter. I 4k probably 8/10 games with her at rank 1 consistently, she's a lot better than you think she is. (this is primarily only yellow addons btw)

Soren

@Blueberry said:

@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

While I agree on her needing a little more baked into her base kit and addons adjusted accordingly, I heavily disagree on her only being mid tier. I'd put her above probably anything but nurse and billy. Hag does not even come close to "GUARENTEE" hit every trap. Unlike the spirit she is heavily countered by non idiots that know what they're doing. Spirit is much more consistent and harder to counter. I 4k probably 8/10 games with her at rank 1 consistently, she's a lot better than you think she is. (this is primarily only yellow addons btw)

A good Hag has no counter other than genrushing. It's as simple as that. She is even stronger than Nurse in chase, because Nurse can be juked, while a good trap will prevent any play from the survivor side, because of the camera flick which is an utterly strong mechanic while mastered.

An example of a (really) short chase:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNELNUdZUQ

An example of a strong camera flick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6wSAmlyvK4

Regular game when you have a perfect web:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtrJ3aJGzw

Because of her limits, Spirit relies on a very strong prediction in order to do great. Her charge animation, relatively slow phase speed, and short duration forces her to do wild guesses in chase - you have only one chance.

Because of that, and after you hit a first time, you have to make a choice: either use your power to close the gap and waste an additional time being looped while on cooldown, or assume they will try to reach a safe location to cheese a hit from the other side - for example, looping counter-clock the cow tree or a main building.

This is not what I call a "viable" power. I'm a strong Spirit, I have excellent games, but I am not allowed to do any mistake AND survivors need to screw up in order to down them quickly. Not even talking about Dead Hard which is an extreme nightmare to deal with since it forces you on cooldown.

Fortunately, survivors are utterly bad at mindgames and also pretty predictable. But anyone with a bit of braincell can outplay Spirit, and then the best choice is to switch to a weaker target, which does not make Spirit a great killer.

Master

Weederick said:

@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.
Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.

Nurse is the only top tier killer, no other killer gets even close to her 

Weederick

@Soren said:

@Blueberry said:

@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

While I agree on her needing a little more baked into her base kit and addons adjusted accordingly, I heavily disagree on her only being mid tier. I'd put her above probably anything but nurse and billy. Hag does not even come close to "GUARENTEE" hit every trap. Unlike the spirit she is heavily countered by non idiots that know what they're doing. Spirit is much more consistent and harder to counter. I 4k probably 8/10 games with her at rank 1 consistently, she's a lot better than you think she is. (this is primarily only yellow addons btw)

A good Hag has no counter other than genrushing. It's as simple as that. She is even stronger than Nurse in chase, because Nurse can be juked, while a good trap will prevent any play from the survivor side, because of the camera flick which is an utterly strong mechanic while mastered.

An example of a (really) short chase:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNELNUdZUQ

An example of a strong camera flick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6wSAmlyvK4

Regular game when you have a perfect web:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtrJ3aJGzw

Because of her limits, Spirit relies on a very strong prediction in order to do great. Her charge animation, relatively slow phase speed, and short duration forces her to do wild guesses in chase - you have only one chance.

Because of that, and after you hit a first time, you have to make a choice: either use your power to close the gap and waste an additional time being looped while on cooldown, or assume they will try to reach a safe location to cheese a hit from the other side - for example, looping counter-clock the cow tree or a main building.

This is not what I call a "viable" power. I'm a strong Spirit, I have excellent games, but I am not allowed to do any mistake AND survivors need to screw up in order to down them quickly. Not even talking about Dead Hard which is an extreme nightmare to deal with since it forces you on cooldown.

Fortunately, survivors are utterly bad at mindgames and also pretty predictable. But anyone with a bit of braincell can outplay Spirit, and then the best choice is to switch to a weaker target, which does not make Spirit a great killer.

Regarding spirit, i see it different tbh. She's more like nurse, its about the killers skill that matters. The survivor can do some jukes and make it hard, but the spirit has the power in the chase. It feels right.

You dont want to phase immediately after a hit, since you dont reach a survivor as you said. Just chase him for ~5s after a hit and then go phase. That way you use it as gap closer AND a hit. Instead of using it to catch up and then chasing for 5s, you chase them for 5s first and then you use your power to both catch up and mindgame.
Or you use Stbfl, then you can do whatever you want and save cooldown on top.

Weederick

@Master said:
Weederick said:

@Soren said:

For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.

Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.

Nurse is the only top tier killer, no other killer gets even close to her 

Then you're terrible with billy, hag, spirit and huntress. They dont have to come close to a broken concept to be toptier.

Master

@Weederick said:

@Master said:
Weederick said:

@Soren said:

For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.

Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.

Nurse is the only top tier killer, no other killer gets even close to her 

Then you're terrible with billy, hag, spirit and huntress. They dont have to come close to a broken concept to be toptier.

Do you seriously believe that any killer can get close to a competent nurse?

Weederick

@Master said:

@Weederick said:

@Master said:
Weederick said:

@Soren said:

For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.

Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.

Nurse is the only top tier killer, no other killer gets even close to her 

Then you're terrible with billy, hag, spirit and huntress. They dont have to come close to a broken concept to be toptier.

Do you seriously believe that any killer can get close to a competent nurse?

I told you multiple times already, that nurse is overpowered unlike others. And you keep asking me why i think they're equal. Please learn to read. I also dont ask you, why you think that nurse is the weakest killer.

GodDamn_Angela

@Eight said:

@GodDamn_Angela said:
That's possible? Its sooo easy to rank up though, you don't even have to try.

Not possible for a killer, surely!?!

Recently playing on someone else's account as a survivor. And f*ck, getting into and past the green ranks is tougher than I remember. Every other survivor is a complete buffoon. I _lost_ a rank in front of my people, which was pretty humiliating, before I started to crawl up.

20-17 isn't even green though lol.

Blueberry

@Soren said:

@Blueberry said:

@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.

It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.

@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...

While I agree on her needing a little more baked into her base kit and addons adjusted accordingly, I heavily disagree on her only being mid tier. I'd put her above probably anything but nurse and billy. Hag does not even come close to "GUARENTEE" hit every trap. Unlike the spirit she is heavily countered by non idiots that know what they're doing. Spirit is much more consistent and harder to counter. I 4k probably 8/10 games with her at rank 1 consistently, she's a lot better than you think she is. (this is primarily only yellow addons btw)

A good Hag has no counter other than genrushing. It's as simple as that. She is even stronger than Nurse in chase, because Nurse can be juked, while a good trap will prevent any play from the survivor side, because of the camera flick which is an utterly strong mechanic while mastered.

An example of a (really) short chase:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNELNUdZUQ

An example of a strong camera flick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6wSAmlyvK4

Regular game when you have a perfect web:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtrJ3aJGzw

Because of her limits, Spirit relies on a very strong prediction in order to do great. Her charge animation, relatively slow phase speed, and short duration forces her to do wild guesses in chase - you have only one chance.

Because of that, and after you hit a first time, you have to make a choice: either use your power to close the gap and waste an additional time being looped while on cooldown, or assume they will try to reach a safe location to cheese a hit from the other side - for example, looping counter-clock the cow tree or a main building.

This is not what I call a "viable" power. I'm a strong Spirit, I have excellent games, but I am not allowed to do any mistake AND survivors need to screw up in order to down them quickly. Not even talking about Dead Hard which is an extreme nightmare to deal with since it forces you on cooldown.

Fortunately, survivors are utterly bad at mindgames and also pretty predictable. But anyone with a bit of braincell can outplay Spirit, and then the best choice is to switch to a weaker target, which does not make Spirit a great killer.

This is just so incorrect. First of all yeah hag chases can end quickly if the team is a bunch of idiots who don't properly handle her traps. You counter her by eliminating her traps when she is unable to use them and this isn't even getting into flashlights, UE, or how she is stuck to the area where her web is built generally. No counters but gen rushing is just complete nonsense. I'm not saying she isn't strong, she's definitely one of the top tiers. However, you are way, way over exaggerating her. Hag is quite easily counterable.

Next, I don't think you play spirit properly if you really are guessing. I don't need to make guesses with her because I have good headphones and can hear them out. Spirit is also not stuck to one area of the map with her ability. Her power is much, much more reliable than Hags is in relying on a survivor going somewhere specifically, the spirit doesn't care where they go. Yes you can push them in the directions you want to go, but that's something the Spirit doesn't even have to do or rely on.

Your videos are simply proof of some idiots who chose NOT to try and counter her at all and suffered the consequences, that shows nothing.

Zanfer

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

What is the percentage of competent swf cause I would like to know the stats on that. If you claim a killer has to be top tier to deal with a group, knowing how much of that group is in the game would also have to be a factor to consider..

Master

@Zanfer said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

What is the percentage of competent swf cause I would like to know the stats on that. If you claim a killer has to be top tier to deal with a group, knowing how much of that group is in the game would also have to be a factor to consider..

Doesnt matter how often a competent SWF will appear.
We talk about tiers here and nurse is without doubt ALONE on the top tier

Zanfer

@Master said:

@Zanfer said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Blueberry said:

@Master said:

@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptier

I still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.

Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF

Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.

If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier

You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF

Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.

Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?

What is the percentage of competent swf cause I would like to know the stats on that. If you claim a killer has to be top tier to deal with a group, knowing how much of that group is in the game would also have to be a factor to consider..

Doesnt matter how often a competent SWF will appear.
We talk about tiers here and nurse is without doubt ALONE on the top tier

Not arguing that nurse is top tier. We all know that. It is a good question though how many competent swf can you run into? I guess a lot of variables are there so it is very hard to actually know. Makes sense why you don't know though