So deathslinger is unplayable now

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  • Labrac
    Labrac Applicant Posts: 1,285
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    All M1 attacks have the same range, hitbox and speed, including the ones you mentioned. https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Basic_Attacks

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited October 2021
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    Yeah, that was a bug. He lost all momentum near objects because of it, that is fixed already.

    Killers have different animations, but range is same. What can be different is movement speed some killers keep it for their lunge after power like Wraith, or Spirit.

    You are trying to compare Wraith with ranged killers, that's when...

    Deathslinger's movement speed never change, so he doesn't have better lunge from his power.

  • SonicOffline
    SonicOffline Member Posts: 915
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    The wiki does not mention anything about hitboxes or animation direction, and in my experience the horizontal quick attacks behave differently than vertical.

  • SonicOffline
    SonicOffline Member Posts: 915
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  • Unifall
    Unifall Member Posts: 747
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    The best thing about slinger is how opressesive he was at chases 1v1 mainly. If you played very well you got rewarded. His downfall was and still is gen defense. He can't pressure multiple gens being 110%. Imo he should have at least 2 bullets basekit. That way he's punished for missing but doesn't lose ground if he has another chance.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    Alright, then if you wanna compare just m1, then you are even more wrong. It's just an animation, otherwise same for everyone.

    You had chance with Lunge, but even there you are wrong. It's just an animation, only thing that can be different is movement speed of the killer.

  • SonicOffline
    SonicOffline Member Posts: 915
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    This whole time I was only comparing M1's. Everyone else took off with everything else lmao

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    Yeah, because you mentioned Wraith. Attack from his power is Lunge, so it can seem like there is difference.

    Noone thought that you talk about actual M1, because every killer has same M1, only thing that change is animation, but range is same.

  • TheDuhJ
    TheDuhJ Member Posts: 475
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    "According to the wiki" If you need the wiki to tell you then you know its a problem. He doesn't have a lullaby either like the other two. But Trickster doesn't damage on hit either. If Deathslinger lands a good mind games shot at a tall wall structure, he basically always gets a hit. Trickster has to make at least 3 mind games and hit 2 shots per mind game to = a health state. Deathslinger and huntress only have to do it once and they get a hit (except with dead hard and very rare instances where Death slinger just cant reel the survivor in close enough.

  • Labrac
    Labrac Applicant Posts: 1,285
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    You can test on a KYF if you want. All of them are the same.

  • Lochnload_exe
    Lochnload_exe Member Posts: 1,360
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    The nerf was super justified and against an even semi-competent Deathslinger, you basically lost every chase without any interactivity. Making a killer take a little more skill is good design, he was already bad design from the beginning. He does definitely need a buff in other areas, and he should have gotten those buffs with the nerfs, but his chase was easily the most oppressive in the game and the nerf was warranted.

  • SonicOffline
    SonicOffline Member Posts: 915
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    I did mention Wraith after talking about M1's and mentioning very different attack animations, after talking about how I like to M1 a lot more than shoot on Slinger. I never once said lunge or anything else.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    "Survivor movements are all the same. "

    Well, that explains why they were crying so much... maybe try to be unpredictable? It helps a lot against any ranged killer...

    "It's no different then huntress"

    Oh, so this should be same, but what about every limitation DS has compare to her?

    Should we remove range cap, should we let him down over pallet, or any window?

  • SonicOffline
    SonicOffline Member Posts: 915
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    I implied they were different, and clarified that in my experience they seem to be. And I'm hardly new to the game lmao. I'm ok with being wrong, I'm not ok with people engineering conversations and putting words in my mouth.

  • foxsansbox
    foxsansbox Member Posts: 2,209
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    As a Deathslinger with hundreds of hours who knows just how hard some of those shots were against good survivors BEFORE the nerf, I'd like to join whoever the other person was and call you out for some footage of your Deathslinger currently.

    Afterthought: Your description of survivors hugging walls against DS is downright disingenuous. Survivors with more than two wrinkles in their brain aren't making it that easy for Deathslinger.

  • ignaeon
    ignaeon Member Posts: 106
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    I need the wiki to tell because I have never faced a deathslinger only played as him

    I admit to forgetting about his lack of a lullaby, he is the only ranged killer worth using undetectable on.

    Trickster effectively does 1/6th of a health state per hit. The only way for a survivor to make you lose progress on this is to escape you.

    Mind games are in favor of survivors, given they can look and move in different directions, most walls at which mind gaming is an option there's a window, and in addition to left and right the Alway's have the option to just w away. An option particularly effective against slinger in particular.

    Trickster doesn't care as much since you can afford to miss, meaning just throwing knives on the way to a loop is a decent idea. Slinger needs to commit to his shot, which is why it's used as an anti loop tool so much.

  • TheDuhJ
    TheDuhJ Member Posts: 475
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    Trickster cannot afford to miss at loops, but you are right he can miss in more open areas and juking is a less effective in that situation, but hands down it feels better at tall walled loops and loops in general if you are the nerfed Death Slinger than buffed Trickster all day long.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    Yeah, quick-scope was most interesting thing about him and made him different from other ranged killers.

    I just couldn't care less about him now, he is just worse, less fun version of Huntress.

    So as someone above said, only reason why to play him is that you like his hat...

  • SavouryRain
    SavouryRain Member Posts: 340
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    And that's fine that you disagree, but you're in the minority.

    They changed him because the overall feeling was that as a Survivor you didn't really do anything to influence Slinger missing or not. And it feels bad when the Survivor has no real counterplay to the power.

    I can dodge knives/hatchets/bottles, but I can't dodge a ranged attack that has virtually no wind up.

  • UnknownKiller
    UnknownKiller Member Posts: 3,024
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  • Zarathos
    Zarathos Member Posts: 1,911
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    May I recommend nurse. It might technically not be a ranged killer but your almost as fast as slinger and when you think about it your the bullet. Also you get to bypass obnoxious map issues like breakable walls and multiple story buildings. That would be my advice to the Deathslinger players in general. Pick up nurse play something that rewards you for time invested. We gave feedback behavior didn't listen time to move on. Most content creators or survivors will not be happy with slinger until he stays in an overnerfed state. Blight add on's will likely be next. A key advantage to consider is nurse doesn't have enough players playing her to provoke a nerf blight does. Already the blighted crow, alchemist ring add ons op has started. Behavior doesn't do half measure so expect some nasty addition be made to blight.

  • foxsansbox
    foxsansbox Member Posts: 2,209
    edited October 2021
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    The dude has clearly never seen such survivors. He is of the camp that believes just wagging back and forth is the only counterplay.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited October 2021
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    I play Blight a lot instead, when I want top killer.

    I am decent Nurse, but I have big issue with multi layer maps, because I am used to look sligthly down, so I often teleported down even when I didn't want to :D

    Replacement for DS is Trickster and Nemi for me

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,238
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    This topic is very interesting so I'll chime in.

    Ranged killers emulate longer lunges. Unlike normal lunges, Normal lunges have no cast time or wind-up and activate instantly. They're also harder to hit miss because you curve their hitbox which is why 360's are not effective vs competent killers.

    Deathslinger's gun was closest thing to an extended 18 meters lunge as wind-up of his gun was only 0.15 seconds+travel time. I'd wager travel time was somewhere between 0.2-0.8 seconds. It gave you just enough time to react to hit gun as long you weren't pointblank. His gun extended his lunge range because when your hit by his gun, the gun is stun and it restricts your movement. It allowed most loops to be unsafe, though it largely dependent on where he shot you from.

    If the survivor is really good at judging distance, most of the killers cannot reposition themselves to be in lunge range(Such as Nurse) or do not have enough lunge distance to capitalize on fast-vaulting pallets due to the length of a wall. so if a pallet is safe, you can generally camp it until killer breaks the pallet. There isn't such thing as medium vaulting pallets like there is for windows. His power largely balances out the 1vs1 aspect for killer in my opinion.

    I think the reason why survivor hated deathslinger and also trickster is that deathslinger can rotate open-pallets at 110% and even though he is only 10% faster, they still catch up to the survivor slowly, so eventually deathslinger will instant quickscope a shot as he approaches closer to you and good deathslinger have a good understanding how much durability their chain has and which shots they can reel compare which shots they cannot. So for most part, deathslinger broke typical mold of loop pallet twice->put down pallet->killer breaks pallet->shift-w safely to another loop.

    I think the reason why people do not really complain about huntress doing that at open loops is largely because her hatchet has 1.25 second wind-up and requires additional 1.75 seconds of extra charge up(3 sec total) and during this time, she is very slow, She also has a much easier to read throwing motion as she does not throw hatchet instantly. if I had to take a guess, its probably like 0.25 seconds from her releasing the hatchet, experienced survivors can sometimes crouch her hatchets when rotating open pallets and pre-move before she throws it though the hitbox is pretty large. Overall I do not really understand the whole trickster and huntress aspect because in my opinion, A skilled Huntress should be able to down a single survivor within 3 hatchets throws, so I personally do not really understand too much about the whole trickster 44 knives too much ammo argument. If survivors actually played trickster, they'd realize he has too little ammo and constantly reloads twice as much as Huntress. Deathslinger having infinity ammo to do this probably puts false impression that he is impossible to counter at these loops, but he is no different than what other ranged killers could achieve with average aim.

    Overall the whole deathslinger "can't react to his shots" just boils down to not being able to 1vs1 killer therefore killer is unfair & unfun. You'll just have to find a new main for killer for like 2 years until survivor's stop complaining deathslinger and he gets reverted from being pathetic. Survivor fun is clearly prioritized over killer fun. So it does not matter that he is unplayable vs good players because that is the case for most of killer cast.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    This.

    They should have increased the penalty for missed shots to 3 seconds.

  • Ruse_Cruise
    Ruse_Cruise Member Posts: 43
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    As someone who bought this game specifically for Deathslinger, this nerf was annoying. Moving quicker while ADS is really useless as if you are moving too quick you’re more likely to miss as this nerf has just made it more aim around the survivor and wait for them to come into your iron sights than aim at the survivor, and I hate that as it takes away the skill of aiming. But other than that he still plays mostly the same.

    free zoning on survivors not paying attention, can still land hits around certain loops. As I said this nerf has taken away the skill of aiming and replaced it with: just put the gun up around them and wait til they come into the iron sights.

  • JacksonWise
    JacksonWise Member Posts: 651
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    I don't necessarily mind the ADS nerf because survivors couldn't really counter quick-scoping, but they didn't give him enough in return to compensate. Also, the terror radius increase really bugs me because now he is the only ranged killer with 110% m/s and a 32 meter terror radius, which is REALLY bad because survivors have more time to just shift + w and he doesn't have the range to make up for it unlike Huntress.

  • Cubed_Sphere
    Cubed_Sphere Member Posts: 10
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    “Just aim earlier”

    while yea that’s true hit box for the shot it self seems very inconsistent

  • Labrac
    Labrac Applicant Posts: 1,285
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    100% agree with this. Nurse is basically a Slinger that shoots through walls. She fills the hole where he used to be for me.

  • Verconissp
    Verconissp Member Posts: 1,576
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    ...He is unplayable,

    Even as a former slinger main.. i refuse to touch him, they killed him here and there,

    #UnnerfSlinger

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    Yeah, only one of them were looking behind... So yeah, if survivors don't even try to react to your shots, it's not an issue, but decent survivors will look behind them and will be able to dodge it on reaction and you are forced to zone at that point, which I find boring af.

    And he didn't 3 clips you managed to get during your 5 hours stream. Game is more interesting, so we can tell how bad those survivors actaully are. That is hard from one clip.

  • Mileena_Kahn
    Mileena_Kahn Member Posts: 600
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    He needed a nerf. Character was brain dead, and didn’t even have to work for a hit, just had to fake his gun to make the survivor lose distance and BOOM.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    Yeah, noone has problem with fake ADS nerf, that was good thing...

  • dallasmedicbag
    dallasmedicbag Member Posts: 571
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    it's not that bad really, just get used to the time it takes to shoot and predict, as well as preaim. in other words, git gud lul

  • RenRen
    RenRen Member Posts: 1,443
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    Deathslinger isn't unplayable nor impossible to work with. He's just worse and a lot more unfun. I do agree that the change was a bit much.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    You shot them over short loops, so hard when you can actually just shoot over it...

    Try to play around those rocks, or car, where you can't just shoot over it. Then you are #########, because that 400 ms means that you lost survivor, so you have to play m1 as 110% killer, unlike Huntress you have no hope in getting down over pallet.

  • JacksonWise
    JacksonWise Member Posts: 651
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    That's a fair criticism, but I feel like Trapper's traps are a bit different because players generally know to avoid grassy areas and that any loop you take against him could risk getting snagged in a trap. So you could just shift + w from one end of the map to the next if you really didn't want to get trapped. With old Deathslinger, you were literally trying to dodge a projectile that he could fire faster than you could react to.

  • dallasmedicbag
    dallasmedicbag Member Posts: 571
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    while i do agree that quickscoping with slinger pre-nerf was fun as hell, your point on "using the environment to help" doesn't really work as DS can just walk backwards and pull the survivor 2x faster. environment can only help if you are far enough from the slinger maybe 24m and above.

    also that trapper analogy made no sense to me, maybe there's a better example?

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
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    What you said makes no sense. In an FPS, the target has the option of dodging. It is no different in this game. Let’s also not forget that DS’s is not hit scan- it is a projectile with travel time.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,294
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    But the whole point of the quickscope is that you can't realistically dodge it except for hoping that the Slinger misses. You can dodge when he actually aims, but if he quickscopes you don't have enough time to react. That's the entire reason he was changed to begin with, combined with the fake-into-hit problem.

    Slinger's problem right now is that he feels clunky, and I'd suggest just making him raise his gun a touch faster so it doesn't feel as clunky without being as fast as the quickscope was before.

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
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    Actually, it’s not that simple. The nerf didn’t just hurt him in that he can’t quick scope. The additional time makes it now impossible to hit a survivor when they are rounding a corner or at a loop with a high wall (which is the majority of loops in this game). He feels absolutely useless now.