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Dead Hard Hit Validation Is Extremely Punishing
In the last two games I have been hit validated by DH 6 times. It not only extends the chase because of DH, it makes it even worse now I have to wait the Attack CD. It's not like these were last minute dead hards, as the survivor it was "I made a mistake that I should've been punished for, but because of Hit Validation on DH....I dont get punished".
If I am not mistaken 5 out of those 6 hits, were because of mind-games at T and L walls, or jungle gyms. I mind-game them but because Hit Validation prioritizes the invincibility frames in DH over the Hit, they get away when I earned that hit/down.
Hit Validating pallets was one thing. It did make it harder for killers even with low ping because it cause pallet camping to be EXTREMELY safe. Though hit validating DH was not the move. It punishes killers for effectively making good reads, or mind-games.
Please do not tell me "this is rare" from my last two games, this will happen AT LEAST once or twice a game. It will happen even more if survivors realize it's in their favor so they can waste more time. I honestly didn't even know this was a change until I hit people Dead Harding but they didn't go down.
Once again killers are slowly becoming completely useless in a chases around T and L walls or jungle gyms. This had nothing to do with "Killers should've have gotten the hit so it shouldn't count". That 1 extra second you wasted swinging and hitting a validated DH...just costed you another 5-10 seconds of chase time even for a mediocre survivor.
Comments
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I'm a basement bubba main now, they can't DH me from the hook.
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Unironically chasing survivors is slowly becoming a way to LOSE the game. Like I said, I can somewhat get behind Pallet Hit Validation, even though it made it easier to loop pallets safely.
Now they enabled the Healing Boon again, on top of this....I'm going to start letting people bleed out on the floor or basement camp.
I except a HUGE killer rework soon or this game will be a joke. If I'm being honest, give every killer 5% added to their movement speed. It will make the game more interesting instead of Survivors just greeding DH because of Hit Validation, and greeding Pallets because....once again, Hit Validation.
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exactly. the more bs is added to this game for the survivors, the less I want to play normally and instead do something like facecamp bubba or basement trapper. because chasing is becoming the most boring and frustrating thing.
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DH is one of the more annoying things in this game for me. It's not enough to learn the tiles, it's not enough to profile each survivor in game to predict their pathing and mind games, it's not enough to make the mental catch to bait/wait DH each and every time you are about to hit a survivor, now you have the extra 50/50 of server validation to make the whole DH experience just that little bit more inconsistent
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I'm honestly trying to at least play Devils Advocate to figure out a reasonable justification for this but I honestly cant. The farthest I get is, "It's fairer for survivors to not get hit when they shouldn't have". But "shouldn't have" is being so disingenuous. I have once....one time...been exhausted on the floor since the Dedicated Servers. The issue is, people think they should be able to infinitely greed DH and pallets. And that's what hit validation does.
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You wanna know something hilarious that NOBODY will point out. I will try and break it down because it may be a bit confusing at first.
So, what do you notice about all the "hit validation" stuff. All of them are things done by the survivor or actions. They are instant and immediate. Whats one thing that immediate and instant that the killer does...action wise? Looking away from flashlight saves.
Hitting before DH or dropping a Pallet on your end as killer doesn't matter. But ALSO looking away from a flashlight save on your end doesn't matter.
My point is, as a killer we can get blinded for a flashlight save even on our end we looked away. But why isn't this validated? They DIRECTLY effects the killer. Just like DH and Pallet hits DIRECTLY effect the survivor. You can bet just about anything they will never do a "blind validation" because it directly effects the killer.
Just for those who are still not understanding...the actions effect eachother this way.
DH Hits: Killer -> Survivor (VALIDATED)
Pallet Hits: Killer -> Survivor (VALIDATED)
Grabs: Killer -> Survivor (VALIDATED)
Blinding: Killer <- Survivor (Not Validated)
Now my point should be obvious.
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Yeah, it's either going to need to be reverted or have the perk nerfed. I don't expect it to get fixed any time in the next 6 months though.
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Here is a suggestion...remove the invincibility frames. If anyone complains, then they were never using Dead Hard the correct way anyway, and just playing greedy. Which CURRENTLY you can greed DH so hard because of the hit validation.
What makes DH "op" is the fact it can be used to make enough distance to gain another 10-15 seconds in chase AT LEAST. With a good survivor you can be getting chased for almost another 30 seconds if you know the tiles. So why not encourage people use it the BEST way.
Remove the invincibility frames.
It sucks to say but today might be my last time playing killer until something is done about the how survivor sided high MMR is and THIS being the cherry on top.
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It's so unfair for killers. I guess it's fair to deny survivor players movement because The Killer benefited from the lag advantage. However, now that DH is validated, the world is ending, and it's super unfair. Meanwhile, an unfairly downed survivor due to the competitive advantage given to killers is ok because The Killer saw the hit, and his client confirmed it; it doesn't matter what the survivor saw or the server. Sounds super entitled and biased.
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Assuming an average of 2 DH users in a game, a Killer has to play around up to 6 DHs.
As a DH user, lets say you can get 3 DHs out on average in a chase before each hook.
We've made the experience more inconsistent for Killers, and DH is already a very unfun perk from a Killers perspective. Simply because you wanted to greed DH for an extra 10th of a second.
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First, lets be honest and stop being disingenuous. How many times a match would you say a survivor gets exhausted on the ground? None. It's more along the lines of out of every 10 games SOMEONE will be exhausted on the ground.
Now I ask you, stop being disingenuous and tell me. How many times will this hit validation effect hits that were earned rather than this "laggy killer" boogeyman? That's right quite a few.
I bet while you typed that, you didn't even stop to think of bs that killers have to endure getting blinded when they clearly looked away. And even YOU saw them look away. Who is really biased here?
This hit validation stuff just enables survivors with decent ping to play so greedy and be rewarded for it when in reality they SHOULD have been punished for it. I am willing to bet 99% of all the times people get exhausted on the ground, are because they played WAY to greedy.
Playing greedy isn't the way you should be rewarded. Making smart plays should be.
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So is the flashlight blind validated on survivor client side?
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I dont understand..
Did people forget how Dead Hard worked just because it actually functions properly now???
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So we'd have no issue removing the I-frames right, since it's not supposed to be used that way anyways, right?
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Nah, I stand by my statement. You don't even attempt to address it other than with anecdotes. It doesn't matter how many times I've seen someone exhausted on the ground or what I may speculate. That amount is immaterial and doesn't advance anything you've stated. Hits are still handled on the killers' end, and that is the very definition of unfair. Stop lying to yourself here; you're so biased you can't even articulate a valid justification for it. Focus or move along.
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I don't think you understand that is doesn't JUST function properly now. It's way more nuanced then "The Server checked if it should've hit". The main key missed here is there is an animation BEFORE a hit is counted. With DH, once that button is pressed the action is done.
I would have to do some testing to say for 100% certain, but from my experience on both killer and survivor side. It seems to be validated on the survivor's client.
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You forgot the part where getting validated means your ping is high and if you're laggy as surv you won't get a fl save
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Typing "Dead Hard Hit Validation" into YouTube yields hilarious results.
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Removing the i frames would only fix avoiding special attacks, people would still be able to dodge hits.
Just look at what happens when you try to hit some one whos in the middle of a sprint burst, majority of the time youll lock on to them but whiff because theyre moving too fast
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You also forgot the part that DH is an instant action, and hitting is not.
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This isn't entirely true. Since we will be looking at the animation for the hitboxes, I think nearly all of the time (when a survivor greed for far to long) people will end up getting hit when using it this way. DH has a ramping "dodge" the start of the animation is a slow "walk" before the actual dash. Sprint burst just pops you to the speed if im not mistaking which leads to misses if you swing, because you anticipated a different speed then what actually was there.
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before dedicated servers you literally could react to killers swing consitently, now it works as should potentially.
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They're actually the same speed but ok
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Demands? What demands did he make? Quit digging a hole, this guy is eating you alive haha
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Incorrect. Once you've hit Dead Hard, the i frames start the very next frame. Hit's and swings are very clearly animation based.
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Dh already freezes frames on console, now we will get rollback on top of that 🤨
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"That brings this conversation to a close."
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It comes up in the search bar after “dead hard” there’s lots of videos.
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That's a statement, not a demand. He is saying he is backing out of the debate (I don't blame him, you basically implied he had no foresight). He's not demanding anything of you, simply stating he's done with the chat.
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Off topic, I really feel for you guys still on the old consoles. I couldn't play the game on them without wanting to break something.
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Sadly, the game is, as of today, a huge joke. I don't know about you but I have been playing since the game out. This is the update that killed the game. The pallet validations, the dead hard and the boons. LOL. My god, I have no idea what they were thinking.
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I mean that there are several videos like this:
that are hilarious to watch.
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Ah, the luxury of text rather than speaking. My mistake.
Either way my point still remains that he has no foresight once so ever. This isn't just "yOu ShOulD nOt hAve hIT aNyWay". I figured someone that seems as smart as him, would know that.
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Why is it funny watching survivors scream not going down?? 😂
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I just switched to basement bubba myself. I love the club so far.
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I think his core argument that the server is fairer than picking either of the 2 clients makes sense.
Shame though he didn't respond to my post, where I pointed out that Killers spend way more time playing around Dead Hard, so it may not be as simple as sacrificing both experiences results in a fair experience for all, as it feels like just sacrificed consistency on one side, for no consistency on any side (now more is subject to latency).
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Scream into Pallet Vault during cooldown is the new meta :P
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I wanna hear this in Elodie and Laurie’s voice!!
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You may find your games will not be as stressful anymore. Guard that chest well!
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I guess I will main Hag for a while. I can usually teleport and hit before they can get a dead hard off.
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I think we all understand for the survivor it's more "fair", but it's at what cost? That's what he is missing.
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Well the cost could be the continued downfall of the game I guess. Eventually Killer will be too unfun to play and we'll see growing queues again.
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Just because you can't abuse your bad ping doesn't mean you can get a free hit. Now DH is working properly.
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So compared to 30ms ping, is 35ms ping bad?
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All these hits are "exhausted on the ground"
They fixed a broken perk. Don't be mad, you didn't deserve those hits in the first place.
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Its true if the devs are going to full care about survivors they should tread killers the same same. While hit validation exist we as killers get blinded even when looking away and from angles that we don't even see anything wich is the most bullshit thing that can happen. Its time that killers get some QoL changes too.
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It's really more that you are accustomed to getting downs from DH that you didn't deserve. Now it is working as it should.
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Greeding for milliseconds just to win a lost mind-game is "working as it should" is an interesting take. Even for you Sluzzy.
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As far as Im aware the survivors hitbox wouldnt really affect much since the killers attack cone has a semi large radius. And DH doesnt have a start up animation, its just an increase of movement speed (250%) for I believe 0.75 seconds or 1 second.
And test it out yourself, hold down a lunge right as a survivor starts using Sprint Burst, most of the time the game will force you to swing early and attempt to lock on to the survivor. Because when you hit some one your camera will flick in the direction of the survivor
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Interesting. The animation always looked as though it had a few frames that seemed to be "start-up" before the actual dash.
Though even with the i frames gone I think this will remove the "I won a lost chase" scenarios. As an example being, when you dead hard into a wall because you f'ed up, just to avoid the actual hit. Including the times where survivors do the flashlight dead hard.
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