Does Jeepers Creepers have another chance to be in the game with the new movie?
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I don’t play Minecraft nor am I aware of what exactly you are referring to.
If you’re trying to justify Victor’s crimes, then this conversation can end here, if not then please enlighten me.
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I mean Europe by in large criminalizes even racist remarks; I'm just wondering where this double standard ends & begins. Seems like you could rationalize throwing out quite a bit. Everyone gets it, nobody likes Victor with good reason. Jeepers Creepers is still a pretty good movie. Seems like we just won't see eye to eye friend.
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I replied to your post. I don't think the tag worked (for some reason it seems to work differently with @'ing people on the wall).
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Yes! Less Emotions / No Emotions = Better!
Starlost made a couple of good points about the essence of rehabilitation and paying for your crimes, ones that are impossible to argue against because the only alternative would be as he mentioned the death penalty or similar.
I don't particularly know myself if I believe that people truly can "change" or if they just learn that they don't want to get in trouble and punished by society again - I do believe that deep down every human is born in their DNA/genes with certain traits and characteristics that eventually evolve into who they become and I don't think that those can change and in many cases criminals who do violent crimes for example do not have the ability to even feel bad or remorse about what they have done, it is not in their DNA to feel for others or imagine the true nature of their crimes.
I do agree however that people are able to change their behavior, regardless of who they are deep down inside, so whether or not this person would still remain a pedophile if they could be because that is what they are sexually attracted to, perhaps he has learned to not act on those urges and hold back at all times. In case of a pedophile - which is a different topic all together and not one I am very familiar with - but I can only imagine it must be horrible to be sexually attracted to children.. I do think it must be a sickness people are born with to some extent, because I personally am not and have never been sexually attracted to children so I have no idea what that must be like, just like I am not sexually attracted to men either, but women turn me on. Society is finally allowing people who are born sexually attracted to the same sex or feel like they are born the opposite sex to become gay, transgender, etc, and I think that is a good thing - because people feel they are born that way and want to be who they really are. That doesn't really hurt anyone else, but a Pedophile on the other hand has to commit crimes and potentially destroy a child's life in order to satisfy their sexual desires, just like serial killers have to do their thing to get themselves off.
It's certainly not an excuse, and they SHOULD NOT do it, even if they have the urges they need to know that it's a terrible thing and they shouldn't do it. But I wouldn't know what it feels like, because I don't even get those type of urges fortunately, and never have. They do, they're born with these urges, which is why I think it's some kind of mental illness that is abnormal in these people who do such things.
Anyways I went off on a bit of a rant there just on the topic of change - bottom line, I agree with what you said, I too have changed quite a lot from my former self to the person I am today - in fact I can tell you that when I was in Elementary School I was rather considered a "bully" because I was a really big kid (5'8 in 4th Grade) and the other kids were scared of me and I didn't even know this until I was told by some parents, but I guess the kids always felt like they had to do whatever I suggested because they were scared of me..
Anyways, I was given that information in 6th Grade - and then since then I have changed my ways to never be that way again and for the past 20 years or so I have been told by numerous, countless people that I am the nicest/kindest/friendliest person they have ever met!
So yeah, I believe people can change, but it's all mental, and to what degree are people successful and what can trigger them to fall back on their old habits or urges? It gets a bit too complicated for me personally haha.
I will end on this final note on the actual Topic of conversation of this Thread before I derailed it a bit, stating that ultimately from my personal view, having just learned about this Pedophile guy and his relation to Jeepers Creepers - I don't support his actions as a Pedophile, I don't have to like him, in my eyes he is a Criminal, I don't really care whether or not he's truly changed and learned his lessons from the punishment of his crimes, I don't really know if he's truly been rehabilitated or not and it doesn't make me like him any more or less because I still think he's a terrible human if he was convicted of these crimes, and I'll probably never meet him or talk about him again ever again after this thread.
But I f**kng like Jeepers Creepers, and that's not going to change, because it is a FACT.
Just cause I don't like the guy behind the movie, doesn't mean that when I watched the Movies I ENJOYED THEM. I would be lying to myself if I said that I didn't. Jeepers Creepers isn't perfect, or awesome, it's somewhere in the middle of mediocre and great, and I love that tune they sing, and I have good memories of it, and nothing can take that away from me because it is real.
So yeah - I guess as others have said - "Separation of Artist from the Art"? Or whatever. It should hold true in all cases not just some cases - this is the correct way to think because thinking any other way is being hypocritical. People can choose to be hypocritical and that's okay, but it is not a logical viewpoint because being a hypocrite is technically a flaw.
EDIT: I had to censor my F** word manually because it wasn't censored automatically for some reason and I didn't want to get in trouble XD lol I always thought words got censored automatically on these Forums?
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Rather ironic now that its name is the creeper, isn't it?
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I'm not the kind of person that bullies or instigates a mob of sjw's against people for their opinions, nor do I like the idea of ruining someone's life over them (cancel culture) as I believe that they have the right to say whatever they want, just as much as we have the right to debate, argue, bemoan or ignore them for it... but not the right to attack them. I'm more of a "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." kind of guy.
However, I DO hold people accountable for things they've done, and through their actions, have caused others painful consequences, especially if what they did created victims of innocent people, and said consequences still linger to this day. Victor Salva falls under this category of people. Creative though he may be, paying him for his art feels dirty upon learning/knowing what he's done. Even on the set of Jeepers Creepers 2, the staff had to keep him at a distance from all of the young boys in the cast as he was apparently overly friendly with them, and when he couldn't get close to them he started making unnecessary demands that there needed to be more scenes of the Minor aged male actors showing off more skin (shuddering in discomfort here). He may have never re-offended, that we know of, but considering that information from the JC2 set, I would argue that it's not because he's a changed man, and more because no one was stupid enough to let him.
While you do raise valid points about "forgive and forget", some things are just too hard to forgive, and no one will ever let him forget it. If that means boycotting his art as a way of informing him his work is unwelcome due to his infamous past, as nothing else will hit as hard as a loss in his bank account, then I'm all for it.
So they paid him for the rights to make the movie, but the question is... will he still get royalties from the movie sales? or do the makers of the new movie now own all the rights, and are the only ones who will make a profit on the franchise from here on out?
If it's the former, then BHVR will not likely bring the character to the table for licensing negotiations.
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Well, I suppose I would accept or at least consider the argument that:
"I like Jeepers Creepers, I want it to be in DBD because it would be a cool license to add, I have enjoyed the movies in the past, but despite wishing that I could have all of these things and knowing that I would probably enjoy them and they would bring my life some sort of positive happiness or entertainment value, I CHOOSE not to because I do not want to support a convicted criminal in any sort of way. It's really a shame that this person had to do these things, and I happened to find out about it, because now in good conscience I simply have to "ban" something that I actually like from my own life."
This is a respectable decision that I guess is what some of you have made, including BHVR possibly, that I can logically agree with because you are actively deciding to void yourself of some pleasure for the cause and morals you believe in.
I don't particularly know if I am this strong myself, to do such a thing, however I think the counter argument that many people have pointed out about this and why it is still "best" to "separate the artist from the art" is that if you really knew all the bad things that people did in the world and reacted the same way to every single form of art or creation then eventually there would be very few things left in the world for you to enjoy.
I'm certain that plenty of things that we enjoy in life have a horrible history behind it, but what is life without any of these things? Well, I don't particularly care to find out - I think it's simply easier on the brain to just separate the two which is why people have been saying that in this thread quite often.
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Creature created by a pedo in order for him to try and justify being pedo. Nah. I'm good. If BHVR wants a creepy scarecrow villain they can create a better one without all the pedo.
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It's not a matter of forgiveness or forgetfulness.
It's a matter of practicing what we preach as a society. It's all well and good to say 'I believe people can change' or 'it should be about rehabilitation as well as punishment' - but too few people actually adhere to this in their own lives.
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If that happens I will leave the game. I have personally seen what it does to a human being to be sexually abused as a child. I heard a scream because she had a flashback to that time and I will never forget the scream that came from her. it's the most haunted sound I've ever heard. Just thinking about that scream makes everything turn in me.
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You never even acknowledged my compliment! :( cries
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Oh.
Thank you!
Yes, this sort of thing is horrific.
That said, putting a character into a video game is in no more an endorsement of this than putting Cthulu in your game is an endorsement of racism.
Don't let people you hate taint the things you enjoy.
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it's not about hatred. I do not intend to support a game that gives money to a pedophile. it is disrespectful to the victims.
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No matter how it is presented, rebranded and detached from Victor Salva...the stench will always follow.
It would be bad press.
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Of the crimes or slights against others I'm willing to forgive, ######### and Pedophilia aren't among them...I guess I should have lead with that. Honestly, I'm willing to forgive many actors, directors, and members of the entertainment industry for their crimes, but those 2 and premeditated murder are by and far ones I cannot let pass.
Point of fact, where pedophilia in particular is concerned, due to personal reasons, I can no longer see those convicted of it as anything that classifies as "human". The definition of a "Monster" is a creature that traditionally and intentionally preys upon the innocent, and what is more innocent than a child? When Victor Salva first started directing, he was a person, but when he took advantage of the innocence and naivety of his minor actors to satisfy his own perverse needs, he became a monster. Try as he might to reclaim his human status, be it through repentance or time served, I still can't regard him as such due to my own experiences and hatred for this kind of monster.
Child predators and Rapists are known to take advantage of the court systems, and more often than not, become repeat offenders regardless of how much they've "paid to society", and I just can't bring myself to trust, much less endorse/fund someone like that. While he may not have re-offended to this date, that little voice of doubt rings in my head that says "that we know of" or "yet", especially after that information from the Jeepers Creepers 2 set emerged.
I admit, I may be in the wrong on this, and he may finally have earned his 2nd chance, and doesn't deserve the hate everyone gives him... but if these forums here are having THIS much of a difficult time of it over his past just from a simple post asking if it would be possible to get one of his creations established in DbD... do you honestly think any company, like BHVR, would ever want to associate themselves with him or any of his Properties?
The Creeper is a great character and idea, I'll grant him that, but unfortunately the source of it is outright destroying the chances of it ever becoming part of DbD due to his infamy. Honestly that's actually kind of ironic, considering that they are willing to put a character that is, by cannon, a pedophile in the game. I guess when it's a pretend one, it's not as bad as the real deal.
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There is no circumstance possible where I will support someone getting cancelled for a out of context tweet
however, a out of context tweet does not compare to abusing a child and having lord knows how much child (I am not saying what it is but it rhymes with photography)
Victor ruined a child’s life, and indirectly supported ruining the lives of many more, under no circumstances does that warrant forgiveness after his sentence was served, and if what people say about his behaviour on the JC2 set is true, then he hasn’t changed in the slightest
i’m all for separating the art from the artist when the artist happens to have opinions that most people find uncomfortable, molesting a child and watching videos of other children going through the same thing is not something you can just ignore
your willingness to forgive people is admirable, really it is, but if we are willing to forgive the ######### Victor did then were do we draw the line?
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I only liked the first movie so dont really care about the new one
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What he/she (and I) are saying is that the person who created a piece of media should be immaterial to your enjoyment of that media - or more accurately, other people's enjoyment of said media. It's in no way an endorsement of that person.
Again, it's not forgiveness or forgetfulness. He certainly shouldn't be allowed around kids unsupervised. Honestly, he should have served a much harsher sentence. There is no point in time where what he did becomes acceptable. If I had my way...yeah, I'll stop there.
What it is, is respecting the system and not engaging in the sort of soft vigilantism that has become so endemic of modern online society, particularly in 'progressive' spaces. It's not our place to hand down additional punishments after the legal system has done it's part, whether or not we agree with the outcome. And yes, it's not always easy or pleasant.
Beyond this, unless it's an autobiographical piece, the artist is immaterial to the art. And more-so, it's immaterial to the enjoyment of said art by others.
Agreed, I hate the movies after #1.
That said, #1 is in my top 10 modern horror movies. It's a good film, genuinely creative and spooky while never taking itself too seriously.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
I'm not giving that series a cent until that Pedophile ######### is rotting in Hell tyvm
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Twitter essentially got mad over Notch's beliefs. Don't remember what it was, and I'm sure nobody actually remembers. If I ask people here, they'll just throw out things they barely remember, or how Notch was -ist and -ic, every word under the sun. :)
And no, because that's not my point. The point is the situation regarding the IPs, and how one was made by a "problematic" person and should therefore be boycotted and yet it's still here + people are allowed to play it without getting canceled and doxxed... VS Jeepers who has also gotten the scorn of people but people can't support that because they'd be "supporting their legacy".
This is obviously a blatant double standard. Anyone who specifically takes the "supporting their legacy" stance has to be consistent or they have to admit that IPs can be "purified of their problematicness".
(Also, just as a note, I think pedophiles should be burnt. I hope nobody here tries to do the "You SUPPORT VICTOR???" thing again. Because this is insulting.)
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This I agree with. Thank you.
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Did you just compare electricity and cars to a still living and breathing pedophile?
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I'm not sure why exactly people are so against the creeper, an idea from a man who did horrible things, but they're completely ok with Freddy, a character who was and is a pedo and did horrible things to children. Obviously there's a difference in one being just a character and the other being the idea from a horrible person, but it's still a little odd to me.
The argument of not wanting a flying killer though makes a lot of sense. But that could be circumvented by creeper simply floating around like nurse, or having his power be something like a stationary vertical flying used to gather information before dropping back down to resume running on the ground
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