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Which Killer was the greatest failure?
Legion? Wraith? Twins? Trickster?
Which Killer do you feel was the greatest failure in terms of design and why?
Comments
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Trickster.
A killer that doesn't even fit the game to begin with, paired with an extremely weak power that later became extremely annoying.
It was a recipe for disaster.
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Twins.
Honestly though, the entire chapter was a technical failure as things some like perks and the killers themselves had massive bugs.
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Released Legion and old Hex: Ruin
Currently I say IMO
DeathSlinger, Twins, Legion.
Cowboy got hit to hard with the nerfs and might never been seen again. Twins and Legion got some changes to make them a somewhat better, but they still need overhauls.
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I wouldn't call them "failures", but every 110% MS killer has something problematic in their design.
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Also Legion. Let's be real people only play them to express their inner edgy teenager.
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Twins.
You can argue about this or that power being bugged or nerfed or weak, but Twins is a failure on every level.
Ugly, frumpy character model that isn't scary or horrifying or gross. Just dull. Even the monster-baby isn't grotesque.
Pathetic lore that is as boring as it fails to justify the means, drive, or background for being a killer in the first place.
No power what-so-ever in the base form, while the baby form is mostly recycled. Victor has Legion-style speed/blindness and Demogorgon-style pounce. But the core design relies on you using that on injured survivors only (and is only strong if survivors 1) don't heal and 2) don't stick near one another to squash the baby. The whole thing relies on just downing and moving on, which solo people HATE and SWF trivially punish.
The only thing unique about Twins is Victor grabbing onto an injured survivor or standing as a sentry, but neither of these are well developed enough to be the crux of the power, so it's another failure. And that's to say nothing of the recent nerf, making a bad killer feel even worse to play.
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Dang the Trickster hate...I will agree he isn't a good fit merely from an aesthetic stance, but I think he is just fine as a killer. His buffs made him decent enough imo...I like using him, but he COULD use some grittier/creepier cosmetics.
Twins is definitely the big failure. Charlotte isn't the LEAST bit intimidating and victor is just annoying. The dude above me basically already said it best.
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Despite loving his concept, art, and trailer, I'd consider Trickster their biggest failure so far:
- His knickname doesn't reflect his game-play or character as well as it should
- His power is bland relative to the roster before him
- His power lacks meaningful direct synergy with perks
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Note: The below describes Trickster in his base kit (no add-ons), which is how I feel powers should originally be designed for.
His knickname "The Trickster" is a failure because it requires in-depth knowledge of his lore to understand, and nothing about his visual character nor ability reflects the trickster part of him. Names should be clear, easily understood identifiers that represent something. In Trickster's case that doesn't exist without investigation on the users part, which should be optional.
His power is bland because he was developed to be a machine-gun version of Huntress with no twists or turns to him. You simply aim and hold M2. In contrast, Deathslinger was a great example of a new ranged killer done right. Deathslinger has one shot, and if he hits, you can make a decision on how to proceed (get a hit or break the chain). Trickster doesn't have any additional decisions or features to his ranged attack. Ironically, the guy named "The Trickster" is the guy with the fewest tricks in his kit!
His power is also bland in that it has no direct synergy with perks. Like honestly, what directly works with them? The Third Seal now that secondary hits apply it? Okay, but you're probably not slugging with this character so why does that matter? Meanwhile Trapper can have basement builds, Clown can have chase builds, Hag and Pinhead have item builds, etc. But Trickster? All you can really do is run time-waste perks on him like gen regression and that's that for an already relatively dull killer.
Honestly, I wish they gave him bouncing blades by default and let add-ons adjust what happens when they hit a wall. Do they bounce with increased stats? Do they shatter? Do they explode into paint and give aura-reading?
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Which brings me to the last thing that really frustrates me with Trickster:
There's so much wasted potential for his character.
Honestly, just give him bouncing blades by default, let his add-ons change what wall interactions do and suddenly his name makes sense and gives players a more unique style of ranged game play never seen before! And if these changes make him too strong, nerf something. Instead, they took a character with a lot of potential and made his power and name both controversial and dull because of what I can only assume was laziness.
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I like Legion because their anniversary crowns are the least intrusive to other cosmetics of any killer.
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Trickster - why we even got a normal K-Pop Singer as a Killer 🤷🏻♀️
Also as a Twins Main who love Charlottes Design it makes me sad to see so many Twins hate :(
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Twins, easily.
They launched with an abysmal amount of bugs, they require playing like a scumbag for them to be playable, yet they're such an interesting concept executed poorly.
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Not sure why Wraith is mentioned. He’s one of the better designed killer.
Anyway I think it’s the Twins. So boring for both sides and encourages unhealthy gameplay.
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Trickster. The uncollected guy whose trademark was his sloppy kills is, for some reason, an expert in knife throwing - on top of being in one of the most scrutinized fields of media on the planet and somehow slipping away for kills which very few noticed were being slipped into his songs.
His lore, his power, and his gameplay are at odds.
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Reworked Freddy old Freddy was original and fun new Freddy is generic and bland wish the wouldn't have caved to the pressure to change him
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Trickster. At least Twins were a very unique and difficult to implement concept - one which wasn't implemented all that poorly, actually, but in practice ends up involving a lot of slugging and semi-camping by design. But at least their power concept was incredibly unique and complex. Trickster is just easier, weaker, less fun, less counterable and less complex Huntress mixed with Old Legion. Why did they decide to try Old Legion again? Who at BHVR thought this was a good idea? Not only that, but his power is almost a direct clone of Huntress in terms of how it operates on a base level. He's lazy, uninspired, weak and unfun.
It also doesn't help that BHVR have a very clear bias towards Trickster. He gets a skin every major update, he's gotten like 4 separate buff passes since he released, he's constantly advertised and hyped up by BHVR and he even got to skip the Tome queue.
It's very obvious that BHVR made Trickster, and by extension All-Kill, as a cash cow - Huntress is the most popular killer besides Trapper and she's free. BHVR's probably been kicking themselves for making her free, so Trickster's copy-pasted power, constant buffs in an attempt to force him to be strong and massive advertising campaign is an attempt to get those Huntress players to play a "new, better" Huntress that costs money. That, combined with the whole KPOP angle and Trickster's appearance just leaves the whole thing feeling like a very poor and rushed attempt at making money.
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The Twins by far. The whole chapter was a mess, no one likes playing against them, they are a camp/slugfest. people dont like playing as them, no one likes having their power being quite literally murdered out of play or having to play in a scummy way to win effectively.
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Legion
There is nothing you can do to make this killer balanced unless you massively overhaul their power, theyre either incredibly weak or incredibly strong.
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They've been hitting fouls for years now...but I'd have to say original Legion that countered every measure you could take to defend yourself, the moonwalk chase while you had no choice to bleed out, and the infinite mend bug that came out later.
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The Twins, and it's not even a contest. At the end of the day, a game is meant to be enjoyable. A killer that is notorious for being unfun to play as and against is a failure. BHVR somehow had the magic recipe for negative appeal for the Twins.
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Twins is so close to being ok if BHVR would just put in some elbow grease
Imma say Freddy because he is somehow more boring than Legion even though legion barely has a killer power
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Legion.
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Twins, trickster, and nemesis were the most disappointing killers ever released in my opinion.
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Twins.
I only faced them four times since they were released without considering the first two weeks in which everybody are trying them.
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Pinhead. They should never have started on the path they're now on.
But yeah, Trickster is a clusterfuck.
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Pig. So much potential for a 'Saw' themed killer. Blah execution.
Freddy. See above. At least his former incarnation was powerful and fun to use.
Pinhead. My second favorite horror film(s), and it feels like my toolkit is so niche that in many games, I barely get to use it.
Trickster. Not only does he feel like he's from a totally different franchise thematically, but...yup. That's going to be our 'Joker', everyone. Enjoy.
Deathslinger. As cool as it is conceptually, he was just never going to work mechanically in DbD and is now borderline unplayable. He needs a total rework.
Nemesis. Really...that's what you got from the character? 2 buggy zombies and a tentacle?
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It's always going to be Legion
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twins and trickster
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Trickster in terms of his power was pretty lame. The twins had the worst chapter, but Legion? Legion hardly has a power and are literally BHVR's dress up doll nothing else. Legion's addons still haven't even been updated to match their current "power".
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I see a lot of Trickster here, but the bulk of the complaints boil down to 'doesn't look like a killer in this genre' and 'uncreative gameplay.' The first is at least somewhat subjective, even if I see the point, and the second is true for a lot of killers.
The Twins, on the other hand, have all of those issues and more. They're terrible to play and they're terrible to play against, which is a sort of fascinating magic bullet because usually frustration in an asymmetrical game ends up being at one side's expense and the other's gain. But nope - the only creative way you could use their power, using Charlotte as a wall and using Victor to herd, is no longer possible, and it's hard to tell who's being punished more; Victor, who now gets stunned and yeeted no matter how well he aims, or the survivors, who spend half the game on the floor and are allowed to move exactly three steps away from the hook before Charlotte wakes up and slaps them back down.
Trickster has dedicated fans and is more than viable nowadays, so you see a lot of him. Even if there's people that love him because he's sleek and conventionally attractive, which isn't exactly genre ground... they still love him, and, well, that doesn't work in reverse. I've yet to meet anyone who thinks the Twins are a cool or scary kind of ugly; the consensus is just sad ugly. I don't think any killer was more dead on arrival than Twins. Ambitious idea, terrible execution. The crippling number of bugs they were released with is just the nail in their coffin.
My second pick would be Legion, mostly because it feels like BHVR didn't know what to do with them when the initial power turned out to be such a horrible idea and they gave up as soon as they'd managed to staunch the bleeding. They're pretty far down the totem pole in terms of killer design, but I'd still rate them over Twins.
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Legion. Wraith, Twins, and Trickster have fun powers. legion's power is kind of just disappointing.
also, why wasn't this a poll?
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Legion has a sizeable fanbase. Twins do not. A character meant to entertain people entertains practically no one. Legion might have sucked for survivors, but was at least entertaining for those that played them. That automatically makes Legion a more successful killer design than Twins, whom appeal to no one.
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I liked the Twins. The character had creativity that none of us thought of
Unless your talking about the bugs that come with the chapter. I don't remember them, but i heard they were a bother
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Definitely Wraith for me... hard for them to balance so they just buff him beyond repair.
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Trickster has to be their greatest failure. He doesn't fit in design wise, his power is just a weaker Huntress that somehow got nerfed, his name doesn't fit with his power or even lore and his lore, for a Kpop idol going mad, is really bland
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It seems like some people are only considering how well they currently function, rather than how well they could function if the devs actually spent some real effort figuring out their flaws and reworking them. All they seem interested in doing is changing some numbers around, as minimally as possible. I don't think any of them is a failure, but some are just not good...but could be fixed if the devs gave a #########.
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Twins by far
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Trickster.
For me he does not fit in this game. Looks too much like a survivor and also his power was not very well thought out IMO.
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Nemesis.
Unbelievably unfaithful to the source material for the most part and quite possibly the least fun Killer to go against, but still manages to feel weak and reliant on certain things such as Marvin's Blood and Save The Best For Last (which is ironically the opposite of what Nemesis does to his "obsessions" in the lore).
His zombies are incredibly stupid too. You should never be able to win a chase without doing anything whatsoever. Don't say that you're herding the Survivor into your zombies when the zombie goes one of two directions, while you go to the other. They create lose/lose situations in chase and are additionally incredibly frustrating when you're just on a chase.
His addons are pathetic as well, apart from a few cases, like the aforementioned Marvin's Blood.
They built all of the Resident Evil Chapter up for the 5th Anniversary Celebration, and yet we received a horrendous map which spent most of the chapter's release disabled, a Killer who suffers from the BHVR design syndrome of "good 1v1, terrible 1v4" and Perks as a whole that are too specific, undermined by better perks, or just generally not a strong effect.
Every aspect of the Resident Evil Chapter, apart from Eruption and Lethal Pursuer, is a complete and utter failure. Nemesis is the forefront of it.
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I mean they were not exactly gonna give Nemesis a rocket launcher or flame thrower.
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Legion. They've been nerfed a lot and their current power is useless.
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hmmm, gonna go with Legion.
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Trickster.
All the hullabaloo. All the cosplays. All the fanart. All the winking. All that crap.
Soon went awfully quiet.
Still laughing. 😂
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Twins, the best way to play them is the most boring and uninteractive one
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Legion on release was by far the worst addition ever made to this game.
currently it has to be Twins though.
amazing and creative concept, but incredibly horrible execution - and honestly, i doubt a couple of small buffs / changes are enough to fix that mess.
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Legion should have been a 4 man twins. But trickster is the worst imo. Doesn't fit and looks well out of place now that the kpop train has left.
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Until last patch, yeah he was perfect. Rn, it hurts my soul
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twins
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“The last buff made Wraith a weeee bit overpowered”
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Hag. Nothing about Hag is enjoyable. Nothing about Hag and her playstyle supports the game she is supposed to be played in, and her only redeeming quality is her perks.
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Twins by a long margin, they are designed around one of the worst aspects of this game (camping and slugging), doesnt matter how weak, annoying or unfun other Killers are, theyll never be as unfun as Twins for both ends.
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