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The answer to toxicity in end game chat
First, before anyone hits me with " so it's ok because you can avoid it?" no. Being called slurs, or being told to off yourself, or whatever else is not ok.
However, you have an answer to it.
Simple af. Turn off your game chat if you can't handle mean words from a stranger on the internet. It's real easy and only takes a few clicks.
If you don't want to turn your chat off, then you have no right to complain about it. You've got an easy fix to the issue, so by not taking that fix you are allowing the issue to exist.
Im not saying it's ok that people are toxic. It's not ok. Not in any sense. But if you can't handle it without breaking out in tears and coming to cry on the forums, just turn your chat off and don't ever worry about it again.
EDIT : I've realized how hypocritical my post is. I need to simply ignore the posts people make about toxicity in game, just the same as I'm telling people to ignore the toxicity in game.
Comments
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Victim-blaming at it's finest.
"It's bad, but it's your fault for letting it happen."
Punish the people who are toxic. That's it. There's your solution. If people want to hurt others, they will. Turning off chats doesn't stop people who legitimately want to harm others.
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I disagree
Fight fire with fire. Just respond with sarcasm and dry humour. If you win, mock them about it, make them even more angry, you'll feel better knowing you have them extra tilted. If you lost the game and they give you crap, just reply with classy responses, call them out for there attitude towards a player on a game.
Turning off comments can work to a degree but the antagonists ain't going to be punished or put off doing it. Stand toe to toe with these horrible beings.
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Even if this was a viable solution, and not victim blaming, which it isn't to the former and is to the latter, you're forgetting an obvious problem here.
What if I want to ######### engage in healthy chat post game? Not all players are toxic, I regularly talk with my opponents afterwards when there is something worse discussing. Stop telling us to turn off a feature that has a valid use on your crusade to be the ultimate victim blamer.
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I shouldn't have to turn my chat off to avoid getting bullied.
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I don't get after-game chat with Michael. He hasn't typed a word in 15 years...
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What he said.
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In addition to that, people are naturally social creatures. Even hard introverts have some social needs whether they admit it or not.
I don't understand why people should abandon their innate social needs and wants to make room for bad apples who abuse the system and torment others. That's such a flawed logic, unless a world of tormentors is the type of world you envision or have surrendered yourself to.
It's exactly this mindset that breeds self-centered views of the world, promotes victim-shaming as stated above, and gives toxic individuals the power to take control of the system that ignores instead of corrects them.
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I always tell toxic people to have a lovely day. So far they've always responded with "You too". I'm sure it doesn't always work. But sometimes it does.
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Y all are right that you shouldn't have to turn your chats off. Again as I had said, it's not ok that it happens. However this is not victim blaming. You have a literal solution to your problem, INSTANTLY. you can sit there and tell people how terrible it is to say what they do, but that's not gonna change anything. If you can not handle mean words, stop looking at them. Simple. The devs clearly aren't banning the ######### who say horrible things, so take the matter to your own hands and handle it instead of being children that cry about it to mommy and daddy BHVR.
Again, if you don't do what you can to fix your own problem, you have no right to complain about it. That would be like someone complaining about not having enough money to buy stuff, but they also spend all their money on useless garbage that they don't need. You are creating your own problem. Fix it, or hush, because no one really cares or wants to hear it.
Quit being such special little snowflakes
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you literally sound like one of those bullies right now...
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They have no right to call anybody slurs. People might want to have a nice chat at the end
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I'm not going to turn off chat when the majority of my interactions with people are friendly. Why would I let my rampant dislike for a vitriolic minority ruin the whole experience for me?
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Ok, so you know what I'm gonna tell ya to do? Leave the discussion. BAM. you're no longer being "bullied" and you fixed the issue yourself. That's literally what my post is saying to do. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out
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That's true. And I said that. However it's not gonna stop people from being horrible. So if you can't handle the bad, with the good, turn it off and quit complaining
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I don't see how this is victim blaming.
A) He's not wrong, there's a very simple "close the chat" solution and now it doesn't exist c:
B) Being told some mean things does not make you a victim. It makes you a target.
And yes, you're absolutely right. Turning off the chat doesn't stop anyone from doing it, and you do need to venture into the chat to be able to report it, but that really is the simplest solution. Just turn off the chat.
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yeah I am gonna leave this discussion because you're not worth my time.
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Ok, so don't? But also don't complain about toxicity. Accept the good with the bad, or stop complaining. It's that easy. Or just insta leave the toxic discussions. Another simple fix that requires 0 effort
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Heeeyyyyy look my post worked. One less dude complaining about a problem that he can fix in a second, on his own. +1 to me
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"Take the matter to your own hands and handle it instead of being children that cry about it to mommy and daddy BHVR."
If that isn't victim shaming, I don't know what is.
This is kind of what I meant by these views breeding self-centered views.
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I get what you're trying to say - no one is going to help you, so you might as well help yourself. Right?
That would work better in most personal settings that deal with personal problems, but toxicity in a game like this is a societal problem in a public setting that is capable of being regulated by the paid entity who should be monitoring it.
Everyone here is paying for a service, which should be a regulated and safe environment to play in their downtime.
The user agreement every player signs that behaviour is expected to uphold literally states:
"eHarass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another user that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated."
In that way, it is entirely justified for players, especially those who are being bullied, to reach out and "cry" to BHVR to uphold their user agreement and enforce the policies they have their users acknowledge and agree to prior to playing. Something I'd argue they kind of fail at with what I believe to be a lackluster discipline system and deserves an abundance of criticism for.
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fair. although it would be nice if everyone was civil. pipe dream, I guess.
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Alright, so instead of crying on the forums, why aren't you sueing BHVR for not upholding their end of their own agreement? Instead crying to other players about it? What are you going to accomplish with that?
And again, it's not victim blaming or shaming. It's pointing out that people are making themselves victims. They are being targeted, and instead of moving out the way, they are allowing themselves to be shot in the face with toxicity.
You said it yourself, no one is helping you, so do it yourself. BHVR only cares to a degree. Obviously not enough to actually do what they need to to stop it from happening. Quit the game to show BHVR your disdain with their handling of the situation or quit crying.
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Nnnnno? "You don't have a right to complain about screaming manchildren who can only communicate in 'ggez uninstall #########' and 'i hope your mom dies of cancer' because you like talking to other people" isn't a sound stance.
If you think supremely toxic people have the right to harass everyone because I do have the ability to mute them along with everyone else... well, by that logic I can complain about whatever I like, can't I? Because you aren't obligated to listen and you can just step out of this thread.
This just sounds like trying to excuse slurs and awful people as a fact of life. Which is true, but it also doesn't mean we can or should put up with it. BHVR agrees. Literally the thing you are advocating for turning the other cheek to is against DBD's rules. It's a bannable offense. And while nobody likes the chat filter, they didn't implement it for shits and giggles. Evidently they see this as a problem.
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Right now, you're the one crying
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Alright, I'll admit that you've got a very solid point. It's hypocritical for me to tell anyone to stop complaining.
However, if you believe BHVR isn't doing enough to handle the situation, why are continuing to support them by playing their game? That doesn't seem logical. If it's that big an issue, quit the game and play something else made by devs who truly react and ban the people who do such toxic things.
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Because I'm a student with limited finances who actually is willing to quit the game in temporary bursts when I get exhausted. Heck, I think I've quit the game about 4-5 already for 6-12 month periods at a time since 2016.
Don't get me wrong, if I somehow magically had the time and power to make BHVR take responsibility for all of its failings, I would absolutely do it. Heck, I'd probably do it just for fun more than a personal sense of justice at that point. Sadly, that's not the case.
I'd also re-evaluate what you think the definition of victim shaming is.
Victim shaming is when you blame the victim, even in part, for the negative actions that were directed to them by another party. You know, like saying they're a crying baby and it's their fault for not ignoring it when they get verbally abused.
To answer your question about what the purpose of "crying" is, it keeps awareness of the issue fresh in the developer's minds and (hopefully) one day will invoke a change.
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Now, yes, thinking it will invoke a change is a tad optimistic at this point.
Still, it's the only thing someone who is passionate about an issue can do and I for one won't be the one to shame or discourage that. That would only imply we're okay with the situation to the developers, and again, give the toxic more power to continue on. Which is not something I personally want to happen.
So to any criers reading this, cry on! Know that there's people out there who knows it's wrong, and supports you as you speak out about it.
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Care to explain how?
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Yes, it should be kept closed. Nothing is going to change with the chat. Making it optional seems a very easy thing to implement, but the developers don’t do it. And talking to trash talkers will only make you more engaged and addicted to the game itself, which is a bad thing. They all should remain unnoticed.
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You're basically telling people to stop complaining when you're doing EXACTLY that, complaining about people complaining.
You're saying people shouldn't feel upset by nasty words from a "stranger" when you have no right how to tell anyone how they should feel, nasty words are nasty words regardless of how you view them, and rightfully so they're going to affect people. Just because you can either handle it or it's never happened to you, doesn't mean others can handle it that well.
You're saying people should stop playing the game if it affects them, implying they asked for it in the first place. The problem isn't the game, it's the players.
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Thats a fair point. Honestly I guess I'm just so tired of seeing thread after thread of people talking about how toxic the game is when they also do nothing at all to actually handle the situations themselves.
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Why does that bother you? Are you admitting to people getting offended over toxicity? (Which is a natural and understandable response).
And what much can they do? All they can do is report them and close the chat, but it doesn't stop them from hurting the victim's feelings.
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Yeah, you're right. I had just admitted to another person pointing out my hypocrisy in making the lost at all.
However, I still truly feel that people who complain about something while also doing nothing at all to handle the situation on their own have no real right to complain about the issue. I get that it can be harder for some than others, but c'mon, at least TRY to avoid the thing causing you problems.
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Well as my original post said, simply turn off in game chat. Or if you're console, block messages from non friends. Do SOMETHING at least to try and lessen or avoid the problem instead of just complaining and expecting it to magically fix itself
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No worries, I get the frustration too.
It especially feels bad when you see players that are obviously getting very affected by it, but aren't in the right state of mind to learn how to take breaks, calm down, or engage in the preventative measure that you mentioned (turning off chat) when it becomes too overbearing.
So it's not like you were in the wrong either, just took it to a bit of an extreme I feel.
It was still good advice though, to turn off the chat when it becomes too hard for people.
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I still truly feel that people who complain about something while also doing nothing at all to handle the situation on their own have no real right to complain about the issue
People like @Pulsar have been very good at speaking out about this issue and although there are solutions, it won't stop toxic people from hurting others completely and that's the point people are trying to put across that no matter what you do, as long as the end-game chat exists, this will be an issue.
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The only issue with that is when people take it even farther. There's just nothing you can do to avoid that.
I've missed classes and tests because people DDoS'd me for so long.
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No one expects it to just magically fix itself, we hope for the developers to take action over it by voicing it repeatedly.
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Just follow your own suggestion and don't click on, or scroll past, those topics. You have that option.
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The chat is literally right above the button to leave the lobby. It's hard not to miss. It's only thing to say "Just close and ignore chat" and it's another when the chat is literally right in your way giving you the "I gotta push every button" desire of opening it again
They need to add a setting to disable chat entirely, so it becomes too much of a hassle to turn back on inbetween games, and let "Out of sight, out of mind" take it's course.
What's even more funny. League of Legends, which has less toxicity than Dead by Daylight, is removing their All chat all together to lessen toxicity in their game.
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Very true. My mistake and I've admitted to my own hypocrisy multiple times now. I had just read a post about toxicity and got on a kick about it, but I do need to practice what I preach and simply ignore those posts. I took it to a bit of an extreme and in the future will keep this entire thread in mind.
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I can't support spirit of victim-blaming in your post. But anyway, the day when I found out I could hide a chat was one of the best days of my dbd-life. This function allowed me to save many nerve cells.
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Oof, yeah, I remember you talking about that in another thread.
Jeeze, I can't even imagine how rough that would be - I'd be freakin' out if that were me lol
Seriously, sympathies.
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People are oversensitive these days what do you expect? I grew up in a era where nobody gave a ######### what you said to them , the old "sticks and stones might break my bones but words can never hurt me" line, but nowadays you could offend someone over the smallest thing and they'll make it so much bigger than what it is and act like they were traumatized.
Now that being said I've always stated the end game chat was the most toxic thing about this game and using hate speech or wishing harm on anyone is not ok at all but its up to the person on the receiving end to be the better person and either turn the chat off or kill them with kindness and leave them pissed they couldnt get a rise outta you, if you insult back you're no better than they are and don't have room to play victim.
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I'll never understand why PC games still have text chats. I feel like the negatives always outweigh the positive. Either no one talks at all, because they've moved on to another game, or it's mostly negative conversation.
Very rarely will I see a survivor who says GG even when they lose. Same for killer. They're always quick to be friendly when the game was in their favor or they simply won. Or the alternative to that is being extremely negative for absolutely no reason.
If there was a simple way to get people to be more positive then I'd love to hear it. Most of the time it's not possible because people are more comfortable when being anonymous. For now its just better to not even give them a voice. Otherwise they will continue to be reinforced by negative feedback which makes them feel some semblance of happiness.
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I appreciate that. Admittedly, validity of complaints is a really easy topic to get tangled up in.
Re:toxicity, I generally don't consider it that big of an issue? Not individually, at any rate. Whenever I encounter ######### in the game, I'm an ######### back to them, report, stew for like five minutes, and then move on with my life. Maybe reporting them will do something, maybe it won't, but even if it does, it's a societal problem and I accept that playing whack-a-mole with the ones that have already offended won't stop a dozen more of them from popping up the next day, or new accounts and IP spoofing, et cetera. Some people are just dicks and realistically, no action taken can ever prevent this problem from continuing to crop up.
However, it can be minimized. I'm extremely opposed to the notion that people using the anonymity of the internet to be deliberately malicious should ever be something we accept, or that the onus of handling such bad eggs belongs on the people they affect. Systemically it's a challenging problem to pin down, if not an impossible one - but casewise they should be punished, not ignored, and telling people they have the tools to deal with it themselves rather than appealing to authority is telling to ignore it. People shouldn't have to cut themselves off from all socialization in a game to avoid a minority of players that just want to spread misery and I refuse to accept that as a solution. Attitudes like the one you've expressed, in my opinion, end up enabling toxic players and giving them freer reign in a community, when we should be giving them as little grounds as possible to work with.
And many people complain on here because they want BHVR to pay attention to the issue. This is literally the hotline to the development team. They read these forums and it's a more constructive venue to voice issues with the game than anywhere else, including within the game itself.
You're not wrong that there are people who are legitimately better off muting the chat, and plenty of players have - and yes, you're in a healthier spot if you can learn to mentally distance yourself from the words of strangers on the internet. But there are many reasons not to do the first, and the second - emotions aren't as simple as just doing, and we're talking about people who are trying to push as many buttons as possible. It's inevitable that for some people, they're going to land something personal. It's not their fault when they do. I don't think it's wrong to ask BHVR to stamp out players who hardcore harass everyone any more than it is to ask them to get rid of cheaters - while there's an obvious mechanical argument to be made there, it is in other ways a very similar problem; it's all bad faith actors that are attempting to stop other people from enjoying the game, and they're breaking the rules to do it.
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Agree with the TC, if ur ass cant handle gg ez its not our fault
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It's not as simple as that but good job at your (failed) attempt at proving something.
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I was freaking out lol.
I explained it to my professor and they were very understanding. Turns out their son plays Siege and their household is all too familar with how much one disgruntled gamer can muck things up.
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No victim blaming here- OP is correct: turn off the chat. The amount of negativity post game far outweighs any positive feedback you may receive. It’s not worth your peace of mind. People are toxic in chat to trigger you, and no matter what your response is- you make them feel better by responding. If more player turned off their chat, toxic people will realize it’s been turned off and they will get even more infuriated. You win 3 times: you won the trial, you won by not receiving negative vibes, and you won by making them even more miserable. Turn it off people.
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