Skill Ceiling - who is on top in your opinion?
Personally I really think it's...
Hillbilly: Keep in mind I'm talking skill ceiling. Anyone can obviously play him and 4k bad survivors who run in a straight line, won't try to dodge when you've closed the distance and will be out in the open all the time instead of chaining loops/tiles.
If you want to have a chance to chainsaw decent survivors however you will have to master chainsaw-curving which is -in my opinion- mechanically the most demanding skill in Dead By Daylight.
It's easy to mess up a chainsaw curve as it requires optimal distance to the survivor, optimal positioning, optimal feathering of the chainsaw and most importantly unreal reaction times as the curve window is like 0.2(?)seconds.
On top of that a messed up curve basically resets the entire chase due to the long stun/cooldown animation resulting in huge distance to the survivor.
These may be a couple good curves of mine but hitting these on a consistent basis probably takes ages compared to any other killer:
I know many people will think of Nurse but personally I think she merely has a high skill floor.
It obviously takes a while to understand her basics but once you do get the hang of her there's no specific thing you have to learn power-wise in order to be able to catch strong survivors.
So what's your opinions?
Comments
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Blight has so many design issues/exploits player needs a lot of time to learn them all. Still exploits tho. Devs fix blight
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You're right but hillbily isn't worth the grind for that ceiling. It's having a high skill ceiling for nothing.
Blight is now the hardest killer to master in the game cause you have to control many techs and aspects of his gameplay, understand every object with bump logic/collision. understand how to use his red light to mindgame a rush in a hugtechable or flickable object but after you've learnt it you can actually be rewarded for it.
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Hug tech isn't an exploit. flicking with high dpi isn't an exploit.
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See? I haven't mention any of exploits and there is blight main who defends them already.
Devs please fix blight and all his "isn't an exploit" techs
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Overall billy has the highest skill ceiling but I’m going to be biased and say clown. His skill ceiling is deceptively high especially with the antidote
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I'm not a bight main but cmon when you say exploits what can you refer to other than these techs? LOL.
Also if the survivor knows that the killer is going to hug tech it can easily be counterable.
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Exploit is an exploit. There is no way all these "techs" were intended by devs. Players are just using killer power design overlook for own advantage and this should be fixed
Blight supposed to be run straight line hard to turn guy, not reverse rush into Quentin in the corner
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If you take away these stuff from him then he's not going to be that strong of a killer anymore. good survivors will counter him easily.
That's what you truly want?
In a survivor sided game having more killers nerfed? you want everyone to just play the boring "haha who cares about pallets and game design?" Nurse?
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Yes, i want all killers to be at same power level. Clown's power Compared to Blight is just laughable. There should never be a killer such powerful as blight or nurse. Fix them and then you can buff killers overall
You can tell let's buff all killers but it's much easier to nerf 2 than buff 23
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I think Hillbilly is on top of the list, with Blight being a close second and Nurse probebly coming in third place. Billys curving and flicking is difficult but very rewarding to master in my opinion and as you said the combination of angle, distance, feathering and input makes him very hart to master. Once you try this you will also note how limiting the overheat system can be as it is a deadline towards certain mind-games you can try.
Blight has so many tricks around map geometry thou even without all of those issues in consistency that he is close second. A good Blight can ping-pong around a loop while getting speed and hits some can only dream off. Like Hillbilly he has sensible controls and needs profune map knowledge.
Both Blight and Billy change very much depending on their add-ons making them even harder to master. Billy can run double engravings, Blight can run topspeed, Billy can become drift-Billy and so on. This adds even more issues towards masterings them because can you say you mastered something when you can not control their best add-ons?
Nurse is difficult as well but does not need that percise amount of map knowledge and percision that Billy and Blight need. She therefor lacks that one aspect that makes Blight and Billy the kings here.
Honorable mentions to Huntress because they are a curved projectile, Cenobite because Chains are quit hard to hit and curve and Trapper because you need good knowledge about setting them, collecting them and not wasting too much time. Trap placement also is a topic of its own.
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You're right but that's not gonna happen. also blight isn't that strong he still has to deal with pallets.
Nurse is the truly game breaking killer of this game.
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I've never played Clown and rarely ever see anyone play him so I'm genuinely curious now. What would be a skill ceiling scenario for Clown ?
So basically something that takes time, dedication, precision, good reaction times or whatever etc. to master ?
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blight is not so far from nurse if you know all his "techs"
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No.
He is very far. you know why?
All of his techs are counterable. if you suspect a blight is gonna tech a loop you just hold W or keep running to a direction of the loop he won't be able to reach.
You can pre drop pallets against blight and all of blight mains hate that since doing a tech around a dropped pallet is too hard.
Nurse is just straight forward broken. you can't do much against her cause you have nothing to defend yourself other than tricky movement that good nurses can easily read you're going to do.
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It’s mainly tile knowledge, survivor movement and bottle arc. You have to know how survivors move to make sure you hit them with as much gas as possible. You also need to know the most effective way to play each tile.
Also learning how to manipulate gas by throwing it up high to spread it out across larger areas.
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you are tweaked over a moon rush? arguably the most difficult thing to pull off in DBD... you'd be tweaked if a trapper or billy etc.. body blocked you into an insta-down, even though it's your own fault.
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Nerfing Blight just because Clown is not a good idea. Buffing weaker Killers is harder but the better option. You better not pull a dev move and be lazy. Also, nerfing Blight or Nurse will make it so there are no more strong Killers that can compete with SWF which is dumb
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ok Blight main
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so nerf swf then
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best type of main ;)
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I think its Trickster because with Billy you can still chase them while charging up your chainsaw.
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Not all SWF is competitive. Some are just Survivors playing with friends, yes, it's still a massive advantage but it doesn't need a nerf. SoloQ needs to be brought up to SWF level and then you can buff Killers by giving them some inbuilt slowdown. Maybe corrupt, maybe Ruin, maybe a secondary objective, maybe all 3 (not really), just something. Only then can you nerf the top killers without making Survivors win every game
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punish players for playing with friends? that's not a good way of attracting new comers and would also push players away.
The best thing for the devs to do and for the game is for them to buff solo up to or as close to SWF as possible and then buff killers to compensate....... NERF is never really a good route to take unless it's called for like the first iteration of mori's or old MoM.
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I'm confused. What do you mean by you can "chase while charging"?
Billy moves at 92% during the charge up phase so you do lose distance when charging/feathering the chainsaw.
Also I said skill ceiling.
Can you explain how Trickster has the highest skill ceiling?
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I know I'm not adding a lot to this discussion, but I just wanted to say damn son, thems are some sexy curves.
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Thank you. Appreciate the kind words! Been practicing curves for quite a while but still mess up regularly. I really wonder if curving becomes consistent at some point if you just put enough time into it.
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As far as having a really high ceiling, Blight, Nurse, and Hag.
I'd place Huntress and Billy at the same level. They have a very high ceiling but there is a limit to what they can do.
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In terms of precision mouse control I’d say Nurse.
But in terms of strategic thinking and nuance Hag is up there. If you’ve watched Michi’s Hag guide for instance there’s a ridiculous amount of nuance over trap placement and uses at top level Hag. Using the camera to jerk survivors off a path they want to take, knowing when to teleport or not and good timing, planning traps to chain together, having broad awareness of where survivors all the time to anticipate teleports, etc. You can do ok with Hag just teleporting and placing them kind of haphazardly but that high skill play Michi does is crazy!
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J-curve flicks. So Billy, Blight, and Oni.
I also think Pig and Hag have pretty high skill ceilings for using at peak efficiency, though both have soft and hard ceilings where a lot of players plateau.
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Ngl, I've been a billy main since 2017 ish, (a lot more blight now tbh) and I'm still not super consistent with them. Id say I do ok, but I'm nowhere near as good as someone like ohtofu. That being said, seeing him play billy and land curves practically any time he wants to makes me think that it can definitely become a very consistent thing if it's all you do for long enough
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But also with that, like other people have said, hitting that skill cap to be that consistent almost doesn't seem worth it when you can play someone like blight instead or even oni if you like his style (personally I can't stand it)
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Nurse.
Blight is 4.6m/s killer but if you're bad at blinks, you will just lose chases.
Billy has some potentials ngl, but hard to get good outcomes considering the amount of effort you put in to master.
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Probably Huntress and Blight
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I really want to say Spirit is up there but people will probably verbally assault me for no good reason.
I’ll say Blight is the hardest overall.
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I'm actually gonna say Blight, Huntress, Pyramid Head, Billy, and Nurse have the highest skill caps in that particular order. Blight has so much to learn and master, and while his skill floor is quite low, his skill cap is incredibly high. Flicks, hugging, all that jazz.
Huntress is simple: long range hatchets that take skill to land. Cross-map shots take very, VERY precise aim to land.
Pyramid Head requires very precise timing and aim, as well as prediction if you want to be able to hit through more walls, which is a large factor in his skill cap. While his skill floor is intermediate (only using his power at windows and pallets to cheese POTD hits and M1s), his skill cap is higher than people give credit for.
Billy is like Blight. I would put him higher than Huntress if his skill cap wasn't limited by overheat. He has flicks, incredible mindgame potential, etc. But overheat is what limits all of that, making his power more risky to use.
And finally, Nurse. I don't think I need to explain this one.
Post edited by glitchboi on2 -
This is actually a really interesting take because Clown's skill cap is WAY higher than people give credit for, in fact I'd argue his skill cap is one of the highest in the game. He ain't a strategic killer for nothing. You gotta predict the survivor's movements and place your bottles as well as aim them correctly.
While his skill floor is quite low, maybe one of the lowest, his skill cap is pretty damn high if you use the antidote. Spreading your gas and throwing the gas above walls requires knowing the arc of the throw.
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Massive advantage - doesn't need a nerf.
k
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sorry i don't think blight mains know what's better for the game
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Someone who thinks SWF should be nerfed, when it's the largest avenue for new recruits, definitely doesn't know what's good for the game.
Someone who thinks nerfs for the strong are better than buffs for the weak - similar story, but with the additional proof of knowing nothing about healthy game design.
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I agree it's definitely Billy. However, I'm still not sure it's worth pushing for that kind of effort given the in-game reward. I do it only because curving is fun.
I find Blight to be a lot overhyped in terms of skill requirements. Same as Huntress. Of course, they have a skill cap above more straightforward powers. But nothing that requires master's degree in quantum physics, as the mains seem to believe.
On the subject of the Blight 'techs', I don't think they're difficult at all. It's more a matter of knowing they exist.
It's just imho, of course.
I've got a lot of respect for Michi. The guide has interesting info about the trigger mechanics of the traps. However, other than that, there's a lot of overthinking and overanalyzing. Hag ain't that deep, even at tournament level.
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It is as console players cannot do it and someone with a budget mouse cannot do it aswell.
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DbD's skill ceilling is very, very low. You don't need much to learn each killer. Killer's are very limited in theirs designs and capacity and how well you do with a killer is always dependant on external factors to Yourself and how well you can do with that killer. Map, Map RNG, Caliber of players you face, Builds, etc,etc. There's no reliable way to say something takes alot of skill or not.
"Nurse takes skill" Nurse is a very mechanically simple killer. You point and TP and she doesn't require manny different keys to be played. So all the "skill" in playing Nurse is based on making the right predictions. Predictions aren't a guarantee, you'll innevitably miss Blinks so are you less skilled when you miss and more skilled when you don't miss a Blink? How is a prediction a skill? Taking more or less time to "Master" a killer isn't a measure of skill either, different people lçearn different things at different time rates.
I'll argue Pyramid Head takes more skill (how much more isn't the question, it's still DbD so the bar is still low) in playing, managing his full potential requires deep map knowledge, in game awareness, prediction and loop manipulation, to make things go your way on top of dealing with all the external factors that don't involve my input or capacity to affect the game.
When people talk Skill showcase, i expect knowledge, coordination and execution demands on high level. DbD isn't high level execution or coordination or knowledge. If you people want to see coordination and execution go watch somebody Skilled play DMC for example. There you will see what is coordination, execution and knowledge in play.
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If you've read why I said that, you wouldn't have answered like that. Ignorance is bliss
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If you're talking about Hug Techs, that just wrong. Flicks you can't do but you don't necessarily need them unless you want to become a to tier Blight main
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Probably a Survivor Main
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I think the problem with Hillbilly is that overheat and the map reworks limit his skill ceilling A LOT. You can't now use your chainsaw creatively because otherwise you risk overheating, so you'll want to use it on the most efficient way possible. Also every map now is filled with random objects that stop his chainsaw (random branch at MacMillian I'm looking at you). So imo Blight gets the top on this, with Nurse right under.
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Yeah of course. You mentioned that Billy players should learn how to curve their sprints and how it adds to the complexity for Billy players. I was saying that you could instead chase a survivor while charging up your sprint, thus reducing the need to curve your chainsaw at all.
I think 92% move speed isn't slow enough to lose a lot of distance on a survivor moving at normal speeds. 2.5s charge time doesnt leave much room to run away. If I'm reading that right they either lose no distance at all or very little.
Either way the distance is so subtle that I myself will often chase survivors just to get that sweet chainsaw down without having to guess where I'll end up by the end of it. In other words theres no reason to add complexity to something that's already fairly easy to pull off.
I think Hillbilly respectfully deserves his easy rating. I didnt find him very challenging to play at all. Trickster on the other hand... you see all of the complaints about him. Most people dont enjoy playing him. He doesnt deserve his easy rating in my opinion. Much higher skill tier than Billy.
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killer main actually. i just think blight mains who think all their exploits are fine can't judge adequately
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But they're not exploits. Blight has been changed a numerous of times yet they haven't been removed which means the devs don't want to remove them
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Wait... People never complained about Trickster being hard to play power wise. People complain about Trickster because he doesn't excel at anything at base.
I have yet to see a person say they can't play Trickster because his power is too hard to use mechanically.
Meanwhile many people including long term streamers agree that Billy is mechanically one of the most demanding characters in the game so not sure if you're just trying to troll or not at this point.
The in-game ratings don't even mean anything regarding the skill ceiling, too. Freddy is rated as hard even though the community has considered him braindead-easy. Otz used to say "even a monkey could play Freddy".
Also you have yet to explain Trickster's skill ceiling because all he can objectively do is spam throwing knives while looking at the survivors. That does require some precision but other than that there's nothing to learn.
What can a 1000 hour Trickster do that a 10 hour Trickster can not?
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