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The “fair” killer play style is dead
The ol’ hit and run, hook trading, fair game, GG’s all round play style is just not possible anymore, not with the sorry state that killer games are in
gens are flying faster than the speed of light, heals are lightning fast and infinite with boons, scratch marks and none existent
it’s just not viable anymore to switch targets and “play fair”
with each update tunnelling and camping become more and more necessary just to confirm at least one kill before the final generator pops, without it most killers just can’t apply enough pressure on teams, with the exception of certain killers. Blight, Nurse ect
do the devs honestly believe this is fair? Or fun for killers in that regard. I don’t want to tunnel and camp, but if I’m playing an M1 killer against toolbox’s, Prove Thyself, Brand New Part’s, Boons and other meta perks then I don’t really have a choice do I?
Comments
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The title is correct.
It is not feasible to try to 3 hook everyone without tunneling when the players are of equal skill.
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Rework gens to rework camping and tunneling and improve this game drastically
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Its not gen speed, it's the fact the escape process is still one and only one task.
If escaping required multiple phases with tasks in various positions changing based on phase state/survivors remaining the gen problem would be fixed.
But since the game is static it ends quickly.
Dbd really does a new game mode.
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Should never have been alive. It's a competitive game. I see nothing wrong with doing whatever the game allows you to do to win. The only unnecessary and immature stuff is the crap people type to each other after the game ends.
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It would still be better to rework, their current interactions are quite boring on both sides and it’d be better to make them more enjoyable
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Gen speeds are fine but Gen regression on the other hand is a joke
It would be nice to get the Devs to actually design the maps themselves rather then let A.I handle it
Could throw in spawn points as well as Gen locations and Totem placements as random... I know that they did design the walls and such but the A.I handles everything else
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I feel like certain killers will always be at a disadvantage with gen speeds and not always get that pressure down.
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And when someone ask the devs about gen regression, they say they don't have any plans to do it because gen regression is already good with ruin...
The problem is, this makes most killers have to rely on ruin to have a chance against good survivors. Kicking a gen without the proper perks is nearly worthless.
12 -
I would never consider a dead hard user on my skill level. So players worse then me ruin the fun for everyone and make sure it's Bubba Hours.
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I hope this is sarcasm and/or being facetious.
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If the killer side is in such a horrible state you basically have to go in with the intent to lose and be a babysitter trying to give the survivors a good time then I think I'd rather just play a different game made by good developers?
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I think they've done a pretty good job.
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I agree that kicking gens is worthless... Plus Ruin is like gone within the first couple minutes anyway...they have the stats to prove it to...
Just another reason the Killer "meta" is Ruin and Pop... oh well
Plus if Ruin regression is so good then why leave base regression the same... why not give that to us as base
Sorry lost myself there for a moment
6 -
No it's not sarcasm. If you use dead hard you suck at the game and need your little hand holdy perk. Same with people who run Ruin Undying on killers like Blight and Nurse
9 -
Then, quite frankly, you need a reality check.
"If you use X perk you suck."
Like, dude, that's just whining.
8 -
Ruin Undying is horrible on Nurse though. Shes terrible at forcing people off gens. She's great at chasing. Ruin Undying does next to nothing on nurse. He slowdown is based on pressure. Not on gen control.
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Nurse is good at driving people off Gens by way of Proxy. She downs quickly, meaning they either commit or let Gen regress and go save the slug. So she gets value either way.
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THATS LITERALLY YOU DO ON THIS FORUM 24/7
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I do forum 23/12 yes
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MMR and recent changes destroy what was left of sportsmanship in this game. It's a casual game at its core, not competitive due to total lack of balance. Uet, the devs have no foresight and make changes that push it to being absolutely cutthroat.
I don't know how they come back from this without a total overhaul.
1 -
Looks like we're entering the age of the "fair" survivor play style.
Odds they'll take up the mantle?
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No chance lol, somehow I don’t see survivors volunteering to stay back to give the killer one kill similar to how killers would give the last person hatch, instead you’ll be treated to a 4 man teabag and flashlight click followed by a message saying “EZ baby killer”
12 -
The attempts to coddle poorly performing casuals continues to negatively push the game in an unfavorable direction for the more experienced.
When concerns about skilled performance are brought to attention the devs continuously dismiss them with claims that the % of players isn't high enough. Instead of a balanced experience top to bottom, we have a target group that rejects players in game experience when they perform outside the parameters.
We are currently at a point where minimal effort strategies as killer are the best way to ensure a measure of success. When there is little to no leisure time shortcuts will continue to be the optimal choice.
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I don't know where this idea came from that a game must be balanced and fair to be competitive.
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Gen speeds are an issue as well. Have you ever noticed how many nowdays use prove thyself? What about items like brand new parts? Some perks are now overbuffed that gives you your toolbox back. 2 people doing the same gen and some prove thyself to the mix and boom its done in no time.
Map sizes are a bigger issue i agree, but i wouldnt say the gens are problem free.
I still try to play fair but i have started to tunnel more..i hate it but if i dont all i see is survivors tea bagging me at the exit gates calling me noob and learn to play without it.
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Define "fair" when devs encourage camp and tunnel :)
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To be fair, they would probably teabag you regardless. Survivors just love to do it, even in the face of defeat. Nothing can stop those twerking lunatics.
4 -
I still play for hooks. If can 3 hook everyone and win that way, awesome. If I 2 hook them and they all escape I'm still cool with that too since my MMR won't increase.
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OP so killers don't farm as much with you now?
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Welcome to my play style and also the reason why I only play this game once or twice a month aka when i am in the mood.
Try to get 8 hooks and after that only babysit. This made my MMR go down to the bottom were even a hint of pressure will let the survivor lose their heads and trying to not kill them is sometimes even hard.
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Fun fact, i made a thread asking for anyone that experienced that and on the same day it happened to me but since then, never.
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Is it really a competitive game, though? People try to make it that way, but at the end of the day it's an asymmetrical 4v1 with sketchy (at best) matchmaking and totally subjective win conditions. It doesn't really lend itself at all to "test of skill" competition.
But even wit that being the case, I generally agree with you. If you buy the game, outside of cheating, you should be able to play whatever way floats your boat, and escaping or killing most of the survivors definitely feels better than getting dominated.
That said, being too focused on your own fun to the exclusion of all other factors isn't good for the health of the game. If people hare having a crappy time and leave the game, that's not good for anyone long term. I definitely want to "win", but if I do so by consistently making someone else's experience miserable, I don't feel great about that.
To that end, I try not to tunnel/camp unless the game situation demands it. I don't think the hit and run, 12 hook standard is fair or realistic to hold people to, but I also know what it feels like to spend 10-15 minutes in lobby and get tunneled/camped right out of the game before you have a chance to really play. It sucks.
All that said, no one is entitled to anyone else playing the game the way they feel they should. But there is a lot of grey area between "you have to play by the unwritten rules" and "f u, I'll do whatever I have to do to win".
It would be nice if the game doesn't force you to play like an ahole, though.
3 -
It is?
Maybe I missed the memo while I was stacking my BBQ.
The question is if it ever has been an option for people who played to win at all, which is something I highly doubt. Camping and tunneling was always the most efficient strategy out there especialy if you combind it with a 3-gen. Good old Bubba standing in the middle of good defendable 3-gen with a survivor proxy camped in the middle is a valid idea of how to "win" your games.
The only difference is that they now told us that kills and escapes are all that matters to MMR and this encouraged more people who wanted to play "high MMR" to embrace camping, tunneling and other tactics like this. Because this is what "high MMR" is supposed to feel like: Two highly competitive sides bashing each others skulls in...
However I do not think that the other playstyle is dead. I play like this, I do not camp, I do not tunnel and I rarely Slug when I expect a DS or a flashy save. For the most part I play to stack my BBQ and juggle hooks fairy in order to gain a good score at the end.
This has cost me quit a lot of matches. However after a while it seems like my MMR decayed enough to match me against survivor who are fitting opponents for this playstyle. And this is for me a good thing: Now I get fair survivors more often than with the old system.
The old system would constantly increase my rank because I made lots of points my priority. This had me facing survivors with a highly competitive mindset more often and resulted in less fun for me. Of course they were better and gens flew by. But I never dropped down enough to get a good amount of fair and fun matches.
As such the new MMR system works for me: I get ~2 kills per match, sometimes I get no kills but 8 hooks, sometimes I get the same number with 2 kills and so on. Works for me.
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Sucks to be you, I'm a Twins main and you bet your ass games are still like shooting fish in a barrel. Perhaps that speaks for itself, you gotta be in 2 places at once to be OP ;)
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Welcome to the Dark Side. It's more fun here.
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Game won't survive with the current state of the game.
I cannot play killer anymore, i mean, 1 or 2 games in a row are already too many as it's a sweat fest and there is nothing fun about it as i'm forced to camp/tunnel, quite boring braindead gameplay honestly.
Once a new asymmetrical game is out, i bet the community will just jump out of this sinking ship.
2 -
I play roughly the same, only that i actively avoid killing.
But this might become a problem in the future. If all killer played like us then at some point the omajority of survivor will escape and therefore increase their MMR but killer at the same time los theirs. This leads to matchmaking imbalances, might bring the devs to widen the matchmaking parameters again and then for everyone playing against each other once again, just like with the rank matchmaking shortly before SBMMR was activated and everyone was crying about.
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This was a thing before boons. Lets not use that as an excuse. :)
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The devs mentioned they want to do something about camping so chances are the kill rates will drop further which will allow them to possibly add something to the game that slows gen progression down without messing up the total balance.
Right now they can't add a mandatory second objective for survivors because certain killers would just camp at 5 gens and then win at all times with no realistic counterplay.
But once they get rid of camping the devs could do something for the health of killer gameplay.
3 -
I swear I've seen this statement pop up with every singe patch.
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Agreed. If they somehow do something about tunneling and camping, THEN they could work on slowing the game down a bit more. I'd be fine with this.
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Let`s enjoy it while it lasts.
However I doubt that many people will adapt their playstyle because most people just see kills as a win and press for that. It takes some effort to change your mindset away from "get the kill" to another goal when you get told that kills = more MMR.
Also the Killer specific MMR is a pretty good thing. I can finaly learn curving and flicking with Billy playing chainsaw only.
MMR is able to show the fundamental flaws of the game. This should come in at no suprice because now competitive players meet competitive players more often, both sides hellbend on winning and using any means necessary.
BHVR was hestitating to change something like genspeed, hook progression and other things because they had no clear indicator about how that would affect their game. With MMR they can now distinguish between the problem of worse players, avarage players and skilled players which is overall a good thing. Theoretivaly they are now able to make changes to improve the game for the targeted audience.
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Because you can't have real competition without balance. If one side is favored over another, where is the competition. It is literally the core requirement.
Thus why there are no real tournaments for DBD. When a few streamers do get together, they put limits on what number of perks or activities can occur. Why? Total lack of balance.
You can call this a PvP-type game, but not a competitive game. At its core, DBD was released as a party-casual game. The problems lately are because the devs are trying to force it into a competitive game, but can't figure out balance.
Imagine trying to hold a Fortnite, CoD or Smash Brothers tournament, but one side gets extra people with more powerful weapons and abilities. How well will that work?
3 -
Ye but knowing BHVR, it will take like 2 years to have some real balance fixes. The game will die before they bring enough changes to improve the quality of life.
I mean, DbD has been free of competition for years, not mentioning that multiplayer games released for 3 years are globally terrible but it's soon over.
How can some players continue to play killer on a regular basis is unbelievable. I cannot play more than 2 or 3 games without being bored to death. Having to sweat the whole game to constate that the only viable way to win is to camp and tunnel is just a bad feeling.
Killer/survivors interaction doesn't require skill or mind-game anymore. It's just super easy as a survivor, impossible as a killer.
But well, no word from BHVR, they might be proud of their product...
1 -
I know what you feel like. Had many games end in 3-4 minutes recently.
The only reason I currently keep playing killer is I'm working towards my own little goals like mastering Billy curving or making a funny build work.
If I merely played matches with the goal to 4k I'd have gone crazy by now.
With all the high-hour survivor mains who never fall for mindgames and know every killer loop and power weakness you might as well just give up straight away (sometimes) unless you bring the absolute strongest slowdown stuff on the strongest killers which gets boring to use quickly as well.
1 -
Players get better. Mechanics stay archaic.
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Exactly. Moreover, survivors' gameplay is really modern, actions are fast, movements and camera movements are great and feels like a 2021 games however, the killer gameplay is horrible, slow, every action has a "vector" movement... It's horrible and feels like a PS1 game.
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Aren't the devs mainly streaming as survivors? would suck if they couldn't win at their own game, so rather buff the survivors more so they can stream themself winning :)
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"It's a competitive game" holy crap I laughed so hard.
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It's never been a thing. That whole narrative always came with the fine print. Playing 'fair' was fine as long as one was winning. The second a player lost a tiny bit if momentum and I bet you they'd facecamp their first-born child if that meant snatching the victory back.
Mmr just offered itself as a convenient scapegoat to justify losing the mask.
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