Boil Over Change

SasukeKun

Can we please buff this to maybe idk something that sounds like this..

Boil Over: Your will to survive is strong and true that gives you energy like a stallion, your struggle effects on the Killer are increased by *50/75/100%.
You obscure The Killer's ability to use hooks that are within 6/8/14 meters when picking up a survivor.

Update: This gives a nice battle to Iron grasp and gives the survivor a good chance to use DS when not the obsession and also brings more viability to Kate's Loadout. (anything would help Kate's Loadout)

My_Dude

Naw it's fine as is.

Last thing survivors -need- is something to help them avoid hooking after they have been caught.

SmokePotion

Boil over is weird. if the killer strafes as he walks, the wiggling effect a survivor gives is minimal. And since movement on pc is done by WASD, killers tend to use strafing as they move, so the effect doesn't do much.

On console where you are using twin stick, this perk is noticably stronger. Boilover has 100% stopped me in my tracks for about a second, to 1.5 seconds as a killer on console.

The hiding the hook part though...Kinda useless. If the hook is close, i know where it is, and if it isn't, I can see it's aura till its close, and by then i know all the info I need.

So i don't think boil over needs buffed. i think they need to look at movement controls. As the perk seems to work as intended on consoles.

edit: On second thought, this could also be working better on console because if you go HAM on that stick, that bar will fill pretty fast, and this "extra pork" might be what's giving the perk it's umph?

Rebel_Raven

So everyone runs it, and killers never get to hook survivors ever again?

Iron grasp running killers aren't likely to be prominent now that the event is over, and any hook will do. 

SasukeKun

@Rebel_Raven said:
So everyone runs it, and killers never get to hook survivors ever again?

Iron grasp running killers aren't likely to be prominent now that the event is over, and any hook will do. 

I'll go back to Urban Evasion's pre buff everyone thought it was gonna be OP but it wasn't made it balanced. Maybe they should try it in the PTB

Dreamnomad

I don't think that the struggle effect should be increased. There is a reason that it is 75% at rank 3. Because that is the same amount as Iron Grasp is for killers. They effectively counter each other. I would however be fine with increasing the range that the hooks auras can't be seen. I think that would be fair. This thread should be in balance feedback though.

Rebel_Raven

SasukeKun said:

@Rebel_Raven said:
So everyone runs it, and killers never get to hook survivors ever again?

Iron grasp running killers aren't likely to be prominent now that the event is over, and any hook will do. 

I'll go back to Urban Evasion's pre buff everyone thought it was gonna be OP but it wasn't made it balanced. Maybe they should try it in the PTB

Urban Evasion doesn't directly impact the main source of score for killers.

The struggle mechanism is there to prevent basement plays, and killers getting to event hooks across the map from the ######### survivor that kitted the killer away.

By no means is it supposed to guarentee an escape. 

Blueberry

This is a perk that if it was buffed it would be highly abused and become a nightmare. It is not something we want to buff lightly.

DarkWo1f997

Once again, it’s how much higher of a percentage of the match you are likely to spend dangling from a hook or being inactive, that’s the issue. If they found a way to make the game constantly engaging and not rendering controls minuet, there wouldn’t be a problem. 

You just want to get away from the killer more because you don’t get to spend enough time doing the fun stuff as survivor and want to attempt it again.  

SasukeKun

@Blueberry said:
This is a perk that if it was buffed it would be highly abused and become a nightmare. It is not something we want to buff lightly.

i say give it a chance, think about how all the ways this isn't OP

SasukeKun

@Dreamnomad said:
I don't think that the struggle effect should be increased. There is a reason that it is 75% at rank 3. Because that is the same amount as Iron Grasp is for killers. They effectively counter each other. I would however be fine with increasing the range that the hooks auras can't be seen. I think that would be fair. This thread should be in balance feedback though.

Yes but you would see the effect and strength of the perk if it was increased. It's barely noticeable how it is now and if you have EYES the aura part for the hooks isn't very useful

Khalednazari

SasukeKun said:

You obscure The Killer's ability to use hooks that are within 6/8/14 meters when picking up a survivor.

I like this idea, but it shouldn't affect the basement hooks. 

DarkWo1f997

Khalednazari said:

SasukeKun said:

You obscure The Killer's ability to use hooks that are within 6/8/14 meters when picking up a survivor.

I like this idea, but it shouldn't affect the basement hooks. 

Of course you would like one sided changes. 

Khalednazari

DarkWo1f997 said:

Of course you would like one sided changes. 

I love your reaction more than the idea itself. So that's a bonus. 

DarkWo1f997

Khalednazari said:

DarkWo1f997 said:

Of course you would like one sided changes. 

I love your reaction more than the idea itself. So that's a bonus. 

Great. When you want to contribute to the game’s development in VALID ways, feel free. 

Khalednazari

DarkWo1f997 said:

Great. When you want to contribute to the game’s development in VALID ways, feel free. 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'VALID ways', but I do that on a daily basis by playing the game, then list out the bugs, participate in feedbacks and reviews, and also put across my views and suggestions. In the end, I try my best to keep it positive and toxicity-free.  

CrtKazz

The only thing that would be a QOL change would be widening the aura blocking range or allow open handed to be affected by it. You don’t want to make iron grasp a requirement perk for killers and you should never think you are for sure getting off the killers shoulder when using it. It’s meant to compliment aggro builds and other perks ie ds, unbreakabld, sabateur. It’s a super fun perk but could push the gameplay in a negative direction if tweaked too much.

Ihatelife

It will be still useless

Mister_xD

only when you buff iron grasps stats to 50/75/100% decreased struggle effects too.
iron grasp is ment to be the direct counterplay to boil over, so i dont see why the survivors perk should be superious to its direct counter from the killer side.
if one of these two perks has to be stronger, it should be the killers perk, not the survivors.

HellDescent

Mash harder next time..

Salty_Pearl

I think it should either increase struggling speeds by 5/10/15% or increase the struggling effects to 75%/100%/125%. It really doesn't "move" killers that much.

SasukeKun

@CrtKazz said:
The only thing that would be a QOL change would be widening the aura blocking range or allow open handed to be affected by it. You don’t want to make iron grasp a requirement perk for killers and you should never think you are for sure getting off the killers shoulder when using it. It’s meant to compliment aggro builds and other perks ie ds, unbreakabld, sabateur. It’s a super fun perk but could push the gameplay in a negative direction if tweaked too much.

@Salty_Pearl said:
I think it should either increase struggling speeds by 5/10/15% or increase the struggling effects to 75%/100%/125%. It really doesn't "move" killers that much.

1. Wouldn't you want stuff to make taking Open Handed a better option?
2. That is why i said to put it up to *100% cuz it does ######### at 75%, and the aura blockage isn't fair because it's only map dependent and if you have EYESs it's laughable

Boss

Sounds like you don't want a Killer Perk to be able to defeat a Survivor Perk.

Iron Grasp is already #########, it's main benefit can be done anyway by holding A or D.
And those 2.5 extra seconds are barely ever useful.
Now it's good for at least 1 thing and you wanna throw that away.

Boil Over, whenever i encounter it, is actually mildly annoying.
You can still counter it, partially, using A & D, but the immediate push to the left or right the Survivor makes with Boil Over can still screw you over.

Entità

I'd rework Boil Over like this:

BOIL OVER: "You are a battler and do everything to escape a foe's grasp.

Your struggling speed is increased by 12/24/36%".

mike2835

I was watching old games of dbd and it looked like boil over was in the game originally killers getting thrown left and right. But now it's a perk lol. It should have been a wiggle faster perk 

SasukeKun

@mike2835 said:
I was watching old games of dbd and it looked like boil over was in the game originally killers getting thrown left and right. But now it's a perk lol. It should have been a wiggle faster perk 

When i first saw it i thought it made the wiggle bar go by 75% faster

MegaWaffle

@SmokePotion said:
Boil over is weird. if the killer strafes as he walks, the wiggling effect a survivor gives is minimal. And since movement on pc is done by WASD, killers tend to use strafing as they move, so the effect doesn't do much.

On console where you are using twin stick, this perk is noticably stronger. Boilover has 100% stopped me in my tracks for about a second, to 1.5 seconds as a killer on console.

The hiding the hook part though...Kinda useless. If the hook is close, i know where it is, and if it isn't, I can see it's aura till its close, and by then i know all the info I need.

So i don't think boil over needs buffed. i think they need to look at movement controls. As the perk seems to work as intended on consoles.

edit: On second thought, this could also be working better on console because if you go HAM on that stick, that bar will fill pretty fast, and this "extra pork" might be what's giving the perk it's umph?

On console if you just walk at an angle you can ignore a lot of the swaying back and forth. Not every perk needs to be "buffed" or top tier. Sometimes its good to have middle of the road and gimmick perks too.

SasukeKun

@MegaWaffle said:

@SmokePotion said:
Boil over is weird. if the killer strafes as he walks, the wiggling effect a survivor gives is minimal. And since movement on pc is done by WASD, killers tend to use strafing as they move, so the effect doesn't do much.

On console where you are using twin stick, this perk is noticably stronger. Boilover has 100% stopped me in my tracks for about a second, to 1.5 seconds as a killer on console.

The hiding the hook part though...Kinda useless. If the hook is close, i know where it is, and if it isn't, I can see it's aura till its close, and by then i know all the info I need.

So i don't think boil over needs buffed. i think they need to look at movement controls. As the perk seems to work as intended on consoles.

edit: On second thought, this could also be working better on console because if you go HAM on that stick, that bar will fill pretty fast, and this "extra pork" might be what's giving the perk it's umph?

On console if you just walk at an angle you can ignore a lot of the swaying back and forth. Not every perk needs to be "buffed" or top tier. Sometimes its good to have middle of the road and gimmick perks too.

That's sugar coating Useless

MegaWaffle

@SasukeKun
?

SmokePotion

@MegaWaffle said:

@SmokePotion said:
Boil over is weird. if the killer strafes as he walks, the wiggling effect a survivor gives is minimal. And since movement on pc is done by WASD, killers tend to use strafing as they move, so the effect doesn't do much.

On console where you are using twin stick, this perk is noticably stronger. Boilover has 100% stopped me in my tracks for about a second, to 1.5 seconds as a killer on console.

The hiding the hook part though...Kinda useless. If the hook is close, i know where it is, and if it isn't, I can see it's aura till its close, and by then i know all the info I need.

So i don't think boil over needs buffed. i think they need to look at movement controls. As the perk seems to work as intended on consoles.

edit: On second thought, this could also be working better on console because if you go HAM on that stick, that bar will fill pretty fast, and this "extra pork" might be what's giving the perk it's umph?

On console if you just walk at an angle you can ignore a lot of the swaying back and forth. Not every perk needs to be "buffed" or top tier. Sometimes its good to have middle of the road and gimmick perks too.

Yes, strafing does take a lot of the oomf out of it, but i do notice that it's easier for people to make use of the perk on console, so I'm thinking it's people going ham on that stick

SasukeKun

@MegaWaffle said:
@SasukeKun
?

?

Eight

Boil Over falls into the occasionally useful category of perks. Once in a blue moon, it'll pay off. If you buff all of those perks, survivors would be unstoppable.

I've escaped with it a couple of times, but mostly it ends up being useful when you have teammates who love to body block.

SasukeKun

@Eight said:
Boil Over falls into the occasionally useful category of perks. Once in a blue moon, it'll pay off. If you buff all of those perks, survivors would be unstoppable.

I've escaped with it a couple of times, but mostly it ends up being useful when you have teammates who love to body block.

Yeah but it would be more attractive if it got some kind of useful change

Eight

@SasukeKun said:
Yeah but it would be more attractive if it got some kind of useful change

Totally agree, but the devs can't buff all of these kinds of perks. Or rather, they could, but then they'd have to nerf some other perks and buff killers etc. So the whole thing becomes much more complicated.

I'm pretty convinced that some perks aren't meant to be used (by the average, solo-queuing survivor) once you hit the point where you're collecting teachables etc. But sometimes they become useful again later in odd builds.

E.g. Unbreakable on its own, I find useless. Unbreakable + Tenacity, I've seen work. Never tried it myself though.

Can't think of any use for Boil Over other than getting up the nose of killers during the Blight. Except for those running Iron Grasp and Agitation.

SasukeKun

@Eight said:

@SasukeKun said:
Yeah but it would be more attractive if it got some kind of useful change

Totally agree, but the devs can't buff all of these kinds of perks. Or rather, they could, but then they'd have to nerf some other perks and buff killers etc. So the whole thing becomes much more complicated.

I'm pretty convinced that some perks aren't meant to be used (by the average, solo-queuing survivor) once you hit the point where you're collecting teachables etc. But sometimes they become useful again later in odd builds.

E.g. Unbreakable on its own, I find useless. Unbreakable + Tenacity, I've seen work. Never tried it myself though.

Can't think of any use for Boil Over other than getting up the nose of killers during the Blight. Except for those running Iron Grasp and Agitation.

Why would you have to buff and nerf different things? This is only about Boil Over

alivebydeadight

wait, doesnt the perk currently counter itself

Visionmaker

@SasukeKun said:

@Eight said:

@SasukeKun said:
Yeah but it would be more attractive if it got some kind of useful change

Totally agree, but the devs can't buff all of these kinds of perks. Or rather, they could, but then they'd have to nerf some other perks and buff killers etc. So the whole thing becomes much more complicated.

I'm pretty convinced that some perks aren't meant to be used (by the average, solo-queuing survivor) once you hit the point where you're collecting teachables etc. But sometimes they become useful again later in odd builds.

E.g. Unbreakable on its own, I find useless. Unbreakable + Tenacity, I've seen work. Never tried it myself though.

Can't think of any use for Boil Over other than getting up the nose of killers during the Blight. Except for those running Iron Grasp and Agitation.

Why would you have to buff and nerf different things? This is only about Boil Over

Any buffs to any part of survivor is bad, get it?

Broken key is worthless? Too bad. We won't buff it. Because survivor buffs are bad for the game.

Keep using your Instaheals.

SasukeKun

@Visionmaker said:

@SasukeKun said:

@Eight said:

@SasukeKun said:
Yeah but it would be more attractive if it got some kind of useful change

Totally agree, but the devs can't buff all of these kinds of perks. Or rather, they could, but then they'd have to nerf some other perks and buff killers etc. So the whole thing becomes much more complicated.

I'm pretty convinced that some perks aren't meant to be used (by the average, solo-queuing survivor) once you hit the point where you're collecting teachables etc. But sometimes they become useful again later in odd builds.

E.g. Unbreakable on its own, I find useless. Unbreakable + Tenacity, I've seen work. Never tried it myself though.

Can't think of any use for Boil Over other than getting up the nose of killers during the Blight. Except for those running Iron Grasp and Agitation.

Why would you have to buff and nerf different things? This is only about Boil Over

Any buffs to any part of survivor is bad, get it?

Broken key is worthless? Too bad. We won't buff it. Because survivor buffs are bad for the game.

Keep using your Instaheals.

Insta Heals aren't good?

ReneAensland

@Entità said:
I'd rework Boil Over like this:

BOIL OVER: "You are a battler and do everything to escape a foe's grasp.

Your struggling speed is increased by 12/24/36%".

Why not add the Flashlight effect too? And a free 125% Speed Increase when you escape the Foe's grasp for 3 seconds.

SasukeKun

@ReneAensland said:

@Entità said:
I'd rework Boil Over like this:

BOIL OVER: "You are a battler and do everything to escape a foe's grasp.

Your struggling speed is increased by 12/24/36%".

Why not add the Flashlight effect too? And a free 125% Speed Increase when you escape the Foe's grasp for 3 seconds.

wtfff is thattttt lmao

Entità

@ReneAensland @SasukeKun The perks are designed to make the difference: if you decide to invest a slot on a perk, this must give you a real usefulness in the game, otherwise nobody uses it and becomes nothing more than a sequence of wasted program lines. I do not context NOED, Devour Hope, Make your Choice and so on: they have a meaning, a purpose, they are not mere little drawings in the HUD. Why does my Boil Over worry you so much? It does not give any certainty to escape from the killer's grasp: it takes only a few seconds, offering an opportunity, as Lithe and Sprint Burst grant a short shot, without guaranteeing any safe escape.

NMCKE

Mister_xD said:

only when you buff iron grasps stats to 50/75/100% decreased struggle effects too.
iron grasp is ment to be the direct counterplay to boil over, so i dont see why the survivors perk should be superious to its direct counter from the killer side.
if one of these two perks has to be stronger, it should be the killers perk, not the survivors.

I agree with @Mister_xD , if this perk gets this buff then I would want to see Iron Grasp get the same treatment.

SasukeKun

@Nickenzie said:
Mister_xD said:

only when you buff iron grasps stats to 50/75/100% decreased struggle effects too.

iron grasp is ment to be the direct counterplay to boil over, so i dont see why the survivors perk should be superious to its direct counter from the killer side.

if one of these two perks has to be stronger, it should be the killers perk, not the survivors.

I agree with @Mister_xD , if this perk gets this buff then I would want to see Iron Grasp get the same treatment.

That wouldn't mathematically make sense with how the game flows. Boil Over Buff would simply give a survivor more of a chance to wiggle a little longer. Iron grasp could still carry out the job

Eight

@SasukeKun said:
Why would you have to buff and nerf different things? This is only about Boil Over

Because if all of the situational or training wheels perks are actually made super useful, you have balance issues. Not all perks can be great.

But assuming, for a second, that Boil Over is the only perk left in the game that people want buffing...
Noone wants to just wiggle longer, they want to escape. Boil Over is deceptively dangerous - it could easily become a Decisive Strike 2 that can be used multiple times per game.

And if you make it good enough, killers then need to counter with Iron Grasp/Agitation, you force all killers to use up a perk slot for a basic mechanic (picking someone up and carrying them to a hook), so you've introduced a balancing issue there.

I'm not opposed to buffing it, but it's not necessarily simple to do.

SasukeKun

@Eight said:

@SasukeKun said:
Why would you have to buff and nerf different things? This is only about Boil Over

Because if all of the situational or training wheels perks are actually made super useful, you have balance issues. Not all perks can be great.

But assuming, for a second, that Boil Over is the only perk left in the game that people want buffing...
Noone wants to just wiggle longer, they want to escape. Boil Over is deceptively dangerous - it could easily become a Decisive Strike 2 that can be used multiple times per game.

And if you make it good enough, killers then need to counter with Iron Grasp/Agitation, you force all killers to use up a perk slot for a basic mechanic (picking someone up and carrying them to a hook), so you've introduced a balancing issue there.

I'm not opposed to buffing it, but it's not necessarily simple to do.

You're not understanding.

The point would be that you have guaranteed wiggle time but there is always another hook. Depends on the situation. You don't have to BUFF killer to coincide

Eight

@SasukeKun said:
You're not understanding.

You're right, I don't.

Are you saying want Boil Over to give you a longer wiggle time - affecting the killers movement but not actually improving your chances of escape?

Edit: Or even, same wiggle time but more movement effects, which would increase your chances of escape substantially.

Mister_xD

@SasukeKun said:

@Nickenzie said:
Mister_xD said:

only when you buff iron grasps stats to 50/75/100% decreased struggle effects too.

iron grasp is ment to be the direct counterplay to boil over, so i dont see why the survivors perk should be superious to its direct counter from the killer side.

if one of these two perks has to be stronger, it should be the killers perk, not the survivors.

I agree with @Mister_xD , if this perk gets this buff then I would want to see Iron Grasp get the same treatment.

That wouldn't mathematically make sense with how the game flows. Boil Over Buff would simply give a survivor more of a chance to wiggle a little longer. Iron grasp could still carry out the job

the longer carrying is somethig entirely else. i am talking about the decreased struggle effect, as the two perks completely coiúnter each other out at that point. that said, both perks have their individual stats they can use, if the other side happens to run the counter perk: iron grasp adds 4 seconds to the wiggle bar and boil over makes hook auras in a certain range invisible to the killer.
if boil over had higher wiggle bonuses than iron grasp decreases, the survivor perk would be superiour to its counter play from the killer, which should not be the case, due to the fact that the killer is the powerrole of the game and survivors should not, by any means, outclass him. not ingame (not alone) and not in the perk section.

frenchela

I don't use boil over at all since it has only worked like 2 times out of the 50 that I've used it lol. Even a slight buff would help though since I had many close calls but only twice I escaped.

Malakir

SasukeKun said:

Can we please buff this to maybe idk something that sounds like this..

Boil Over: Your will to survive is strong and true that gives you energy like a stallion, your struggle effects on the Killer are increased by *50/75/100%.
You obscure The Killer's ability to use hooks that are within 6/8/14 meters when picking up a survivor.

This gives a nice battle to Iron grasp and gives the survivor a good chance to use DS when not the obsession and also brings more viability to Kate's Loadout

No
Especially the "obscure the killer ability to USE hooks" are you insane or just used a bad way to phrase it?

"This gives a nice battle to Iron grasp and gives the survivor a good chance to use DS when not the obsession and also brings more viability to Kate's Loadout"
Also this, why be concerned about DS on nonobsession when per se its a PROBLEM?
Just look around and you will see how people isn't that happy to be dsed by a non obsession. Lets not make it worse

The only change I would make is the description, its really deceiving. It really is, also there are other perks that deserve more love than boil over. This one is the last of the list

SasukeKun

@Malakir said:
SasukeKun said:

Can we please buff this to maybe idk something that sounds like this..

Boil Over: Your will to survive is strong and true that gives you energy like a stallion, your struggle effects on the Killer are increased by *50/75/100%.

You obscure The Killer's ability to use hooks that are within 6/8/14 meters when picking up a survivor.

This gives a nice battle to Iron grasp and gives the survivor a good chance to use DS when not the obsession and also brings more viability to Kate's Loadout

No
Especially the "obscure the killer ability to USE hooks" are you insane or just used a bad way to phrase it?

"This gives a nice battle to Iron grasp and gives the survivor a good chance to use DS when not the obsession and also brings more viability to Kate's Loadout"
Also this, why be concerned about DS on nonobsession when per se its a PROBLEM?
Just look around and you will see how people isn't that happy to be dsed by a non obsession. Lets not make it worse

The only change I would make is the description, its really deceiving. It really is, also there are other perks that deserve more love than boil over. This one is the last of the list

You sound mad about DS. IT's a perk for surv just like BBQ. I just deal with it and it should be more balanced out.

SasukeKun

@frenchela said:
I don't use boil over at all since it has only worked like 2 times out of the 50 that I've used it lol. Even a slight buff would help though since I had many close calls but only twice I escaped.

That's what im saying. IT would disallow the killer to use ONE hook

Maybe the Obscure part could only work for the Obsession? Making it another good obsession perk