Create a trans or non-binary survivor
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Also just fyi, David's lore did involve a girl he was dating, but his sexuality was never explicitly determined. For all we know he could be bisexual.
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Personally as a gay guy, I'm just tired of people needing constant external validation to be able to get on with their lives.
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1 st post, political subject . let the devs do what they want.
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Is everyone actually confirmed cis?
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Demo is
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I wouldn't feel very represented by an openly trans character, I am a stealth transman so most people irl don't know about my past. For all you know Jeff could be trans lmao
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For me as a Transgirl i dont need any representation i mean i wouldnt be mad if we get a Trans Survivor but i dont need it
I just want to have cool looking and Fun Characters whit good Lore i didnt care about the Sexuality of a fictional Character in a Game I just want to have fun
Also im kinda scared that the Community is going to be more toxic if the Devs adds a LGBTQ Character because i already CAN see that some transphobic Killers are going to Camp and hard tunneling a Player who play a Trans Survivor 😕
I Think the Pride Charm is the best thing we got to represent LGBTQ :)
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Read this on why representation does matter:
also people are mostly asking for equal treatment and heterosexual and cis gender chars are already represented. So no need for explicit exclusion
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on2 -
Lgbt+ existence isn't political.
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And just think how easy it would be to change "his ex girlfriend" to "his ex boyfriend" and have that be the only mention of it. All we're asking for.
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That’s great for you! Then you already feel kind of represented. There is also really no one asking for every character to have their sexuality and gender etc revealed.
but there are people out there who would be glad about explicit representation. Or rather not explicit exclusion which is kind of currently the state (the devs have stated they have done it unintentionally and they want to be inclusive)
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Yeah that's why I didn't say this notion is a stupid/bad thing or anything like that coz I understand the importance - I more meant to just vent the way that it unfortunately wouldn't solve my feelings of underrepresentation in media because that always gets complicated by my under the radar choice (i.e how are creatives meant to make a fictional character trans, but also stealth, meaning everyone consuming would know they're trans, completely negating the stealth aspect of it for me anyways? Can't really happen realistically so I feel I've boxed myself into a corner there).
I hope that made more sense of where I was coming from, because I do hope they go for it already, I just have bittersweet unresolved feelings about it which was what I was meaning to relay. I think the only sex scene in media I've ever felt I could relate to was Greyworm's in Game of thrones, him being a male eunoch and all, which probably illustrates best where my head tends to be at in regards to my feelings about myself D:
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Thanks for clarifying! I definitely didn’t understand your first post in this way and this I can totally feel.
representation will never be able to cover every individual. But I guess that’s also why it’s important to have widespread representation in every kind of media. As every media will (hopefully) use different kind of representation it will naturally become easier for an individual to see themselves represented somewhere even if not in one specific movie or game. Also it will help to fight stereotypes and normalize LGBTQ+ as a whole and in all its flavors.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you, sorry I wasn't very clear at first I didn't put much thought into my wording haha but thanks for listening and hearing me. I don't talk about that part of my life very much if ever coz of the extreme shame baggage so this little exchange has felt more cathartic for me than I would have ever guessed so thanks :) ♡
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I get that. And I think the internet can very much help in this regard - because despite all the scum here is there are also many people here listening, giving advice and just being here and not judging.
i do hope you have someone in your social environment, family or friends, you can freely talk to about this. Otherwise i urge you to find someone maybe in a local support group or even the internet. It can really get depressing to always keep everything to yourself I think..
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thats your POV , not mine .
i dont care to see LGBT+ IG but who always ask to add it ? . always the sames persons, i never asked anything to be added .
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It’s really not only his POV. LGBT+ existence is not political.
and you could argue that explicitly excluding LGBTQ+ but at the same time including multiple heterosexual relationships is also political. So we are already past that point.
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This is bassically what i wanted to say in that big pile of text but i was too scared of saying something poorly
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It's not a point of view, LGBT+ people existing isn't political lmao.
Listen to the mods on this one :)
(Specifically the first point being relevant here).
i dont care to see LGBT+ IG
Then stick to your viewpoint of not caring and be silent on the matter.
always the sames persons
Wow LGBT+ people want to be represented in media so they ask for it while non-LGBT+ people don't I'm so surpirsed.
Want to educate yourself on why representation in media matters?
Read the University Thesis linked there.
If not, then once more please follow your own viewpoint and start actually not caring about it.
i never asked anything to be added .
Well lying isn't very nice. Here's you asking to ass a seperate queue for Russia to split them from west EU queues:
Here's you asking for the devs to add in linked set swapping:
All in less than 140 posts. Want me to go through your comments too to see what else you've asked to be added or have I made my point?
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i , personnally dont care to know what gender is any or any char in a video game , ppl who need to know it Only want to create troubles on this forum i think it has nothing to do in a vid game thats all
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No. And I have my suspicions about Bubba...
Sure, but their deliberate inclusion in media is political. Much as Uhura's inclusion in the original Star Trek was political or having the main character of Night of the Living Dead be a black man. In that era, that choice was intensely political.
The thing is - 'political' does not mean 'bad'.
People need to be less scared of 'political'.
It's where we get to thrash this stuff out and horror has always been a surprisingly effective venue for contentious topics, whether it be Barker dissecting his sexuality and identity or Candyman's normalization of interracial relationships as a sympathetic villain.
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"I don't care, I just don't think it has anything to do in a video game"
So in other words, you do care. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't it you that said you don't think making fun of LGBT+ people as a non-LGBT+ person is bigoted?
So do forgive me for not really trusting anything you say on the matter anymore.
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anything who is related with the game plz ? i prefer ask somthing that can made the game better than something that can make trouble
i have rights to not have the same idea than mods .
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Why did you clip a single part of what I said, rather than the whole thing? It's not even a whole sentence - it's a sentence fragment.
If you had, you'd see that I was saying that a world where we could all engage in banter with each other freely, without offense, would be the sort of world I'd want to live in. I gave the example of my mixed family, where my brothers-in-law and I make fun of each other.
I stand by what I said. Equality will have to mean that we all get to make fun of each other without any worries about causing offense.
That said, the mods have made it clear that they don't want that discussion starting up again so let's drop it. K?
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dont tell what i ve not said its your POV
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Yeah, this thread can only go well...
IMO the focus should not be "create a LGBTQ+-Survivor". It should be create a Survivor with a Backstory who is LGBTQ+. And so far BHVR has nailed the backstories and they are working together with a company to create a character which serves well as representation.
So saying that the Survivor should be trans or non-binary as their primary feature is the wrong way around.
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Why did you clip a single part of what I said, rather than the whole thing? It's not even a whole sentence - it's a sentence fragment.
Because I had it sent to me by someone? lmao
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You literally said "I don't care, but" so you do care.
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Ah, I think I know who.
Either way - posting an out of context sentence fragment to give the false impression that I'm some sort of raging bigot is grossly unfair, especially when it's from a deleted discussion that I can't go back and post the actual, full quote from to defend myself.
Despite us disagreeing on certain things, I've always thought you were an honorable and honest opponent, Karu.
This is beneath you.
Let's squash this now. Drama isn't good for anyone.
Ideological segregation is a bad idea. The veracity and validity of an opinion or idea should not be based on the color of someone's skin or immutable identity characteristics. Anyone has the right to express their opinion on any topic that interests them, whether they be straight, gay, bi or trans.
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its too much to respects others opinions that you dont like ? apparently YES , mods should close this Topic
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Idk where the idea came from that I have any honour, but if at all possible could you not refer to me as "Karu"? GBK works just fine- it was fine about a year and a half ago but something happened and I've been getting more and more uncomfortable with non-friends calling me it ever since
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The opinion that LGBT+ characters should be directly excluded from the game, whilst heterosexual relationships are plentiful? Tell me why I, as a gay man, should respect that opinion.
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Fair enough. GBK it is.
I prefer to assume that people who I engage in arguments with, even heated ones, are honorable. Naivety, perhaps?
You acquitted yourself well in that discussion, which is why I'm surprised that you resorted to this sort of tactic here.
I'm happy to debate this issue with you, as these are very complex, very nuanced and very important topics, but maybe DMs are a better venue as the mods don't seem to want this sort of exchange on these boards.
Either way, again, let's cut this drama off here. It never serves anyone but the spectators.
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i never said that , you misunderstood , i said we DO NOT NEED to know what gender or religion is any char on a video game ... you get mad for that
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Please read the post I sent earlier as to why we do, actually, need representation
Or continue to follow your path of "I don't care" and actually start not caring
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i dont agree with you on this point , as i said Sexuality or religion dont need any representation on any game , it's not healthy for anyone and there will be always someone who is not happy with the game AS IT and you just proved it.
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Well since there's already representation of heterosexual relationships then the least we can ask for is to not be purposefully excluded, like the devs admitted to doing and admitted to wanting to change :)
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Hey fellow forum goer, let me put it this way for you:
People wish to see a character who has an orientation or identity that's either the same as theirs or in the same vein because it either allows them to better project themselves onto the media they consume or they think that kind of inclusion is a step forward in showing people that these things are normal and apart of everyday life. Which, theoretically helps teach people acceptance and tolerance.
There's various other reasons too, like just being curious what BHVR might come up with (I'm in this camp personally).
We have male and female characters - because men and women play video games and are a normal part of everyday life. If there was no men or women in the game then people would ask why, right? It's sort of similar.
I don't think wanting these things included is bad as long as it's done well and even if it's not done well the problem won't be 'This character is X' it'll be "This character is badly written"
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That a bold assumption that I can assure you is not true at all.
if you don’t care then act that way
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I have no problem adding...well, anyone to a game as long as it's organic. A good story is a good story.
I do understand however why developers and writers would approach this with a lot of hesitancy - as it can go badly wrong and we've seen it backfire time and time again.
A good example of this would be the popular manga 'My Hero Academia'. Manga/anime has a long history of including gay/bi/trans individuals, but is often criticized for the way they are portrayed - often as an 'Okama' - a stereotypical, effeminate (and usually obvious) male dressed in female clothing.
In a late issue of MHA, a character called Mineta expressed his love for the main character - revealing him as canonically gay/bi. This provoked an overwhelmingly negative reaction. Mineta is the typical manga comic relief - perpetually pervy to the point of being a pest. The author got an enormous amount of backlash for including an LGBT+ character, but making it the wrong character.
It's a minefield.
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I must admit, I wonder how people would've felt if the newest survivor (The CIA agent who was involved in war crimes or something like that) was also one of the LGBT characters BHVR had planned to create.
Wouldn't bother me personally but would it bother others, I wonder?
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yes but let devs do what they want on their game and dont impose your ideas . if they want to add it they will do , let them some more time !
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theyve already said they want to add it so this point is irrelevant
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I don't think it's imposing to go "Hey can you add something like this in your game?"
It'd be imposing if people went around demanding it and insulting BHVR if they didn't, which maybe some people do but I've not seen it here on the forums when it comes to this topic.
Besides, there's plenty of other things to be mad at BHVR at.
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It's the standard 'Mary-Sue' problem.
When you create media not because you think it's a good story (Candyman is a good example of media that is representative but organic) but because you are trying to be 'representative' or to create a character for a specific part of your audience to project onto, it creates problems. People want the character to be perfect - and everyone has a different idea of what 'perfect' means.
The character must be perfectly moral and good, depending on the subjective morality of the individual. They must have the 'right' beliefs. They must have had the 'right' experiences. Any deviations or flaws will be taken personally, and a flawless character is unbelievable and uninteresting.
You can get away with this with a silent protagonist surrounded by a rich world (Gordon Freeman) but it's amazingly difficult to do.
There are plenty of interesting narratives that could be told from a 'diverse' standpoint - Candyman, Us, Devotion, Higurashi - but people are so polarized in their views right now that it's a colossal risk.
I think the CIA agent storyline would be fascinating, but you correctly point out that people would take their immoral actions personally - which is understandable. If they are projecting themselves onto the character, then the immoral actions are part of that and turn into an indictment of whatever beliefs this projection entails.
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Well to be fair I don't actually know how people would take it, I'm honestly curious about it because (To me at least) It would've shown that BHVR's not looking to create the 'Mary-Sue' esque stuff that you mentioned in your post
Take Yun-Jin, she's the 'K-POP' survivor right? Made to appeal to that audience, yet she's a flawed and interesting character. That's what i like to see!
It's a bit hard for me to talk about the projecting subject though because, I don't project myself onto any character in this game or most games really. I play characters I think look cool/have cool backstories or are from games I already like. It's not the same for everyone ofc!
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yes all i said is irrevelent Only your ideas Count . as you said , they will add it so where is your problem ?
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Yes, Yun is an example of a 'diverse' (man, that word has become so passé) story well told. Although in all fairness it could also be framed as BHVR attempting to capitalize on the K-Pop craze in the West right now :)
Tapp from Saw is another great character (a very underrated game too).
The thing is - these characters were organic. Their 'special' identity characteristics are tangential or even irrelevant to that story. Because they aren't the most/only interesting thing about them, and they have believable flaws.
I'm also one of those people that doesn't really project - probably because I grew up in an era where I'd probably be playing an 8-bit plumber, a blue hedgehog or an anthropomorphic, space-ship piloting fox. I actually tend to go for female avatars, as I find them more aesthetically pleasing.
If BHVR wanted to add a canonically LGBT+ survivor or killer, that identity would likely be secondary to the story being told, as with the CIA agent. Making that identity the core of their story is where problems arise, as then you have to tread very carefully as that character could easily become token, or even cause a TLOU2-esque backlash.
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yes all i said is irrevelent Only your ideas Count
No your comment of "Let them add what they want" was the irrelevant part...
as you said , they will add it so where is your problem
My problem comes from the people who are against it's inclusion, that's it.
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