Face camping
This is the 3rd game in a row someone in my game including me has died because they are being face camped by a killer and my team can't do anything about it. Maybe change it so if a killer is within a certain distance of the hook the time is slowed or something to prevent killers from being able to just sit there and camp 2 or 3 kills.
Comments
-
So behaviour actually did something similar to what you proposed back in 2016 I think, this was back before the swivel hook and killers would block the unhook interaction. Survivors started looping the killer near the hooked survivors, essentially abusing the mechanic. Most ideas regarding tunnelling and camping have been tested at one point or another and either the killers or survivors abuse it.
1 -
In that case, just reduce the amount of bloodpoints the Killer get's for staying in a close proximity to the hook.
No need to block anything or give anyone immunity, just deduct points.
1 -
End of the second chase, 4 gens are done, killer has 2 hooks. What can he/she do ?
Explain us =)
5 -
It is necessary to make a hook mechanic so that the killer cannot use abilities within a radius of 20 meters
Also, immediately embed an assassin's aura into the hook itself if it is within a radius of the same 20 meters (without any perks into the hook itself)
And of course, the removal of blood points so that after the match such a toxic would not receive anything
0 -
No is not and how will you make so it cant be abuse by survivors
2 -
Freeze time on the hook if the killer is near the hook
2 -
Survivors could take chase near the hook tho.
3 -
How near exactly? The killer should reasonably be able to defend a hook, why would you expect them to have to not defend a hook from a rescuer? Or say someone is hooked in the shack basement, does this mean the timer isn’t running if the killer is in or near the shack? (Because the entire shack is all within about 10 meters of the hooks.) Also keep in mind that all radius of effects go through floors, so the impact can be slightly different on multifloor maps.
If you make that radius of frozen time too large then you’re just hurting killer’s chances of stopping rescues with nothing to compensate the balance shift. Too small and it may as well not be a thing. So that numerical detail is really important.
3 -
Use kindred and repair gens. Use signals on hook with your arms too. If your team is not a total bread patrol, they should understand it and repair gens.
1 -
Give me one historical example of anti-camping/tunneling mechanics being tested, besides this test you mention in 2016.
2 -
Ok first one to mind was the rework BT, killers would use the undetectable status to bypass it and still camp, so they had to change it so that it has a set radius.
Second was the reworked Decisive strike. Survivors abused the perk doing gens instantly after being unhooked because they knew the killer could not touch them.
If you want examples of direct in game mechanics, behaviour have openly come out in support of camping an tunnelling, so they never had much of reason to nerf it, the example I gave was back when behaviour prioritized "Fun" over balance.
1 -
But you're still punishing killers for something that survivors do. That's really bad game design, even if it was only one point deduction, imagine if killers received extra points for repeatedly hooking the same survivor. Also this idea simply falls apart on maps with multipole floors, I know you could make it so camping only registers if you are on the same level, but imagine how many ways you could get around that, the holes in the jigsaw map, possibly even the hills on the corn, azarovs, ect.
Either way there situations where I can understand camping as a strategy. If there is only one gen left and you only have 4 or less hooks, it would make sense. One possible Idea could see is making it that hook points count more with when there are less gens, but even then I could see killers simply waiting for the first 2 gens to go before starting a match.
0 -
He must seek others, not protect
You have the wrong thinking
Games like this only disappoint
1 -
I’m not saying not to chase other people, I’m saying if a killer is near a hook and another survivor comes in for a rescue then obviously it’s totally reasonable to expect the killer to attack that survivor. I’m not saying the killer should be encouraged to just stand around a hook while all the other survivors are elsewhere, I’m saying the killer shouldn’t be hamstrung to not attack nearby survivors regardless of whether or not someone is on a hook nearby.
What about this as a compromise, for example?
- If the killer is not in a chase, and is within X meters of a hooked survivor, the hooked survivor’s entity progression timer is slowed or halted (depending on what feels balanced) (setting X to some reasonable distance)
- If the killer is in a chase then all hook timers progress normally.
That would encourage killers to go get into a new chase after hooking someone rather than standing waiting for survivors to show up. But it wouldn’t punish killers for getting into chases with survivors near hooks.
3 -
Run BT and kindred. If it's a bubba, just do gensrush. Don't even think to save. If it's not, then go for save with bt.
1 -
Your first mention proves my point exactly. It was killers being able to bypass BT, one of the few anti-tunnel (not anti-camping) perks survivors have. And they still can, just by waiting out 12 or more seconds. It wasn’t changed to a radius activation range, but always triggering upon any unhook. The original BT was anti-camp and anti-tunnel, since it protected both the unhooker and the unhooked. But only worked once per match based on being in terror radius, which was very problematic for several reasons.
Old DS wasn’t abusable to me, as killers had the choice to slug a recently unhooked survivor. And either way you look at it, it still isn’t very anti-tunnel at all, so needs some better features and conditions if it’s going to remain a one-time use perk.
Ah yes, let me dedicate half my build every dang trial in case the killer decides to camp. And even with BT, the best outcome may be a hook trade; at worst, we both end up hooked or downed. And if it’s me being camped, hang there for 850 BP while my teammates get to earn minimal points and get out themselves. Real good advice, much thanks!
1 -
Sadly that's the state of the current meta.
I mean I even faced 80% of tunnelers and canmpers from Ash 4 all the way to Silver 4, ran nothing but Kindred the whole time.
And don't even bother running Borrowed Time, because they still go after the unhooked person even when they took a hit, they are adamant at tunneling and hooking the player off the game asap!
Literally best thing you can do when the Killer is camping and tunneling. Do gens as quick as possible. Get em done and open the exit gates, then try and go for a save and body block hits until everyone gets out.
Unless it's a Bubba, then you can forget about saving anyone. That chainsaw is impossible to avoid.
Remember that Killers who camp and tunnel for that 1k won't rank up at all, they will get 0 pip at best, but you will rank up if you do the gens and heal eachother.
It's just the sad truth, you just have to be lucky with your games and hope you are not the one being camped and learn some looping tricks to keep the Killer busy while the rest do Gens. Waste the Killers time as best as you can.
Running Windows of opportunity helps ALOT with knowing where to loop, you see exactly which pallets are still there and how many.
So my build is something like --> Kindred + Windows of opportunity + Boon: Circle of Healing + Lithe or Dead Hard
I've also run Monto's old Survivor Build which he called The Houdini Build. Really helped alot to make Killers lose me.
0 -
No... my point was that both sides abused mechanics. Current BT is great, 12 seconds of invincibility is pretty good, I actually thought BT worked by the distance of the killer, so guarantee activation is fantastic. I really dislike current DS, I actually made a comment a while ago about why it needs a buff, however if you don't think doing the objective right in front of the killer, knowing you were untouchable was abusive I don't know what to say to you.
Also your bit about the need to run half your build to counter camping, that's the same for both sides. If 4 survivors simply choose to do the gens in 4 minutes, killers have dedicate their entire build to stop it. I have never and will never support camping, tunnelling, or slugging, however I recognise that at times these things are unavoidable. Unless you are ok with deliberately throwing the game.
Also brief mention, I'm assuming you are a new player, joined in the last 2-3 years. Originally survivors and killers ranked up by points, not emblems. The best way to rank up as survivor was through escaping the best way as killer was through killing. This resulted in survivors gen rushing to ensure their escape, and killers face camping as it was the optimal way to rank up. Behaviour implemented the emblem system to encourage players to do othering things in the match, so you needed to do the objective, get saves, chases ect, and the same for killer. What survivors started to do was prolong the match after they reached a point when they felt secure to get as many points as possible. Because gens use to always go in about 4 minutes, and there use to be way more loops, pallets, for survivors, they could continue the match for another 3-5 minutes simply taunting until they felt like they had enough and thus would easily escape through the exit gate. Which created a need for the end game collapse, to force survivors out of the gate. So yes, survivors are just as toxic and abusive as killers.
0 -
Try harder next time and hope they get better and learn what they did wrong. Probably staying in chases longer then they should have instead of pressuring gens, or maybe a different load out or different killer.
We fall down so we can get up again and learn by our mistakes. Remember the two benefits of failure. First, if you do fail, you learn what doesn't work, and second, the failure gives you the opportunity to try a new approach.
Or to put another way, if you are beat then you are beat, take the chase points, pallet break points and try on the next game. You don't have to win every game.
0 -
Then stop complaining about campers. Move on. Next match. What a big deal? Is that too hard?
1 -
Could you stop being like this? Move on already. Grow up. Stop crying over things.
1 -
Or maybe you should start playing killer and then come back here to explain us how you can pressure gens on 4 survivors while you are solo, and that everything is done to make it easy for survivors.
You cannot end a chase in less than 1 minute without the nurse.
It's not about mistakes, it's about 15 pallets on strong loops, 5 windows, the Shack and sometimes 1 semi-infinite.
Ask BHVR for better balance and you won't be face camped once killers will be able to have a fair game.
If you are camped then you are camped, take the struggle points and try to not be caught next game 😆. You don't have to escape every game.
1 -
nope can and will be abuse by survivors try again
0 -
Only killer that can ruin your day with camping is bubba, otherwise just do gens and try 1 for 1 before reaching second stage etc.
Camping is not really an issue imo. So far I have played only against few killers that actually camped from 5 gens, but even most of them were just going full meme and never leaving basement etc.
0 -
That is patently false. Any killer can effectively camp given the right perks, add-ons, hook location, and/or other factors. Other examples just based on killer powers: Hag, Billy, Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, Huntress, and Trickster. And soon to be our new hit-from-anywhere-on-the-map killer.
0 -
When a killer camps the first person he hooks and doesn't allow them to even play how is this fun for survivors?? There needs to be some kind of penalty for camping..heck we get a penalty for DC when there is no hope to even do crap.. also after all the changes the game has become very killer sided and almost impossible to advance at times..
2 -
This method sort of worked actually.
Stopping hook progress can work effectively to prevent camping if it only pauses hook progress while the killer is in close proximity and not in a chase. If they added the "not in a chase", while also within so many meters of the hooked survivor, hook progress is paused.
I think adding sprint burst, no blood and no scratch marks to unhooked survivors would help a lot to prevent proxy-tunneling.
1 -
The Guardian perk will help you.
0 -
I agree
1 -
Confession, I mistook it for Camaraderie. That’s what happens when BHVR renames perks for no real need. This one is actually ok since the buff!
0 -
If you're being camped then you're essentially still taking up the killers time and allowing your teammates to do gens. I agree it's not fun for the survivor, but it's also not a smart trade off for the killer. If the survivor doesn't attempt to escape, and the survivors don't attempt a rescue, that's 120 seconds of hook time where the killer is awol for the other players. A gen takes 80 seconds, with one person working it and no buffs, to pop... so a camped person has afforded his team potentially 3-4 gens. That being said, if one person goes for save and is downed, then when the killer goes to hook them the original can be rescued by another... so you can beat camping without any BT or other perks. A basement Bubba would be difficult to do that with, but not impossible.
When you DC you not only take repair time away from your team and give the time advantage to the killer, but you also reduce the total points that everyone can get. I feel like too many survivors forget they're on a team and should be trying to get as many survivors out as possible, and only play for for themselves.
How in the world has it become killer sided? I main surv but play both, and while I feel the balancing is alright, the recent changes have definitely been in favor of survivors. The recent changes saw boon totems, which i like but are really powerful for survivors, and nerfs to a bunch of killers... how is the game killer sided?
0 -
Meanwhile when I try to camp at high MMR, the SWF will just pop 5 gens before the guy hits 2nd stage hook. Then rescue him and make a bodyblock train to the exit gate. GG.
0 -
This is what should happen even outside of SWF.
If a Killer camps and sits on the hook, punish that playstyle.
0 -
Not really.
Bubba is only killer that you just can't do anything about, you need multiple survivors to save that one person usually.
None of those killers can down both with single use of their power even against BT.
Trickster has good hook defense, that's true, but still weaker than bubba imo.
Huntress, not any hook, but basement is good with her.
Deathslinger? How so, he sucks at it. Never had issue with camping Deathslinger
Pyramid Head, can hit both survivors actually, that's why you need BT... But PH tunneling is really good
Hag, that is more proxy camping, basement is hard to deal with, but normal hooks are not really issue imo, you can always have a flashlight
Billy, that is just weaker version of bubba for camping, can't down both, he can't do much against multiple survivors
0 -
The not in the chase requirement may make it better, however It is not difficult to break a chase, the radius of the triggering the timer slow down would have to be pretty big to avoid proxy camping, (16-20) meters and simply running in a straight line after being hit usually breaks chase. Either way I already stated that this idea fails on indoor maps, even you made it so killers have to be on the same level, there are ways of working around this, and it is unlikely to prevent tunnelling.
Lets say you made it 16 meters. Killers will just sit outside the range. the issue is less face camping and more, killer leaves hook, survivor gets unhooked, killer immediately comes back, finds injured survivor due to groans of pain and blood, killer then tunnels them.
Again there are situations where I recognise camping, tunnelling as a legitimate strategy. There is a difference camping at 4 gens and camping at 1 gen.
0 -
I needed to take time to read your comment in full. No, I am not a new player (been playing since 2016), and yes I understand that both sides can be toxic. I'm not here to really discuss points and emblems, but the main topic: facecamping.
1 -
If you haven't read it, whey even post? Also my point from each post has been, Behaviour has attempted to address camping, tunnelling, abusing mechanics multiple times and either the killer worked around it or survivors have worked around it or abused it.
0 -
I did read it... that's the first thing I said, that I needed time to read it before responding.
I just don't recall any of these alleged attempts you say BHVR has made. The last real change was increasing each hook state timer to 60 seconds from 45 seconds. That was patch 1.5.3 per the wiki. We're now in 5.3.2. Sickening.
1 -
Are you for real? Are you a real person?
One my original post: failed
two the BT: failed
Three the DS: failed
four the emblem system: failed
Each attempt the community found a way to work around or exploit it. My point was that there have been attempts to discourage camping and tunnelling throughout DBD's history and it has failed every time. I have said all 4 of those things to you and your response is " I don't recall any of these alleged attempts".
If you seriously played this game since 2016 and you cannot recall any attempts by the devs, just... stop. Just say you started playing since 2018, at least I could understand where you are coming from.
Lastly you responded by saying "I need time to respond." There is no rush. Take all the time you need. You need a week to think of response, take a week, I don't need an update.
0 -
And he goes to tunnel the one who was removed
Just a brilliant tactic
You will take off hooks and off hooks, but what about the genes?
0 -
What needs to happen is actual suspensions over face camping. No it is not too harsh of a punishment and no I do not care that it allows the rest of my team to gen rush so I can die for it. Face camping is an extremely toxic, unfun and unfair act by the killer that does absolutely nothing but ruin the game for survivors. The killers that do this already don't care about winning. They do it to be toxic and piss off survivors. The only way this stops is if people start getting suspended for it. Face camping needs to be recognized as something that disrupts normal game play and become a punishable act. This crap would stop so fast if this were to happen.
1 -
But how will the game detect this cause the game can only detect the time you are close to the hook cause you loose points. Say you get suspended when you have xtime near hook then survs will lopp around hook all day long and you basicly can't defend.
or should it be with the report system then you can bet your checks on every killer being suspended after a week cause every swf that did not liked how the killer played or which killer he played will report.
That's the sad truth the moment bhvr is trying to do something against camping or tunneling the survs will find a way to abuse it and the past shows that cause the tryd something like kinship while the killer camps the hook state pauses and after a week or so survs where abusing it so hard
0 -
Yeah, it would be too hard for a fair system to ban people just by being near a hooked survivor. They just need to decrease the hook timer by up to 90% based on the killer’s proximity to the hook. That would buy up to almost two extra minutes for survivors to take care of business while the killer loses the game.
0 -
They actually tryed that and it got abused badly by the survs
0 -
Sigh. Not this again.
How do you abuse this? Killer either chases and downs someone near a hooked survivor, or the hooked survivor eventually dies to the Entity.
0 -
It's quite easy if the hooked surv is let's say near a jungle gym or the shack a good surv will loop you a considerabl amount of time near the hooked and so not only waste your time cause you can't disturb the other two working on gens but you don't even get the one survivor you downed fair and square closer to death
The problem is every time you try to give a mechanic that should prevent face camping you will hurt killers that are near the hook for a good reason like two survs try to save at the same time you see both you can't chase both so you stay near hook to lure them but at that time the hooked one isn't dying so basicly you get punished for defending your objective
1 -
But... how? How could a survivor abuse that? If the killer is face camping they would be the ones making that happen and not the survivors.
1 -
If facecamping gets a killer 2 or 3 kills, he's playing against idiots or survivors that want to fight at the hook.
0 -
Like I already said when you pause or extent the hook time just for being near the hooked survivor others will just loop you around them and when they are good or the hook. Is near a good loop and you can't get them you actually get punished for defending and that should never happen and the past proves that cause that is what happened when bhvr was trying to prevent camping like that
0
