PSA its 48 meters
Comments
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Better coverage estimation?
If I tell you a map is 100m across, and the radius is 24m, then you might mistakenly think 100/24 ~= 4, so 4 totems needed to cross a map. But diameter is more useful there (you can fit two boon totems across the map). And then if you square it for area, you're off by a factor of 4 (thinking it'd take 16 boon totems to get majority map coverage, not 4).
Of course, this all relies on people's mental models being faulty, but if we're comparing with square maps, it's perhaps easier to rough it out as squares of length diameter rather than circles.
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Not sure how cause a ton if stuff works that way in the game
WoO also has 32m radius. Wether you look in front of you or behind you doesn't matter. Same for Bond
BBQ doesn't show aura's within a 40m radius. Doesn't matter in which direction.
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Radius is from the edge of the circle to the middle so if you only look at Radius your only looking at half the circle
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Math - Not even once!
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"Better coverage estimation?"
That's called the area. You determine the area using the radius.
"If I tell you a map is 100m across, and the radius is 24m, then you might mistakenly think 100/24 ~= 4, so 4 totems needed to cross a map."
If you tell me a map is 100 meters across, that doesn't tell me anything unless the map is a perfect square. I'd need to know the area of the map and then divide that by the area of a boon totem's influence (which, again, uses radius) to figure out roughly the minimum number of Boon totems are needed to cover the whole map.
The only way someone makes the mistake you are alleging is if they are confusing radius with diameter, which is on them.
That's not how area works at all. By using the radius to figure out the area, you are indeed looking at the whole circle.
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It's on them, but it's not like it's an uncommon mistake; basic geometric knowledge isn't floating around the back of everyone's mind, and I'm sure some people are just using radius=range in their head.
As for the 100m not telling you anything, I mean, it does: it tells you how many totems you need to bridge it from one side to the other.
When we're doing quick and dirty estimates rather than exact calculations, mixing radius with lengths is asking for issues. If we're doing rigorous calculations, then we're not the people who need the reminder how radius and diameter are different. Also,
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"I'm sure some people are just using radius=range in their head."
The radius is the range. That information is indeed correct.
"As for the 100m not telling you anything, I mean, it does: it tells you how many totems you need to bridge it from one side to the other."
What is 100 m? Length? Width? Diameter? Hypotenuse? What shape we talking here? Like I said, does not tell me anything.
"When we're doing quick and dirty estimates rather than exact calculations, mixing radius with lengths is asking for issues"
Only if you don't understand basic geometry. If you understand what a radius is and what a diameter is, you shouldn't be getting this wrong. If you do get it wrong, that is your fault for not understanding it, not the game's for using the radius.
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Ok I think things have gotten mixed up
Yes if you want the best coverage estimation then area is what you use and yes you need radius to figure it out.
What I'm saying is people area using the radius as an argument as to why boons aren't good but thats it just the radius and nothing else no area no diameter just radius.
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So the wiki says the area of wreckers is 9216 m×2 and a boons area is 1809.56 thats alot on whats a decent map image midwich or the game
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If enough people understood enough of maths, and had the ability to apply it on demand, that this mistake wouldn't happen, lotteries would probably be way less popular than they are.
"If I tell you a map is 100m across..." Pretty sure I already explained that part only one post earlier. Now, if I then grab the diameter, it's two totems to cross the map from side to side. Keeping to this rough estimate, if we then assume the map is square and use the diameter as the length of a square, we can estimate that four totems will give you most of the map covered--nearly 100% by the estimate.
And if we then use actual calculations, it's 10,000m^2 and 1809m^2, so those four totems actually cover ~72% of the map. Not bad for an estimate that required no actual specifics. Then compare with the size given for e.g. wreckers just now, and all the numbers line up pretty well.
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I feel like thats a problem with the community is they look at a perk and just see the face value. An example is the people who say DH only extends the chase 3 seconds because they are using it for its face value purposes I think that makes sense.
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"If enough people understood enough of maths, and had the ability to apply it on demand, that this mistake wouldn't happen, lotteries would probably be way less popular than they are."
They only need to apply the definition of radius. That is, at the absolute most, intro math in high school. We're not talking calculus here.
"If I tell you a map is 100m across..." Pretty sure I already explained that part only one post earlier."
Across what? The center of the map? The outer edge? Only now are you actually bothering to mention the shape.
"Now, if I then grab the diameter, it's two totems to cross the map from side to side. Keeping to this rough estimate, if we then assume the map is square and use the diameter as the length of a square, we can estimate that four totems will give you most of the map covered--nearly 100% by the estimate.
And if we then use actual calculations, it's 10,000m^2 and 1809m^2, so those four totems actually cover ~72% of the map. Not bad for an estimate that required no actual specifics. Then compare with the size given for e.g. wreckers just now, and all the numbers line up pretty well."
Why use the diameter? Why not use the radius? If the answer is "it's confusing," I refer to my statement about intro high school-level math.
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Its 24 meter range of the totem 48 meter diameter it's the same thing just said another way soooooooo..... Jolt
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And yet, people will still get radius intuitively wrong no matter how simple the maths is.
The centre of the map or the outer edge are likely the same across in most cases anyway. Because that's square, and that's simpler. And this is making assumptions for simplification for estimation.
As for why use the diameter in this case? Because if we're trying to do broad, super-quick estimates using squares, diameter maps to side length, radius doesn't.
I don't know what you're arguing against here. I'm not saying change the description. I'm saying it's not the useful value for most purposes related to boons and all its derived values are more practical.
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"And yet, people will still get radius intuitively wrong no matter how simple the maths is."
That's their fault for getting it wrong.
"The centre of the map or the outer edge are likely the same across in most cases anyway. Because that's square, and that's simpler. And this is making assumptions for simplification for estimation."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you somewhere because from how I see things, that's DEFINITELY not the case.
"As for why use the diameter in this case? Because if we're trying to do broad, super-quick estimates using squares, diameter maps to side length, radius doesn't."
If you have the radius, you know the length anyways. And from there, you can also calculate the area. The diameter doesn't accomplish anything meaningful that can't also be accomplished by the radius.
"I don't know what you're arguing against here. I'm not saying change the description. I'm saying it's not the useful value for most purposes related to boons and all its derived values are more practical."
I'm saying that the radius IS the useful value and that the diameter is the non-useful value. The radius tells you how far away you can be while still being under its influence. The radius tells you the actual area of influence. The radius tells you how many totems are needed to fill the range of influence with precision. I'm arguing against your claim that it's not the useful value because I think it is wrong because I think referring to the diameter can actually be misleading. If you refer to the totems range of influence as 48 meters, then someone else says "Oh, so I have to be 48 meters from the totem to get its effect?" Then you say "No, you have to be 24 meters." Then that person says "Oh...so why didn't you say that to begin with?"
Just to make a point about the misleading part:
"All boon totems cover a 48m area in a bubble"
This here is wrong. The area being covered by the boon totem is NOT 48 meters.
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I'm saying the radius is only useful insofar as it lets us derive information that is more relevant to the balance of it. Either area if you want to do the direct calculation, or diameter if you want to hack it together in 5s with no actual maths. Approximation has a place.
Though I think this thread was made because of people saying "only 24m". That's quite a lot if you can have that placed multiple times (the downside of BBQ is the exact same thing: < 40m radius from any hook on a surprising number of maps is "everywhere").
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"I'm saying the radius is only useful insofar as it lets us derive information that is more relevant to the balance of it."
This is exactly why the radius is more useful. Even if you want to do an approximation, that's still easy to do with the radius. Like I said, there is NOTHING the diameter accomplishes that the radius doesn't.
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Idiot-proofing?
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I would argue that referring to it by diameter does the opposite of that.
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Your assuming that the people im talking to are trying to find out more like the area but no there argument is boons aren't that good is only 24 meters. This is true but its not the whole picture they are looking a half a circle and saying thats not that much but there's a whole other half which the diameter shows better just really quick.
As for the bubble you are right is more of a cylinder my mistake.
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"This is true but its not the whole picture they are looking a half a circle"
That...isn't true? Using the radius is not only looking at half a circle. You use the radius to look at the entire circle. The diameter isn't necessary.
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Again they just want to use the radius as thats all the boon covers not the area nothing like that just the 24m. Thats all the boon covers is 24m?
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The boon covers a radius of 24 meters, yes.
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That is . . . way more coverage than I thought. The potential to cover almost one fifth of the map. Wow. Just, wow.
Now, obviously what I'm about to say probably can never happen, but what if the Survivors got a really small map with the perfectly placed totem spawns such that they can cover almost the entire map at once? That would be so cursed. Again, I know that the criteria for that to happen are very niche, but I don't think that it is healthy for that to even be a near possibility.
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