Smartface Bubba doesnt need to be removed
There is nothing wrong with smartface as a cosmetic. Yes, some people use it as an additional way to target POC players, streamers, and survivors, but thats only because they GIVE the power to the cosmetic. Calling it "blackface bubba" is giving it power that it doesnt have without these complaints. Even if it gets removed, what does that solve? does that make all racist players quit? No. If people want to be racist in a game they will.
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Jesus, now we have this discussion because someone says it should not be removed.
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I too have never seen an issue with this headpiece.
Leatherface could care less about the color of your skin, your sexuality, or any disability... he'll still wear your face.
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Uh what?
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I'm a Claudette and Bubba Main I love them them my boo's
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What prompted you to make this thread?
Is it your intention to just argue with people who think the cosmetic should be removed? It won't change anything.
If BHVR want it gone, it's going. If they don't want it gone, it's staying
Like I don't get it, all threads like this do is pit people who aren't changing their viewpoints against one another for a few hours until a mod comes in and closes it
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You are overreacting. Please calm down.
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Ah #########, here we go again.
Remember, Claudette isn't the only minority Bubba makes a face out of.
Jake Park would like a word with you if you believe so.
BUT, that doesn't mean it justifies any racist behaviour. If you are a racist, then there's something wrong with you, but just becuz you have smartface as Bubba's face, you're not automatically a racist.
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At least the title is correct.
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I think it should stay and they should add in more of the original cast. I also believe the its an extreme minority that uses it for racist purposes and removing it is only a win for them
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Why and who asked for cosmetics to be removed lol. What's the problem?
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Oh for ######### sake.
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Imagine the devs only leaving out Claudette from being made into a mask. People will call it racist regardless.
Some people can never be satisfied.
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One of the community managers has also gone on record saying they're looking into re-negotiations to change it into something else, all of them, so 🧍
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A little off topic but It would be cool to see more of the original survivors as masks for bubba.
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Best skin in the game lowkey.
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Please just close this topic before it goes any further.
Does anyone even notice which face Bubba is wearing? With the lighting in this game you can barely tell the skin tone.
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Second That.
This thread will be out of hand by page 3.
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People on twitter who have too much time on their hands to be offended over everything did.
Nothing to see here.
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we have come full circle :D
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One thing to mention is that his face beneath the mask seems to be actually darker than for the other cosmetics and that should really get changed as that is actually going in the direction of black face.
other than that. Either remove/change all surv face masks or none. Otherwise it’s just dumb
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Yes, you absolutely can.
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The players who are racist probably won't leave, but we also don't have to give them tools to be freakin' weird. I get the whole, Leatherface isn't racist argument, but it ain't about the character and people should stop making it about the character. It's about players behaving in really messed up ways towards a specific group of players. I know a lot of people who play this game don't know or care about the cultural context of why people do not want to see this cosmetic continue to be in the game. Yet, I would like people to just take a step back and consider that none of this is directed at you and that no one is actually asking you to do anything.
When us POC players complain about the cosmetic we ain't talking to you. We're talking to BHVR. If you don't agree, that's cool, but the stupid thing should be removed. To do so literally costs nothing and if people really got a problem with it just give the folks who unlocked it blood points or iri shards.
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It's a murderer.... who tortures and skins all types of people.... and uses their faces.... on a imaginary world in a video game...
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I get the whole, Leatherface isn't racist argument, but it ain't about the character and people should stop making it about the character.
Literally the second sentence.
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Then what is it about if it's literally a cosmetic on a character in a virtual imaginary world? It's not that deep.
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Again, it isn't about the character. It is about the way a certain section of players behave towards another specific section of players. I've repeated this because you clearly didn't read what I said.
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So ban those players? Racist trolls will be racist trolls, with or without a cosmetic.
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It's about giving racists an obvious tool to be racist without it being technically bannable. If they say racist things in endgame chat, that's bannable. If they have a racist username, that's bannable. If they tunnel and facecamp the POC while wearing the blackface/yellowface cosmetic, and do it to no other survivors, then it's pretty obvious what's happening, however unless this is targeted across multiple games on the same people it isn't bannable.
And once again, a community manager has gone on record saying they're attempting negotiations for it to be removed, however it's ultimately up to the licence holders.
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In Texas, you go big or you go home guys.
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This thread is probably going to get yeeted, but OP was right about one thing only:
The cosmetic really doesn't need to be removed.
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Anyways, that's like saying if a killer tunnels and camps someone with the LGBT flag it's phobic. Unless they state it was out of biggotry, it's only an assumption.
Post edited by Rizzo on6 -
Yes, yellowface. As in, the Jake Park face. Because Bubba is still white immitating an Asian person. And yellowface does exist, as does blackface; look it up.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Bubba needs to be deleted period, most scrummy no brain killer to use. A person who just pick up the game in 30mins can easily win with that scrub bloat whale.
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I agree.
I actually chatted with the missus (a lovely, incredibly intelligent Nigerian woman) about this, and in her opinion, removing it would actually be something of an insult to POC people. It's like saying 'well, Bubba wouldn't wear that'.
The entire issue seems to be a deliberately uncharitable read of a situation and attempting to frame it as bigotry.
That said, while it does make me roll my eyes, I really don't care overmuch.
Bingo.
Honestly, there's an argument to be made that this is exactly how inclusivity should look.
Well, yes?
There's definitely a discussion to be had here. I'm not a fan of the whole 'one or two people on Twitter find something problematic therefore nobody gets to enjoy it' mindset right now.
In a situation of Schrodinger's Offensiveness, always infer a charitable interpretation.
Sure. But in the same respects, sanitizing everything because of hypotheticals/not to risk offending anyone is a ridiculous route to go. It turns into a nasty little purity spiral where literally everything is problematic.
I still remember the 'Far Cry 5 is TOO diverse' articles, because some journalists...didn't like that you could have black enemies. There was also a big thread last night about how making the new survivor a war criminal is problematic. In a horror game.
This game already has a pretty robust reporting system and the devs have made it clear that anyone acting in a bigoted manner will have them rain hell down upon them.
As far as I'm concerned, that's more than enough.
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I'm pretty sure calling asian people yellow is considered racist? At least in Europe is quite frowned on.
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This is the first I'm hearing about renegotiations, and I'm fairly horrified we might end up losing cosmetic options (and what was one of the neatest ways to obtain a cosmetic in this game, imo, it's like a secret bonus unlock and I wish there was more of the sort in DBD) over the endless offense olympics.
Removing Smartface does nothing to hinder racist #########. They'll still be spamming slurs and tunneling certain characters and using extremely offensive names. People that want to cause trouble will cause trouble. If we have to lose all of Bubba's faces over a tiny minority of players calling out another tiny minority of players that should be banned anyway, I'll be pissed.
People really need to ruin things for everyone, I guess.
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The cosmetic does not need to be removed. Leatherface is a serial killer, so he will kill whoever and wear whoever. He is not even fully there mentally. The rest of this post is something I will not comment on. As General said, at least the title is correct.
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Right- apparently "yellowface" is the more Americanised term- just checked in with a friend (and yes, calling Asian people yellow is horrendously racist) and it's better to use cultural appropriation over it as it's less offensive (they're also not an expert on the subject, neither am I, however since they're iirc half-Chinese I thought they're better to ask and get opinons from rather than use my own knowledge).
Regardless of the term, though, it's something that was portrayed in media frequently and still is rarely to this day. It's far less recognised than blackface, however is still a problem, and Jake's face cosmetic is cultural appropriation like Claudette's face is blackface.
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It's not cultural appropriation since Bubba isn't do it with the intent to be offensive to a culture, he literally just kills everyone and skins them.
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Agreed.
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I totally agree.
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Is he though?
Or is Bubba just wearing the face of a victim that happens to be non-white?
I know what you are saying, but comparing this to the Asian equivalent to a minstrel show...I don't think that's fair. It's definitely not what the devs intended it to be (BHVR are among the most progressive companies out there).
I think that Bubba refusing to wear the face of someone simply because they were POC would be far more problematic.
It's a lose-lose scenario for the devs, sadly.
'Yellowface' is a term that refers to someone imitating an Asian person (and this next clause is key) to denigrate or make fun of Asian people at a racial/cultural level.
I'm pretty sure that's not what Bubba/BHVR actually meant here. Thus, I don't think it's applicable.
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I'm having a real hard time gathering your viewpoint on the matter of the cosmetics themselves. Surely it'd be more racist if they were removed now? Positive discrimination is also a thing that I'd rather avoid. Regardless of the terms used, it hardly matters to the character itself. He just wears people's faces. As I just said, it'd be worse imo if he actively avoided faces from people of colour.
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Going back to @ReikoMori's post, since I think they worded it really well- "I get the whole, Leatherface isn't racist argument, but it ain't about the character and people should stop making it about the character."
Stop making it about how Leatherface isn't racist for doing so, because nobody is disputing that he isn't. It's not about proving he's racist, but about taking away a tool and allowing POC to feel more comfortable in the game. If people are using it to be racist and if people are finding it uncomfortable for these reasons, especially then listen to the community and remove it. If you aren't the people who have been historically oppressed from it, then you of course won't understand why it makes people uncomfortable because you simply don't have the experience- it's like asking a lawyer for advice on a brain surgery. Both have different experiences leading to different types of knowledge which makes their opinions far more valid on certain things (as in, for legal issues I'd absolutely go to the lawyer).
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So should we also remove the pride flag since homophobic people exist?
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People haven't said to remove them outright but change them. Make them collectables from the survivors instead- suck as Claudette's glasses, Jake's scarf, Dwight's tie, Meg's... hair I guess? You could easily take her cap from that one common outfit too. Remove the faces, remove the issues, make it something substantially less obvious while keeping the cosmetics.
That's a suggestion I've seen a lot, and is probably the best compromise.
Firstly, again, stop making it about the character Bubba and start making it about the players and their use of it, since that's the major issue people are having with it. Fog Whisperer DyllonKG put together this article on why the definition has evolved over time, and it isn't based entirely on minstrel shows anymore.
See above for the suggested changes to the cosmetics- not outright removing, but changing.
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I really don't think "taking away a tool" is the way to go about it. I can't speak for any poc, since I'm the palest guy I know, but I do think that reasoning is a very, very slippery slope.
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Congratulations you've massively missed the point. Like it's genuinely impressive how far out that reach is; really hope you stretched else that'll really hurt tomorrow.
Bubba's faces isn't representation or expression of yourself, pride charm is.
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"taking away the tool" is what I've seen POC say time and time again, so that's probably the best way of putting it. At least from what I've seen from a lot of people.
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I'm sorry but this thread needs to be closed.
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