You know you messed up when the most neutral content creator has to make a video about mmr
otz just made a video saying that almost everyone he knows hates MMR in the game and the killer qeues are soo fast that it makes him believe that people are actually quiting playing killer.
Comments
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He is right though. What did SBMM actually improved upon compared to ranked system ? I can't think of a single damm thing.
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I think Behavior had the right idea with MMR but they basically bottomed out by telling everyone how it will work. Not just that but it's such a rudimentary design... wins only count for exit gates and sacrifices? Theres way more that goes on in the game than just leaving or dying.
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It's made the game so so unfun.
Post edited by DangerScouse on9 -
This is clearly not Otz
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No but it's interesting to hear his opinions on this matter since he is far less biased than most people at least on these forums.
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The biggest issue is people talk about how it's only bad at high mmr. But since the MMR system is skewed so killers gain MMR fast, it means almost every killer playing more than a month will hit max MMR. Meanwhile survivor is much harder to get into top MMR. This results in killers playing against survivors way out of their league. It's basically just like ranks where killer was made easier to get to rank 1 with because rank 1 survivors were sick of going against the same handful of players.
But yeah, it's not just a vet issue. You can be playing a month or less and be top MMR. It only takes 17 4k's and a 2k to go from bottom to max MMR. Or 80 1k's, which can be achieved by just facecamping the first survivor you down for 80 games. Yes, even guys who just face camp are at top MMR because you have to 0k to actually lose MMR. And few people are getting 0k's more than they get even a single kill. If you played a solid amount when MMR dropped, you were likely top MMR before the week even ended.
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I mean, not that it matters. Maybe they will change some parameters, but MMR will stay in the game. They will not go back to ranked Matchmaking and IMO Rank Matchmaking was even worse.
But I also doubt that they tweak MMR when they end up on "Kills and Escapes matter" after so much time.
(Even so, I might be wrong on that one, on my Huntress I get a lot of really bad Survivors lately. Which happened all of a sudden.)
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The reason I'm not playing killer has nothing to do with MMR and everything to do with boons.
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I quit, but I'm only 1 person.
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MMR is useful for finding design problems. (This can, and does, include MMR itself)
It is not useful for a varied experience.
Edit: This is also assuming a Skill-based MMR, not a Kill-based MMR
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I get that inexperienced players can get to Top MMR in a short time because of how bonkers it is but why are we pretending as if the sweat loadouts or gen rushers are suddenly new? This has existed for a long long time. To me they should fix the core mechanics of the game instead.
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Exactly. Now the sweaty killers are facing the sweaty survivors, instead of being paired with everyone else. As it should be.
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There's an issue when you consider 100% of killers sweaty
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I just quit sweating.
I don't kill and I don't escape anymore, and I feel I am having a lot of fun. As killer I go for 4 stacks then 8 hooks. As survivor I do all I can to play and help the team, but I always go back and save everyone else then meme around and make sure I die.
In fact, the only time I escape anymore, is if the killer carries me to the door and drops me. As I feel at that point, it is in bad form to stay.
But, I noticed my games are getting much less sweaty and my competitors also seem to be taking the game less seriously.
Not for everyone, I know, but lots of fun for me.
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I hate mmr.
I can also tell that someone who makes a living off win streaks is gonna hate mmr too, but for reasons different from mine.
Survivor queues are fast as well during the day. As usual. Nothing changed. Players' count has been stable on steam charts. Nobody's quitting. There's no exodus of an oppressed minority.
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The idea of moving towards MMR was good. Their implementation has been...awful. I can go from survivors at my skill level in one game to default Dwights with 5 hrs playtime in the next. It's not working or it is working and it's just bad.
They failed to capture any of the meaningful nuance behind good survivor play.
And to top it off, their communication on the system has been peak BHVR arrogance. To paraphrase: "We've even had employees complaining to us about it! Wouldn't it be great it if it captured all the nuance and skill that goes into DbD?!?" Yeah dude...it would. That's why we're upset. What's it like being so tone-deaf?
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Exactly. Everything is the same for me too. My wait times are instant for survivor.
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But Otz said in the video he's gotten used to MMR and it doesn't really bother him that much. It has nothing to do with his streak videos
He's talking about what he's seeing from other people/his experience with the que times in his region
And people might not be quitting DBD completely, they might just not be playing killer as much/at all and playing survivor instead.
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Otz's video wasn't expressing issues with sweaty killer games. He said that he's mostly adjusted to that, and that it doesn't seem as bad as it was initially; what he's noticing is that survivor games seem to get paired against very random opponents. He was focusing on the 'stomp or be stomped' aspect; people bringing up that they're either getting matched with opponents far above them or far below them with little in-between.
And that's something I've noticed too. While I am seeing even games, I'm also seeing huge variance in the killers I get matched with; I regularly get killers that know exactly what they're doing, and I regularly get killers that play like they're still very new to the game. It's not just my teammates that seem very random.
My killer MMR is shot to hell right now, so I can't really comment on that front.
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I'm a killer and MMR is fine, because I'm not sweaty.
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You may have quit and like you say your only one person but if other did the same as you then its not just 1 person who quit but many more. For me boon made me quit killer i still play the game as survivor and its a different experience.
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So you average 0k's?
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You dont need to be sweaty to get more than 0Ks. I also play mainly for fun and dont use Slowdowns. I would probably win more games if I would use Slowdowns (after all, stacking Slowdown-Perks is the easiest way to play Killer), but I could care less about getting 4Ks nowadays.
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The point is if you are averaging even a 1k and play long enough you reach top MMR. If you even get a 1k your MMR goes up. Leaks on how MMR works from data miners show top MMR is 1900 and you start at 1200. You can gain a max of 40 per match and any match you even get a 1k in raises your MMR. If you aren't top MMR you either barely play or somehow average 0k's more so than any kills, which is the only way you're going to be losing MMR and not constantly gaining. Knowing max MMR is 1900, you start at 1200, and a 4k nets you 40 points means It takes
17 4k's
or 80 1k's
or 38ish 2k's to reach top MMR. It's not very hard to do that at all, especially in the 3 months MMR has been out.
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it has nothing to do with mmr because most people play bad in the evening good players play the game in the morning or in broad daylight.
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Trust me, you are not alone....
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Playing on Switch, I don't kill survivors. I often couldn't kill survivors even if I wanted to because I can't track them. The framerate is so low on Switch that I don't get enough visual data to follow them. Because of the low framerate, I have to keep the sensitivity low, so even if I can predict what they're about to do I'm usually still too slow to actually hit them.
Despite practicaly never killing survivors and being in the Ash grades, I'm going up against survivors who are Gold and Iridescent grade (don't say "grades don't matter," they mean something) who know exactly how to screw with my Switch issues and can avoid ever being hit by my weapon once until I go, "Oh, I see, matchmaking completely screwed me here," and I go AFK.
I don't "sweat." I don't run gen slowdown perks. I run Lightborn, BBQ, Distressing, and Beast of Prey. I don't kill. I often don't even hook. My games go super fast if the survivors know how to hold M1.
So why is it that I can play survivor competently and get Ash teammates who don't know what a gen is, but I should be in the lowest MMR bracket possible as killer and yet the survivors are gold and iridescent and can do gens and avoid getting hit at all? It's backwards! Is the matchmaking system actually looking at my survivor MMR when I queue up as killer and vice versa? It certainly feels like it.
No matter how many 4e games I have as killer, I rarely seem to get the kind of potatoes I should where I can screw around and actually have fun and earn some BP. I'm playing killer less and less.
I envy all the players for whom SBMM is working. I have yet to see any improvement in my matches for it.
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who could have ever forseen this
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Poor Otz, the guy legit tries his very best to keep the peace between this games bad choices (you dont just put MMR in as an afterthought, it has to be in there from the start, EVERY developer knows this.) and the fans. You can tell it stresses him out along with others trying to keep the calm.
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Wait, your MMR rises if you get a 1k? That's absurd. The devs have repeatedly stated they consider a 2k the median result they're hoping for. 1k is still underperforming, so why would your MMR go up for that? I've been under the impression all this time that a 2k kept your MMR static, 3k+ was upward movement, and 1k- was downward.
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This is where the "1k is a win" thing comes from. The Q&A stated the MMR system views a 1k as a win.
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No I average 2-3Ks with hatch. But I get multiple hooks, a high score, and a pip, as opposed to a 4hook 4K camper who gets neither but shoots their MMR up into sweaty hell.
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It's impossible to tell.
Killer MMR is based on four 1v1s. A kill is a gain, an escape is a loss, a hatch or DC is neutral. The 3 1v1s adds up.
But the amount each kill/escape increases/decreases depends on the relative difference between your MMR and the Survivors MMR.
If you kill a very high MMR survivor, and three very low MMR survivors escape, that could potentially be a positive MMR change.
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Otz is not neutral, neutral would be being neutral. I am neutral. You can tell because I do not make posts praising or hating mmr and have said I could live with or without it.
Being against mmr is just being against mmr, lol???
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We don't need Otz to tell us mmr is crap, this is probably the worst decision bhvr has made, but they still won't do anything, I'd be happy if the game starts dying slowly so bhvr learns that their ideas are crap most of the time.
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You're almost certainly in the same MMR as that 4k camper, my man, assuming you play regularly.
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Then why are my games brilliant?
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That I can't say. But we know how the MMR works, the gains per kill, the starting and the cap. If it works as we know it and the devs have basically said, then you're going to be at that same cap they're at very quickly. My best guess is region or play times.
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I don't see how.
If you 2k then you more or less break even and barely move at all. If you 3k, depending on the MMR of the survivors, you could still barely move up at all, maybe 1-5 points. It takes 800 to reach the top MMR bracket.
If you don't realise that, then you don't understand how it works after all.
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I agree with Otz' video. The introduction of boon totems did mess up some killer play styles (most notably hit & run). But besides some minor tweaks to how those skills work i think it's ok & didn't ruin the meta too much. Which is the problem. Of all the perks introduced over the years, there are only about a half dozen that are used on either side which give you a chance to "win". Sure you can have fun with some meme builds but you won't "win" with those.
My main issue is map balance. Maps are not rebalanced often enough. Personally I'd rather have 3 month updates include rebalancing & general game updates instead of new chapters introduced. Move the new characters to a 6 month release. It's weird that as a killer I see maps with multiple god pallets or infinite loops then as survivor i get maps that have huge dead zones with a pallet which is completely unsafe, not even able to mind game. I understand it's hard to balance a map however if the dev team put more resources into improving the game outside of introducing new characters with perks the game could be in a healthier state overall.
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It's past time to create a casual mode and a ranked mode. so the sweat lords have a place to be as tryhard as they like, and people who just want a fun time can enjoy the game once again.
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Nah, if they think hit validation needs to exist for pallet drops and dead hard but not vaults, they do not know how to design games better than I do. I must be some super genius to believe consistency is better than arbitrary changes. I never even went to game design school to get my game design degree, I am just naturally gifted, Mr. White.
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You realise Casual mode would be the one full of sweatlords right? Where they can noobstomp free from the restraints of matchmaking.
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Dbd was fun while it was casual.
If you are good, you get high MMR, which means you go against top players.. which means games are gonna be unfun because the devs balance around casuals.
So don't get good I guess.
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I don't know why they didn't just use the pip system as a baseline for MMR.
1 pip gets you 15 MMR, 2 pips get you 30 MMR, -1 pips loses 15 MMR and 0 pips is 0 MMR.
At least that way MMR is somewhat based on the personal skill of each player and not just totally random conditions like escaping and getting 1k's.
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Honestly, my experience has been that MMR sometimes gives me better matches than I used to get before, often gives me matches that are just as bad, and hasn't really given me matches that are worse. So, there are higher highs, and the lows are still the same.
The one thing I agree with, though, is that my experience was much better during the first couple of weeks after the MMR launched, and then it gradually got worse.
I am kind of curious about whether the system is polarizing people by rapidly moving them up or down instead of spreading them out across the whole scope of the MMR. Like, I wonder if everyone is clustered at either the top or the bottom.
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I've not enjoyed the game as much since MMR has been added. I've hardly played any killer since MMR has been added so I won't comment on their experience (but from what I heard it's pretty bad).
Since I like to play with different friend groups on this game, with massive variations in skill the game has become really unfun. For me it seems to be mainly based off the "win" requirements and how it doesn't include items/add-ons or perks in it's matching.
When I play in my main 4 man team we face Nurses more often than any other killer. Regardless of whether we're playing with a good build or a meme build. If I then play with my real life friends, it feels like the games are slightly tougher but nothing massively different from before.
Solo q is extremely random. Some games I get good killers + good teammates. Whereas others I have terrible teammates vs a good killer. I'm getting teammates who are found in a locker within 30 seconds of the game starting.
I also don't like how when I play with my friends who aren't as good at the game that I'm punished for dying, rather than getting rewarded for the amount of work I put into that those games.
Lobby times from what I've been told have been extremely bad. I haven't been able to play at all really the last month but when I have, it's been 5+ minute wait times.
Tbh is MMR a massive improvement from the previous system? No.
Does it negatively effect me in certain ways? Yes.
I just don't see any real massive improvements it's given us over the previous system.
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Which is 40 2k's. Woah super hard to get. I really don't care how you think MMR works since the data mine video exists. 2k is not breaking even.
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