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How to Deal with Survivors in the Saloon Gallows "untouchable" spot
Every time I see this issue reported mods say it is not bannable because killer can get in the spot but do not say how so I'm posting this so people can see how.
A short video showing how to reach this spot as a killer if survivors are avoiding you by standing on the wagon:
Comments
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This. Where did mods say that? Because this looks like an exploit to me. That'd be like saying the glitched rock formations on Ormond or Yamaoka were legal because the killer could also get up there, and those got patched out soon after.
Post edited by Mandy on1 -
That's not true that IS a bannable offense because it's not easy to get up there and it is abusing a glitch to gain a advantage.
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There's a difference between saying something is legit, and saying something is not bannable.
This falls under the latter. It's not bannable because both sides can get up there. That does not make it legal, as it has been acknowledged as an exploit that will be patched.
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Here is the thread link.
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Wow, that's an absolutely terrible take. How is your average killer player supposed to know how to get up there? I first encountered this from one of my teammates and the poor Nemesis wasted 3 gens trying to get Bill off of the wagon - and that was a ranged killer who could technically get the shot at a very precise angle. Awful decision on BHVR's part. They need to patch this, not sweep it under the rug with a 'well, it's technically possible for the killer to deal with this.'
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There are very few glitches that give you an advantage in this game that the devs ACTUALLY ban for.
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That is I can't get on that wagon no matter how hard I try. That is a exploit because no average player can get up there easily. I was lucky enough to knock them down and they flew off because they were cented too far to one side. I guess that's not reportable if they hold the game hostage too by using that glitch spot too.
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Yeah id tell how to do it because i figured it out myself but i don't wanna get silenced so.
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Looks pretty tricky. I'm not going to waste precious seconds getting that down in the middle of a game.
If someone does this to me, I'll happily AFK in a corner and they can stand up there as long as they want.
Thanks for posting the video though, good that someone has.
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I found out about that last night when an Adam did it to me and still got a 4K because you can vault the window near the spot and swing while your falling to hit them or hit them on top over the railing.
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I like mandy, she does good work often. But holy crap that is an abysmal take
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To be fair its not on her is probably the response she was told to give if asked by the devs.
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I played tonight with trapper and I got a bug. I couldn't set traps...so I decided to go up there and I did it. Meanwhile, the bug left me and I started to set my traps. It's a funny thing, but it can be stupid. Survivors can abuse it.
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yes, the mods did say that reporting people using this spot isnt doing anything because both sides can reach it.
that said, according to them, this is a known bug and there will be a fix to it soonTM.
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it's worth noting that, while Mandy is officially BHVR staff, her job is a community co-ordinator, which essentially is to relay information between the community and the devs, and vice versa (different to community managers). i doubt this was her take, but mostly likely the call of support to not ban.
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That's kinda funny actually when you check out their "Game Rules" section of the forum. Especially if you check out this rule under the "Temporary Bans" subsection:
You will be subject to a temporary ban if you: "Exploit bugs, errors in design, or undocumented features to gain access to what otherwise would not be available or to obtain a competitive advantage"
Since an official employee said it's not reportable or bannable, that means either:
- This spot is an intentional feature now; or
- The devs are starting to create exceptions to their own rules; or
- The devs are refusing to uphold certain rules that are inconvenient to them
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I prefer not to think the devs are so incompetent and uncaring as to show favoritism in their judgement and rules, and prefer to think of them as impartial and fair people. Nor do I want to believe that they're openly shirking their social responsibilities. No company would be that openly terrible, right?
So I guess I can honestly say: "That's not a bug, that's a feature!"
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For those who haven't seen the other thread yet @luvcraft posted a video showing how to get up there a different way as killer. Seems a bit easier then the lunge method.
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Can they at least kill switch the map until it’s fixed?
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I wish they would.
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Who does it benefit?
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According to the rules, you are correct, but reality contradicts you. Behavior doesn't even ban streaming hackers. The only ban-risk is stealing a cosmetic.
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Sounds like the devs just don't give a #########.
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That has been the thing with every single exploitabele spot in the game. Any spot that is reachable by survivors, is reachable by killers.
As for how is your average killer player supposed to know? Same for the average survivor. You learn about it in 1 game, try to figure out how to do it yourself untill you know or untill their teammates have finished the last gen.
If they do keep you hostage, stay there without doing any gens, start recording and send it over to the devs, as hostage keeping IS bannable. Survivors going on there are survivors who arent working on gens, if they remain there, they are literally the least of your worries and the game can still end through EGC. It's not untill it's an active effort by an entire team to keep you hostage that it's bannable.
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FYI below Mandy's first comment in that thread she followed up saying that it's in the queue for a bug fix already.
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None of that is the point. A random player may know or not know how to get into that spot, depending on if they're active in the game's social media. It doesn't matter if the killer knows and the survivor doesn't because the killer needs to be chasing the survivors if they want to win the game, so going into the spot achieves nothing. If both players know how to reach the spot, nothing happens beyond some minor time-wasting trying to get the right path up. But a survivor that goes into a spot a killer doesn't know how to reach is invincible. They cannot progress the game while in that spot, but they are a distraction and they can go into the spot while being chased for an automatic 'haha screw you' button. The killer has to either waste loads of time experimenting (giving the others free gens) or give up whenever the survivor goes there. This is why survivors go into these spots. It is deliberate use of an exploit in the hopes that the other player doesn't know how to deal with it. The purpose typically isn't hostage-taking, it's to win the game through unfair means.
Treating it like it's an intended part of strategy that has fair counterplay is BS. A player usually won't know about this until they encounter the glitch themselves. That's the point. Players can't be expected to know how to handle this. I don't understand why BHVR is chill with players abusing exploits to win as long as it doesn't result in 3-hour long games. Why is 'the game can still end' the bottom line of what's acceptable gameplay? The game could still end when Charlotte could bodyblock survivors in the basement while Victor hunted the ones that weren't, because she'd still come back to clean them up eventually. That didn't make that okay. BHVR should take a stance against it because it's against intended gameplay design and clearly in bad faith. Their current 'eh, whatever, we'll get rid of it eventually' mentality encourages people to find and abuse exploits because the only possible punishment for doing it is having the exploit removed after a month or two of trolling players with it.
Even killswitching the map is better than letting this keep happening.
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I wouldnt doubt it, when breakdown was broken we were all told to stop reporting.
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A survivor going to that spot is a survivor wasting time going up there, not doing anything to progress the game themselves, being effectively a positive factor to the killer. And no, they cant go to that spot mid-chase, it's not a consistent thing. To get up there first try you wouldnt just need to have some very accurate inputs, but also enough distance so you can get up there without getting downed.
Seriously, if a survivor can go to that spot mid-chase, the killer doesnt even need to spend 1 second doing the same thing they saw the survivor do for 5 seconds. Killer hitboxes are larger and they are faster, so its much, MUCH easier for them to reach spots like that. Since it takes killers some time, that means it takes survivors more time on average to get there. The only time you can safely be on that spot is if you werent in chase before. At which point, you just ignore them and go for other people. Giving survivors free gens just to go after a survivor that doesnt do ######### is a mistake on the killer's end.
Thats like downing a survivor on the rooftop of Haddonfield, going for them, knowing they would drop down as soon as you vault the window and then blaming the mechanics that other survivors were capable of doing gens in that meantime. Keep that survivor slugged, go for other survivors instead. Dont blame your own mistakes on gamemechanics when there were plenty of other options. You decided to pick that survivor up, you decided to fall for the bait, while you could have ignored the bait and benefit yourself massively.
I never said it was intended strategy, I simply said that there is a counterplay you can make. And deciding against that counterplay that is heavily in your benefit to go after a useless survivor is simply wasting time and a bad decision. You can waste time going after survivors who dont do ######### later, you have other survivors to chase.
Bubba can still facecamp survivors to death without requiring any skill after his first hook. That has been part of his kit since his introduction 5 years ago, but the game can still end. Slugging survivors and slug camping them with iri head+infantry belt was also in the game for 5 years before it got altered because the game could still end. So kinda a moot point. There were still some plays you could make as a survivor to escape, they were practically impossible, but it still existed, where Twins was capable of downing survivors on the other side of the map while preventing any survivors to be unhooked. Which is not even comparable to the situation. Twins was able to exert pressure while making it impossible to unhook, survivors on that spot cannot exert any pressure.
You're literally making a small annoyance a massive issue, when things like uncleansable hexes existed for years before a killswitch was even implemented(it still happens, maps are still not killswitched, but when it happens to a boon, insta killswitch). This is barely an issue when it comes to gameplay. There are plenty of things you can still do that doesnt involve survivors on top of the cart and leads to your victory. The absolute worst case scenario is 2 survivors being on there and 2 survivors being dead and you trying to figure out what to do, and guess what? You should be able to down them and just slug camp them in that scenario, let them recieve a punishment for using exploits and bleed them to death.
It is not a gamebreaking exploit, it's an annoyance at best. You cant ban people for being annoying.
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Intention is irrelevant, if something is part of the game, it's part of the game whether to devs intended it to be that way or not, it's called emergent gameplay. Is maneuvering yourself into this obscure unintentional position to try and avoid a killer that doesn't know better cheesy? Absolutely. However it is part of the game and you can't really fault players for using everything the game gives them to try and win, kill switch the map until it's fixed sure, but this is absolutely a moment to hate the game and not the player.
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Imagine though, if BHVR fixed the ######### map instead of telling us to rely on a video on how to get the killer there.
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Thank you, sir. You are the hero we need
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Obviously this is an exploit. But, as Killer, you can easily get up there the exact same way Survivors do. You just wiggle your way up from the bottom.
I literally had a Feng and Ace stood up there in the same match, I wiggled my way up as Nemesis and thumped him straight in the jaw lol it wastes time and is obviously an exploit, but it's not like they are untouchable up there
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When I encountered it, I just pretended to care and he stayed up there everytime I went to check on him leaving his team at a 3v1. After everyone was dead and I downed him, he disconnected. I cannot imagine why the type of player to exploit would also be a salty beta. It was such a shock to me.
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