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why is bhvr farming negative reputation?
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Yeah this is going to come down to anecdotes.
Nurse can be fiendishly strong, but is inconsistent from my experience.
Plague is a bit less strong, but more consistent.
Hah! Yes. I'm sure survivor players love them.
The core issues to my mind:
- Killer time is at more of a premium than survivor time, and the fact that they can be relit makes hunting for and snuffing them often feel like the wrong move.
- Being able to stack CoH and Overcome on a single totem allows a coordinated team to essentially have Sprint Burst and Self Care for the cost of 2 slots out of 16, rather than 8.
- The fact that they can project through floors means that, on indoor maps, they can cover a disproportionately huge area with almost no way to reliably find the thing.
- CoH stacks so aggressively with other healing perks that it nullifies attrition based styles and forces certain killers into a narrow set of build choices.
- Pentimento, a perk that a lot of us were excited about not only requires another perk from a different DLC to really function, but is pretty rough against booners.
I'm sure that you have metrics that we don't have access to - but there does seem to be a consensus among killer players that boons are a problem. And this isn't just an echo-chamber effect - even the normally very 'balance neutral' Otzdarva has pointed out how much difficulties they cause certain killers.
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Most of the killer roster is a joke to good (not great just good) swf groups and ddos'ing and cheating don't really impress me, it rather surprises me that the game is still alive.
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Let me rephrase.
Devs don't look at the collected feedback.
It has been obvious for quite a while. Not a single dev that cares would leave the game in such horrendous state where it's basically just about cash grab from newer players.
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They take most of their feedback from their investors
Reasons why many games end up on the crummier side of the line
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Well, seeing how the playerbase has decreased the last two months + the survivors' extremely long queue time in the evening all this to face a semi-baby killers or campers/tunnelers, it's obvious there are no skilled killers around. By "no" i mean that they are few still playing.
This is the result of SBMM and it worsen with the boons...
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What I am saying though is that there is a segment that always seems to speak louder to the point that it is hard to hear and even take the rest of the posts serious.
Many people I have talked to when I tell them that I frequent the forums, you know what their immediate response is? Why are you doing that to yourself?”
Because (even if some of it might be justified) there are a lot of people here who just look forward to complain no matter in what form. What’s worse is you have someone express a different opinion and they are made feel unwelcome.
A lot of the things that are often mentioned here on killer side being “too weak or too strong” I just chuckle because I experience something different.
I love this game and I play both sides and I’ve had to learn both sides to ultimately justify AND modify my opinions. So when I think someone wants to talk about DS being used right at an exit gate to “free” escape, I completely understand the cheesing behind it. However, I also look at the cheesing behind camping that might have been involved with that player and how it is available at the beginning of every match. (As examples) So even if the last hook was a more warranted “camping”. The mechanic doesn’t know that.
On the veteran playerbase, yes I agree. But guess what? The forums’ veteran playerbase is only a segment of the playerbase in it’s entirety, because those same veteran players you speak of have an opinion about the forums and their outrageous opinions, and it doesn’t exactly match up with theirs.
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Both irrelevant to the post you're quote-responding to, and extremely subjective + unprovable.
Are you trolling?
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From the ones I have seen, I would say inexperience and overall lack of knowledge of the game.
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Irrevelent ? Have you even read ? Are you trolling ?
OP was saying that there were many ppl in the community being positive about the boons and in general which is not true because the playerbase is decreasing and i have not face a single skilled killer for weeks now. Last time was 1 month ago against Truetalent and he terribly lost as the game is totally unbalanced.
Unproven ?
Ye, playerbase is increasing, it even skyrocket you are right. For the record, a new chapter is out, where is the huge peak of players coming back ? Ah ye, nowhere.
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Lets be fair here,
99% of Twitter is negative.
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Those things aren't connected?? The point is "not everyone is negative about boons" and you're talking about the existence of skilled players in the playerbase, those two things aren't connected. I suppose the point you're trying to make here is that skilled killers must necessarily be negative about boons, but I can hardly assume you mean things you aren't saying and that still wouldn't actually affect the fact that the comment here is about the community at large.
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real and true
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I don't talk about the existence of skilled players in the playerbase i talk about the fact that all experienced killers have left because of SBMM + boons.
That's crazy how ppl interpret everything to their liking just to try to cancel a valuable argument.
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But- okay. As plainly as you can, if you don't mind: What relevance does that have here? How does "there are no experienced killers left" even relate to "not everyone is negative about boons", let alone counter it?
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I will explain as it seems you cannot put some links between events.
SBMM released -> many complaints -> huge playerbase drop after 2 weeks
Boon totems -> many complaints -> playerbase decreased even more
Before that i always faced good killers, not all the time but most of the time. Now i only face killers that do 1k most of the time.
SBMM release date : 8th September. Peak players was 71k. One month later, peak players was 55k.
Boon totems release date : 19th October. Peak players was 70k again as the update brought many curious players. 1 month later, peak = 50k. And last week it's the first time for years now that we barely reached 48k during the evening...
Before the boon totems release, survivor queue were fast, now they are pretty long. If you don't see the links between those events, i cannot help you, it's pretty obvious of what is happening right now.
When many streamers are making videos to explain how disgusted they are about the SBMM and the boons, it's concerning. You don't see it ? Fine for you. What can i say ? urn on your computer's screen and go check some info on youtube, reddit, twitter etc...
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Alright, I'm following you! I see where all of the things you're saying connect, I get it. Experienced killers are leaving because of SBMM and boon totems, I'm with you. All of that makes sense.
What I'm missing is how that concept connects to what we're talking about. We're talking about the fact that not everyone is negative about boon totems, how does that connect to experienced killers leaving?
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If many killers are stopping to play because of boons, it means they are massively negative about boons.
Then only camper/tunneler/average killers remain, resulting in longer queue times for survivors, that are then bored and also stop to play.
All this because of boons.
It has all started with the SBMM, boons just made everything worse.
So yes, the majority of the playerbase that play killer or both sides are negative about boons, everywhere, here, on reddit, on youtube, on twitter and even on Twitch etc... As the devs don't listen, players are quitting.
And the subject of the discussion is not about "being negative towards boons", it is about :
- the game being unfair/unfun
- BHVR not listening to the community feedback
- DDOS/Cheating problem
- Controversial game changes
Just check the 1st OP post....
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I wonder what they did with Deathsligner feedback from PTB...
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I'm sure they will talk their way out of that by saying "Not all deathslinger feedback was negative"... Oh wait they already kinda did say that. That is how they justify their pure negligence.
They need to start listening to top streamers as they know their game better than BHVR does themselves. And by a long stretch at that too! Otzdarva, Tru3talent, coconut, Dowsey, just to name a few. While Tru3talent is one of the more negative Nancys among those, that much is true, but 90% of what he says is based on facts. And the vast majority of killers feels exactly the same. As in it is simply no fun to play killer anymore, has not been for a long time now.
PS: Mandy, I have played both sides equally since 2016 release. So don't give people like us BS that we only 'see one side'.
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Personally I find myself playing less and less. I think it's wrong to say that player feedback is ignored. Rather, player feedback is collected, given to the devs, then dismissed.
The reception to boons has been overwhelmingly negative. They dictate how the entire game plays, they were obviously ridiculous from the PTB, and received the tiniest slap on the wrist nerf. Now we've had over a month of them and they're still overwhelmingly dictating how the match plays, and the new chapter completely ignored any opportunity to change them.
It's untrue to say there hasn't been some positive feedback for them, but in my experiences on both the forums and reddit, almost all positive feedback I've seen has either been "I love boons because they're so strong that they win me the game," or "######### YOU KILLERS WHO TOLD ME TO DO BONES, SUFFER THROUGH BOONS!!1!"
Most players are also very aware that the balance team struggles to make restrained decisions as soon as any survivor uses the word "boring." One of the least popular killers who already struggled with terrible map pressure received an onslaught of nerfs that has rendered them not only one of the weakest killers in the game, but just generally unfun to play. It would almost be excusable if not for it being a serious pattern, with Legion still sitting in the dumpster where they were left after their power was eviscerated. Pinhead just lost every add on that was worth using, rendering him one of the most mechanically complex killers in the game with almost no payoff beyond that of a standard M1 killer. Just a simple word of advice guys, change one or two things that people have a problem with. Don't take a list of everything that makes a killer strong, nerf all of them simultaneously, then wonder why everyone is annoyed that you gutted the killer.
Skill-based matchmaking has been a completely abysmal experience. DBD has never been well balanced in a competitive sense. It was nice that you got reset a bit each month, and taking a break meant you could come back and not be curbstomped just for being a bit out of practice. More importantly, the variation of player skill at red ranks meant variations in games. You didn't have to be completely switched-on and tryhard at every moment just to not be stomped every match.
We were promised a system that took literally years of work to build and implement, and what we received was the most basic "kills vs escapes" possible. Anyone who plays more than a week of the game knows that dying or surviving aren't anywhere close to indicative of your skill performance in a match.
I think the most negative part of the experience was that, in trying to pretend it was some sort of radical perfect system, they chose to hide how any of it worked, and only went public with the details after it was all exposed by dataminers anyway. Then in response to the feedback, we got the most condescending, patronising lecture about how "gee, it sure would be nice to actually be judged based on how you performed in a match, but that has too much nuance so we just threw 4 years of a system built to do exactly that out the window and gave you something that doesn't assess your skill AT ALL, and thought we'd get away with it by not telling you how it worked."
That was truly the most disgusted I've been with a dev response to players in any game I've played.
It's very clear to most of us veterans that changes to the game are very catered towards keeping the most casual, underperforming players happy, at the expense of people who've devoted huge amounts of time and money over the years.
It's very clear that balance and fairness to both sides, especially in the case of boons, comes a distant second to making sure that the most recent DLC sells a lot.
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To anyone defending feedback is taken on and looked at.
Cough Console Optimization Cough
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Letts be realistic here,
99% of Behaviour updates are terrible/not working/broken.
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If they only wanted a cash grab we wouldn't be getting updates. Which might i remind this toxic community the updates typically releases on a schedule. One that we can follow even. Why yall acting brand new? How does anyone not understand that if the devs don't make money we have no game. Devs need paid!
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Nah, VHS studio just has drop a few keys, 2000 was the last unofficial number. It's a closed BETA so no one can jump in as he/she wishes.
Decrease started with SBMM and continued with boons. Note that the numbers you have provided are flawed because there has been a free week-end with a huge amount of players testing the game, so those numbers are kind of an overestimation.
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Then what about feedback on the grind for example?
I would guess that there isn't any positive to take from except maybe a little bit 3 years ago when the entity eating parts of the bloodweb was Implemented.
Since then nothing has happen other than new characters and a plethora of new perks being added.
Most other online games have a price decay for earnable in-game stuff like characters in league of legends or rainbow six siege.
But DBD? Nah. 50 characters with 100 perks per side. 5000 perks to grind for, times 3 thanks to perk levels. Maybe not necessary on survivor but if you want to play more than a few killer it gets ridiculous.
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Nah the most disgusting BHVR response was when someone said that the killer gameplay was too frustrating and BHVR answered that it would be better to play another game 😂.
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You clearly believe bhvr are the greatest game designers ever.
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Every killer that doesn't throw the game and farm will be banned within a week.
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I can't believe he actually said that.
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I'm sure they look at feedback but the thing is even if lets say Mandy gives feed back from us the decisions most likely come from the top. So its hard to change the game when other devs don't want to implement it. But hey the statistics show pinhead performing but nurse is not. Should we buff nurse?
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Where on earth are you getting that from the post you're responding to?
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Terrible for not implementing popular change. Why shouldn't they think of popular demand might actually make the game survive longer
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I've seen what some of the popular ideas among the community are. They aren't all good, and a lot of them would be dramatically bad.
BVHR's competence or lack thereof literally isn't relevant, it's the fact that a bunch of people who happen to enjoy the same game aren't game designers and their ideas aren't automatically good.
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Most other game devs listen to their communities popular ideas. Them games have been going for years. This game I give max 2 more years thd state its in right now.
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There is no way that's true. Maybe smaller games, but bigger games definitely don't.
Regardless of if it works elsewhere, I repeat: I've seen what this community's ideas are, so it wouldn't work here.
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cash grab is not about not getting an update, it's about not getting a proper one
gameplay updates overall are extremely small with minimal changes and most importantly minimal good changes
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Yes, but even you acknowledge it needs some changes. NOTHING has been changed and they are on record saying boons are not game changing enough to require a limitation.
They are the most game changing thing to enter the game as of yet. They have single handedly deleted entire playstyles and have pushed forward the tunnel and camp meta going on.
Why bother injuring a survivor when they will just heal up at no cost to gen time or use of their med kit?
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Didn't they say that specifically in regards to making them one-use? I'm pretty sure they're still open to putting some limitations on boon totems, they just (correctly) don't want to make them into survivor hexes when their design is so much more interesting than that.
Though, while it was poor phrasing and they should've said it differently, it's worth mentioning that what you're talking about isn't the result of boon totems- it's the result of Circle of Healing specifically. The others are fine- Shadow Step is annoying but pretty easily played around, and Exponential is honestly kind of trash.
It's important to remember that CoH can be changed without nuking the core mechanic of boon totems.
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DBD youtube account should have like a podcast or similar one hour every 1 or 2 weeks with one of you guys and 2-3 popular youtubers or something like that just talking about maps, perks etc etc. Players would love to see something like that and the channel would get views and stuff win win for everyone.
Then someone could tell you about his or her Trapper game on the new map and trying to hide traps in the sand 🤔😅
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Unfortunately you now have survivors saying "What do you mean my Que times are still instant" when ever I see that I know that there is some kind of falsehood going on. O matter what time I play Que times have been around 8-12 mins while killer is instant.
Now with the lower amount of killers the SBMM is broken because now it's trying to pair Survivors with the closest Killer even though the Survivors could be MMR of 8000 while the killer is only like 1000. I lost 20 games in a row before with no kills and only a handful of hooks and still got way more "skilled" survivors.
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No Boons need a nuking.....dont forget there are still around 11 or 12 more Boons set to come out.....and currently we have Superfast Heals with a free Self Mend, a full Scratch and Aura blocker, and now a forever Unbreakable. All of which can be stacked on top of each other on one single totem and can never get rid of it. I'm afraid of what else they will bring out......sadly I can see them making a DS Boon.....a faster wiggle free boon.....something to block the exhausted status......there is only so much you can use on them.....and so far they are using normal perks and adding other effects to it....
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11 or 12? Where are you getting that number from...?
Anyway, as I said, Shadow Step is annoying but nowhere near brokenly strong, and Exponential is so situational that I'd honestly be surprised if I ever see it activate in a game. They aren't that strong and are far more balanced, though the mechanic itself could still do with a little work- there are too many totem spots that the killer has to invest too much time to snuff, for instance.
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Agreed. Nuke the Boons! Don't let the game turn into cartoon or The Benny Hill Show.
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When they first were introduced and talked about they said the number of boons that were planned to come out I just can't think for the life of me the number that was said.
That was one of the issues people had when they were introducing Makela and the new Boon System.
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They said they had a certain number of possible ideas that may or may not ever get made, is that what you're thinking of?
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Out of curiosity, if feedback is being listened to, passed on and acted on, what is being done about the hacker problem on DBD and what is being done about console optimization? There is a new cheat program running around that has not been dealt with, and the problems regarding console have not been truly addressed for years, despite many, many complaints and popular topics from users like @Pulsar .
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Now when I said they need a nuking I ment that they needed a core rework because I like the idea of Boons but they in my opinion were no thought out.
• We have Unsnuffable or hard to Snuff Boon locations on almost every map.
• Boons are harder to find than people say and if it's a indoor map with multiple floors trying to find it is worse.
• As above multiple floors also bring the issue that Boons can affect different floors making it rather broken.
• Boons are like original Undying but much worse as Killers can't permanently get rid of them unless you kill the Survivor/s with them.
• Killers dont have time to waste searching for them with the current state of Gen Speed, Map Size, and General Regress. So this results Survivors putting Booms up in No Mans Land with no Gens.
• The affected area size is still rather large because a prime example of this is on Ormand if a Survivor places a Boon on the totems upstairs it affects the entire building and part of the outside depending where it was placed.
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No they gave a hard number but for the life of me I can't find where it was said because I dont tend to save things like that normally. And brain is not working because all the mandatory OT I have been working lately.
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That's what I'm saying- I'm pretty sure they gave a number of ideas they had, in relation to talking about how they don't have anything they're definitely going to make yet.
Either way, the rest of the points stand.
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Cheating doesn't exist dont you know that's all a normal game mechanic like with glitched map areas where a Survivors can get and become unhittable or can't be picked up but wait because technically a Killer can get up there then it's not a issue no matter how hard it is to get up there.
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