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Why is the other Sides FUN such a big thing in bdb
Before I start I know this is a emotional topic for some people but I would love if we can discuss this normal and calm.
So when ever I see a tipoc about campig/tunneling/swf/genrush what ever many people try to argue that you have to think how unfun it is for the other side and that kinda irritates me. I played many games in my life starting from good old unreal tournament and wow and lol to dbd and New World atm. One thing that all this games have in common is a pvp aspect but never have I seen a community so invested in discussions about fun of the other side.
Why is that such a big thing here? I don't think the sniper in shooters think about the fun of there enemy when he picks them of out of a Hugh distance and the can't do ######### about it.
I have never seen someone demanding you build weaker items in lol so your enemy has a better time.
And to make this clear am I a big fan of face camping and hard tunneling from the hook? No I find it boring to do but it can help you win. (whatever you count as a win as killer) and the same goes for swf, meta builds and so on
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Probably because it’s asymmetrical. Most asymmetrical games are very easy to make unfun if one side plays in a specific way and this isn’t like COD where I could just switch to the weapon they’re using
Post edited by Phasmamain on9 -
In FPS games you both have same chance, you can do exactly same thing and let's be honest, it's not like you are happy to get sniped on 400m, you just can't do anything about it, but mainly you just died and you move on next game in few seconds.
I can torture you for a long time in DBD. Both sides have options to make it very unfun and mainly: you can hold hostage too. You just make it way worse and for longer.
It's also asymmetrical game. You actually need players on both sides to have fun, so they keep playing and your queues are not super long.
You rage quit while playing Warzone? Noone gives a #########. When there is only one side, it's just easier to get players, you need to focus on only one group. That's problem with asymmetrical games, you need two different groups and both need to have fun.
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Okey to be fair fps isn't my genre but when I think about wow battlegrounds for example there gear and class can make it so you can't win but nobody says hey the hunter should only use two abilities
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Because each side has a certain amount of input that can define the match as being fun or not for the other side.
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There are classes in battlegrounds?
Whatever, it's still only one group.
I mean, noone is happy when there is OP thing in game. Warzone not long time ago released MG82 and that was super broken and noone wanted it to stay there, because it wasn't fun to play against it, see?
It's not just dbd thing. Difference is that in those games, everyplayer is kinda on same side, which is just not true for DBD.
Killers want to have fun and survivors want to have fun. Where their ideas to have fun usually clash hard.
Head-on builds SWF for example is super fun for survivors, I can assure you it's not fun for a killer. What is worst, it doesn't end, you need to slowly kill them while gettings stunned for several minutes. They will never finish gens.
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The head on example is really good had to face those guys more the I like.
I just think every body is entitled to there fun cause games should be fun but since I can't do anything about the survs deciding to do a head on build for example I just ensure I have fun you know what I mean
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This is an asymmetrical game, it is not like other games, and if one side isn't having fun that is very bad for the health of the game.
I one person playing killer isn't ever having fun and switches to survivor (or leaves the game), it creates an imbalance. If more people start switching, then you have a growing imbalance, and at some point you have one hour survivor queue times and eventually, no game.
So yeah, even if you are a survivor main who never plays killer, you have a stake in the killer's experience. And vice versa.
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Yeah, both sides want to have fun.
You want to have fun while playing the game. That's just normal thing.
Major difference:
There is something broken in Warzone: everyone is going to talk ######### against devs, not players using it
There is something broken in DBD: Most players are going to talk ######### against players using it instead, because it's not one group for whole game, it's one group against another group and they don't leave this mindset in game.
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Yeah but you will always have players abusing broken stuff even when the community is against it and that is a problem in itself.
Let's take tunneling for example survs are complaining that it's unfun cause they don't get to play even tho survs always say chase is the most fun part of the game but getting stomped with 0 kills is likewise unfun so should it be the killers concern?
If the game has loads of unbalanced stuff wich dbd definitely has the devs need to work on it so everyone can have an equal amount of fun games and of games they lose but I think it's impossible to demand that the players keep the fun in check cause everyone has a difrenr view on what is real fun
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But is the fact that it's asymmetrical not the whole reason it will never be that every body has fun cause if all survs have fun and escape the killer has none and it's the other way around if the killer is having a blast killing everybody no surv has fun in the moment I have the fealing that killer needs stand behind because they are only one person so if you want to see it like that it's logical to cater to the survs cause they are four times the amount of satisfied players if they can have fun 80% of there games.
I think that's the reason why killers get into high mmr faster and why unbalanced strong stuff like coh isn't work on asap and why the general sbmm is just busted but true that's affecting survs to
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As long as you play the game and do the objective your side has(ie: survivor: do gens and eascape with most of your team, killer: don't let the survivors eacape and sacrafice them) then who cares how you play and accomplish that goal?
People will conplain no matter how you play or what playstyle you have. That's just games in general.
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This is how I feel every single time I see a thread saying "That killer is no fun to verse. Their power is too oppressive".
Like, it is not supposed to be fun to have a Killer use their power on you. They are trying to kill you and it is supposed to be oppressive.
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I will tell you in a different way, I'm using apex legends as an example.
Before this current update if you hated the Lstar and Eva you can just pick it up and use them, unlike dbd where it tends to be different stuff all around.
Before in like 2018 there were community rules like no infinite abuse and such, people actually sandbag survivors who were abusing broken stuff, not anymore
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Well said.
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We have done similar things before Evolve died for good. I miss that game...
That's kinda a thing when you keep playing with same people over and over again, we just learned players abusing broken stuff and well, we did same :D
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I am of the opinion that it is the devs' responsibility to make sure the game is fun for both sides. Players only work with what they're given.
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There’s two types of “not fun” complaints, one being more valid than the other
- A few things in DbD’s design are inherently annoying or boring. For example I don’t enjoy playing survivor because 1/3 of the game is spent lying on the ground or being on a hook doing nothing. Or I don’t enjoy playing Nurse because I can’t stand staring at my feet half the match. If I complain about those things not being fun, I’m saying I wish the devs had designed them differently and it’s why I don’t play them.
- Some people complain opponents are doing something wrong when they “tunnel or camp or hide, etc” because it’s “not fun”. Those complaints are mainly just sour grapes from sore losing. I’ve had survivors complain that I was doing something wrong for “camping the gens”, and that I “tunneled” them after a 12 hook game with Legion, for instance. Blaming the opponent for just playing the game and trying to win just comes across to me as sour grapes. Yeah, losing is “less fun” than winning, but learn to lose with some dignity.
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My guess it's because of 4v1.
The killer can experience imbalance things in front of 4 players if he is less good than them. And if it's reversed, 2-3 players can complain about the killer's performance. they can say "We're four people and can not defeat one player?"
It's always a loop of arguments about which side is "right".
In similar games survivors have an ability to kill the killer but in DBD players are complaining about some stuff that ruin their fun, but if we are honest, playstyle is way better than having 4 men killing sole player.
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A few things.
- I played UT and UT2004 way back when (let's not mention 2003) and if you were straight up being a butt, whichever server you were on would probably remove you. A lot of them had house rules to ensure that things were fun for everyone, some - for example - had 'no spawn/item camping' rules. Others were more of a wild west.
- Multiplayer was quite different back in the day, as communities were much smaller even for popular games and automated matchmaking wasn't really a thing yet (instead you'd generally host or join servers/lobbies). If you got known as a BM player, people could just choose not to play with you. Communities were self policing and you had the tools to exclude/avoid people who played in a manner you didn't like.
- Gaming has evolved from a niche hobby into the mainstream, and automated matchmaking has become the norm. It's something a lot of us old-timers have problems with as we are used to these smaller communities where all the veterans knew each other.
Basically, it all depends on the individual now. Honor system and all that. It comes down to recognizing that the other side are also human beings and that a game which is fun for both sides is better for everyone. Personally, I play in a manner reflective of my opponents. If you are playing chill, I'll play chill. If you want to bring a sweatsquad, I'm going to tunnel like a demon.
This game also has a lot of imbalances, particularly in terms of maps, and bringing a strong SWF with a Badham map offering is the equivalent of spawn camping when you are already a top tier player. It's...just a crappy thing to do.
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If the other side doesn't have fun consistently they stop playing. That's unhealthy for the game and kills the game if it becomes too widespread.
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This game also for some reason gives people a big head like they think they're the best to ever do it or the first to ever try something, I hate that about this game once you play for so long you no longer care about that stuff but it's super annoying because everyone has an excuse or an attitude about a perk or strategy they lost against in their mind they played perfect and the game is broken not anything they could've done and being unable to accept a loss is absolutely ridiculous, I 4kd as wraith yesterday I was running serpent and shadow dance add ONS and they said wraith was cheap and op and that I need to get good and play a different killer, I'm already one of the lower tier killers what more do they want? Should I do the gens too so they can feel like they're a god at the game? Then they went on to say I was bad when only 3 gens were completed when they died, I use to enjoy the salt but now sore losers just get on my nerves.
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Yeah, it's annoying when it's not actually salt, but they are just that dumb...
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Theres a difference between one side not having fun in a match vs. one side gong out of their way to make the match as miserable for the other side as possible for no real benefit.
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That's not just in this game, that's just human psychology period for a lot of people in general. You see the same thing in LOL, COD, Quake, Soldier of Fortune and Castle Wolfenstein back in the day, etc. It's a mindset that is just pervasive in PVP gaming in general.
Youtube is filled with many videos of people complaining about LOL builds that take the fun out of the game and should be rebalanced.
The difference is as others have stated, in all of those games you're starting from a place that's for the most part even and more importantly I'd like to add that a lot of those other games have other modes of play for people who aren't super serious players or modes you can play that are designed to give players a break from the stress serious play brings.
Most Asymmetrical games push all the benefits of team play to one side and in most PVP games team play is something everyone regardless of side has access to in addition to usually the same tool set. DBD is always going to be more "Fun" for the side that can opt to just play with their friends they already have or make through playing survivor. Killer is by its very nature solitary and the "Fun" is directly linked to whether or not you can gets hooks, Kills, Moris. When doing those things becomes more stressful than rewarding they stop being "Fun".
It's also just harder for killers to joke around because they are human just like survivors are human and carry game related baggage from match to match. If a team comes into match and they were just tunneled or camped to death they usually take it out on the next killer. This game IS NOT FUN for them at this point. So the killer gets to deal with people playing in ways that make it exceptionally difficult to try and play in a more relaxed manner. Then killers take that frustration out on the next set of survivors they get.
Both sides are made to feel responsible for the providing the "Fun" of the game for one another rather than the game itself just being "Fun" for both sides to start with. DBD is a game where in a lot of ways you're expected to either make your own fun or someone else's fun rather than just being fun, full stop.
People complain more about what happens in this game because its the only thing that can happen in this game. DBD is not feature rich, it is one of the most limited games in terms of how you get to interact with it. People have been asking for different ways to play DBD for years so that people could potentially find ways to play that are fun. Everything from 2v8 to just making a Casual queue and Ranked queue so people who want a more pure competitive setting can play that and those looking for more relaxed settings can have that space.
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