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Developer survivor bias.
So after playing this game for near 800 hours, alot of which has been killer but I've played a few hundred hours of survivor including SWF/Solo queing and I have to say it's pretty clear now that the devs of this game have a huge bias toward the survivor base.
First off look at the massive difference in attaining the adept achievements, I've spent 2 days trying to get adept on bubba. Literally a tiny bit off double pip and 3 red emblems in FOUR Games wasn't enough to get the adept and yet survivors can just hide all game and escape at the end easily for an adept. It's a complete and utter joke and a real mess.
Next you have the recent addition of boon totems which almost negates slugging completely as they can simply run off and heal and rinse/repeat. Also thanks to boons you find bodyblocking at higher ranks far more common which is sickening to see.
The fact that DS still hasn't been nerfed again as well is astounding because all you see is people abusing it and literally getting in the killers face after being hooked because they feel safe with it then the moment the DS is used up their team comes to body block for them.
Add to all of this the all round really bad state of the game such as things like bad map design, bad loops that are always survivor sided, constant flashlights every time someone is downed it really doesn't paint a good picture for killers or the state of the game.
Maybe it's slightly dramatic but I really don't see any other avenue for this game other than it slowly dying off because of many experienced kilelr mains simply quitting or becoming survivor mains.
Perhaps the worst part of it all is the devs have been told hundred if not thousands of times about this issue and it's been ignored or blame averted back to the person that's trying to give them feedback.
How these guys designed such a game is actually beyond me considering they don't know the first thing about balancing tbh, it really is quite sad.
Anyway, I really do hope the game continues to succeed but the only way it will in the long term is fi the get their heads out of the sand and start fixing some of the major killer issues and start fixing how broken survivor actually is.
Comments
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It's not that deep.
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I'm not sure what your problem with bodyblocking and flashlights are- those are good things, survivors doing that are not doing generators and are actively putting themselves in harm's way by trying to get up close to you. Those aren't problems with the state of the game, they're just a part of the game, and a part that you can absolutely play around!
Also, DS doesn't... need to be nerfed again? It's in a pretty healthy spot right now, the only way to use it actively is to do as you described, waste time buzzing around the killer, which again- that's good for you, as the killer. That survivor is not progressing the game and you can very much just ignore them, or down them and make them waste an Unbreakable or get someone to heal them, thus dragging someone else off generators.
Some of the stuff you raised is a problem, though. Boons need looking at (though... not because of Exponential, that perk is pretty weak), there are some pretty awful map designs, and killer Adept achievements are definitely harder than survivor Adepts for basically no reason, so I agree those should be fixed.
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1) A double pip should score your adept. If it doesn't double check your perks or report it as a bug.
2) Boons aren't a problem. Circle of Healing needs to be nuked from orbit, yes, however the actual mechanic itself just needs a few tweaks.
3) If you can't counter DS idk what to tell you... It deactivates if the survivor has done anything productive for the team so if they're trying to flaunt it just ignore them?? And they'll be deadweight for 60 seconds. If that happens more than once in a game you've practically won. Literally go for someone else that hasn't just been hooked and 99/100 times you'll have completely avoided it (the other 1 time it'll be so obvious they have DS you can just slug them). DS is actually in an incredibly good spot balance wise, with it's strongest effect actually happening when nobody is using the perk.
4) Flashlights? Literally look at a wall when you're picking up, or do this really novel thing where you use your eyes and movement to look around before picking up.
5) Maps I agree a lot of them need serious redesign, especially the recent ones, or recent killer powers need a redesign to add in mobility to their kits.
6) People have been saying this game is dying since 2016. And 2017. And 2018. And 2019. And-
My point is that until player counts reach dangerously low levels consistently (ie it's not because of all the new games releasing in December so people can use their holiday money to buy and play them) then saying the game is dying holds about as much merit as me saying I've won the Olympics.
For the record, haven't done that one.
7) It actually depends. A lot of the feedback isn't "Hey so I feel like this could be changed because it's really OP and really not fun and makes everything hell on earth to play"- it's a lot more like "FIRE EVERYONE AT THE STUDIO YOU CAN'T CODE YOU CAN'T LISTEN NOBODY LOVES YOU I HOPE YOU ALL DIE". Pretty major difference and I hope you see why the latter is not the best option. Factor in feedback from others who enjoy the feature and it's a minor cluster ######### because you will never make everyone happy in this playerbase.
Anyway this game's been around 5 and a half years, I don't see how that isn't long term at this point considering original plan was a couple months before it died.
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Even this would be a better topic..
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I don't think they are intentionally Survivor-biased.
But there is no way Circle of Healing should have ever made it to the PTB, much less to live.
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Whilst I could pick apart every single point in this reponse with relative ease I'm not going to. All I will leave you with is this, if they have been told about these issues thousands of times by people then like it or not there is an issue because if you aren't willing to adjust things based on those that are having a difficult time then you're failing your player base because it's not like we're talking about a small minority of people saying this, it's actually alot of players albeit mostly killers but you can't just simply ignore that just because you see it differently. The game is broken and has been broken for ages.
Also on the topic of adept if you bothered to read what I said properly you'd see I didn't double pip and that wasn't what I was saying at all. I was only pointing out that it's a biased achievement system because even if you 4k as killer it still doesn't guarantee you adept. I had four games that I ended up with 3 iridiscent emblems but it didn't get me adept. That's a total joke.
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"I could do this but I won't" simply tells me you can't.
"Also on the topic of adept if you bothered to read what I said properly you'd see I didn't double pip and that wasn't what I was saying at all."
Your original post contained a typo that did not say "A tiny bit off a double pip" but "A tiny but of a double pip". You can see the reasoning behind my confusion, I'm sure?
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If you're the type to pick out a spelling mistake of one letter then I don't know what to tell you. Anyone who's been playing the game for more than a day knows how broken the adept system actually is and that was my point.
And since you think I can't, happy to tell you I can.
- My point regardless of a spelling mistake was a 4k should be more than enough to give a killer an adept achieve considering how disgustingly easy it is to obtain as a survivor.
- If circle of healing is a problem then boons ARE a problem, you can't have one without the other. Pretty simply tbh.
- It's not about DS deactivating, it's about the simply fact that the survivor that has DS up runs along side a killer and bodyblocks for the person that you're trying to chase because they know they're safe in either being downed and triggering DS or the killer slugging them and giving their teamate an opporunity to get some distance which is abusing it, that's just a fact.
- You think I don't look at a wall when picking someone up? Do you think I'm just some 10 hour fresh killer or something? I've picked someone up while looking into a wall or locker and been flashlighted from either side or I've been flashlighted from the front and gone to turn around only to have another sweaty survivor flashlighting me from the other side too. Don't act like it's a simple thing to avoid when it isn't against good teams.
- Maps being a problem feeds into the larger issue of killers being so weak, the fact that maps haven't been changed in like ever is a major issue in itself.
- It doesn't matter what people have been saying before, the reality is experienced killers are dropping off this game to either play other games or play survivor which is never a good thing. Dunno if you've seen the youtube video of the dev Cote suggesting to the guy that was complaining about killers back in 2018 to go play Civ or play survivor but if you haven't I recommend watching that Q&A session. It truly highlights how out of touch with their comunity they really are.
- Doesn't matter what the feedback is, they can ignore the abusive and not constructive feedback but the reality is they are ignoring feedback that they think isn't relevant when it's extremely relevant but continue to keep pushing it aside time and time again.
In summary I realise that none of the issues i've mentioned here are simple fixes but the fact that they continue to ignore major issues in terms of balancing and bugs in this game is pretty scary tbh.
And before you go saying I'm a killer main or I'm biased etc, I believe noed should be removed from the game because it 's a toxic perk that gives ######### killers the ability to get a 1k or 2k when they don't deserve it.
I like the way the game works but after investing hundreds of hours into it to simply get ######### on at higher ranks and tbagged at every turn isn't fun. I don't know how much killer you've actually played but if you find that fun then good on you this is a great game for you.
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It's not so much Survivor bias as it is incompetence. No hate to the devs, it's just that they are really out of touch with the current game
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Regardless of what it is it's simply bad. Incompetence or bias it doesn't really matter.
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I know this wasn't directed at me specifically, but hey, public forum and I feel like I have something constructive to add. I want to hit on three things briefly-
Boons are a perk type, like Hexes or Exhaustion. Circle of Healing can be a problem independent of the perk type that it is, and that's exactly what's happening here. You say here you think NOED is a problem, so the equivalent would be saying that Hexes are a problem because one perk within that type is a problem.
Maps do get changed, to be fair. Sometimes the changes are bad, sometimes they're good, but maps do get changed.
Cote was just right in that interview, it's not a good indication that the devs aren't listening. In fact, it seems really obvious to me that they are listening, considering how many things the community gives feedback on that do get changed- a more fair criticism may be that they're too slow, but that's a different criticism so pivoting to it doesn't disprove what I'm saying right now.
...Oh, I guess minor point, but fourth thing: I don't think survivor adepts are too easy, I think that's how adepts should work- just achieve your win condition with those three perks equipped. Killer adepts are too hard, that's the problem. Probably splitting hairs on that point, though.
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Going to be honest, I stopped reading after the part about nerfing DS again..
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It does matter, as Survivor bias would mean that no harm was ever done to the Survivor side, which is a pure lie. There's been nerfs to Survivors, buffs to Killers, reworks of mechanics to be more fair, etc.
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Not that streamers dictate or speak for the community but with a number of them shifting purely to survivor it can't be good for the game.
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"If you're the type to pick out a spelling mistake of one letter then I don't know what to tell you."
Usually I'm not, but when it changes the entire context of the sentence then yes I will base my assumption off of the typo because to do otherwise would change what your original comment was saying, which would be weird.
2) Shadow Step is average and Exponential is mediocre at best. There are two other boon perks in the game, you absolutely can have one without the other.
3) SLUG THEM??? Literally down the survivor and chase someone else there is now another survivor who needs to come heal them off of the ground if they don't have Unbreakable (and if they do they've just wasted it instead of using it in a situation they'd need it in later) so only 1 person is on gens and you've just slowed the match down massively congratulations!!
4) If you're flahslighted from the side while looking at a flat wall you're not looking at the wall, you're looking slightly off of the wall. Alternatively again just look around before pickup or use a perk to counter items it really isn't that difficult. And from your original post it really did seem like you were either new or very very biased, yes.
5) We literally agree on this point um?
6) Yes because when I think of modern examples of how the devs are out of touch, I don't use things from 2021, or 2020, no I use one clip from 2018 because that'll show em!!
7) Where's your proof they're flat out ignoring feedback because like there's been changes based on community feedback for a while now 🧍
Like no offence but you just... Are biased intrinsically. You admit you play more killer than survivor and therefore your opinions are far more lilkely to be in the killer's favour, just like how mine are more likely to be in the survivor's favour because I spent 2 years exclusively maining survivor and another 2 years trying to play catchup. It's just a part of human nature to be biased, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just there.
It's when you get the extreme cases like "Killer mains are morally superior to survivor mains" that we start having issues.
There are game problems on both sides. Hackers, maps, camping and match speeds, to name a few. There is absolutely work to be done, and work to be done for both sides, but I just don't think your points are necessarily the right ones (of course, that's entirely my opinion and you are completely entitled to your own). The best we can do is just provide the feedback (in the right section, of course) and wait until action is taken- because what you think is a problem I don't, and vice versa, so massive amounts of conflicting feedback probably feed into the length of time it takes to make changes.
And I'm not defending the time it takes- please don't take this as me doing so. Imo it takes them far too long (4 years for a change to Object?? Really?!), but to say they don't listen to feedback isn't exactly... Correct, I guess?
Sorry, btw, if my original post came off as hostile, I'd woken up like 5 minute prior and was very tired lmao.
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Its better to please 4 than 1, if u know what i mean.
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Sure you say that, then I end up getting a call from my mother about how she's disappointed and didn't raise me to act like that 😉
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First off it's pretty common sense to assume that I was saying the adept system is stupid on the killer side and not whatever else you were assuming I was saying but whatever that's a non issue now
- Shadowstep is also extremely strong and also needs changes, I'm not sure what games you're playing in where you think it's average but the teams I play against manage to literally escape on some of the darker maps thanks to that boon and iron will combined so that's a pretty bad point.
- Did you read what I said about slugging them? It doesn't matter if you do or don't because even if you do they've just bought the person you're chasing plenty of time to create a big gap and considering how quick gen speeds are it really doesn't matter that someone else has to come off a gen to come and heal that person because generally at higher ranks that next person that comes over isn't even on a gen anyway because they always have 2-3 running around to help take protection hits and bodyblock. Honestly it's like you've never actually experienced a high ranked game ever because what you're saying in terms of slugging has little effect unless you can down two of them very quickly which only ever happens if the team you're playing is bad and makes mistakes which is extremely rare.
- I'm telling you I've been flashlighted from the side a few times while looking at a wall so please don't tell me I'm not looking flat at a wall when I was. You weren't in the game playing killer for me so don't assume you know anything. And specific to the last sentence of this point where you said I was either very new or very very biased, if you bothered to actually read the first sentence of what I said then you'd see I'm not new unless you consider 800 hours new then yeah sure I'm "new". And also as for being biased I've literally been playing survivor since MMR was released and it's an absolute breeze and so easy to bully killers it's a joke. The worst thing is it's the most fun you can have in the game and that's sad so don't tell me again that I'm biased because you literally disprove your own point.
- I highlighted that clip from 2018 purely as an example because since then overall what's actually changed? Litereally nothing in terms of the big picture. Sure they'll argue that they've made map changes and reworked certain perks but the harsh reality is the game is still overwhelmingly survivor sided and if you look at that objectively you'll see it. Just look at all the high end streamers that played killer before and that are increasingly switching to survivor in high numbers or think about the decent killers who simply stop playing the game because it isn't fun due to the imbalance. Your argument basically implies that none of these things are issues and that the devs are listening to these things but if they were listening then where are the quality of life changes or gameplay reworks or just anything to improve the killer life?
Look the fact of the matter is they are ignoring these problems and have been for years, I know you think they've made plenty of changes and they have. I'm not disagreeing with you saying that however those changes are too minor when you look at the big picture. I'm really tired of this argument where anyone who has anything remotely negative to say about the state of the game especially from a killer standpoint immediately being called biased despite not knowing a single thing about the person stating their point.
Look at the game objectively and tell me it's not broken and if you can do that then you're not playing the same games at the same level that the killers complaining are playing at. That's just a hard fact.
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800 hours of being a killer main, and basically no gamesense. No problem, there are even people with thousands of hours as killer main and still having no gamesense. But i would hope you would at least try to understand the game mechanics properly.
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People like you are what piss me off more than anything. You literally have no idea and didn't even bother to read what I said clearly. I said I have nearly 800 hours TOTAL mixed with both survivor playing SWF/Solo queing and killer. L2 read or don't post, it's that simple. Until you learn to read your opinion isn't and will never be valid.
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I think the theme should be leaned into more than the difficulty- by that I mean, simply achieving the win condition with just those three perks is plenty, there's no reason for the difficulty to be any higher than the average survivor adept.
Killers should just have to get a 4K, since getting a Merciless Victory is wayyyy too hard for a stock challenge achievement like this- not to mention how the emblem system actively screws over certain killers, making it even harder.
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The notion that the devs are biased is laughable. Survivors and their perks/items have been nerfed tremendously over time. 800 hours is not a lot. You probably have a ton to improve on.
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They probably aren't, but their apparent bias preferring survivor can be seen when comparing similar 2 perks.
Stridor - can be countered by running Iron Will
Iron Will - no counter whatsoever
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This is just a vivid "venting" made by a newbie killer. I have in this game for over 7500 hours and I have been playing this competitively too. While I may agree with a fact, that it's not always balanced as it should, but no, as Survivor you just cannot hide for the whole game and easily escape. Most of the time, you won't get solely carried by your teammates just to assure an escape, because if a one person is hiding, one person is getting chased and eventually will get downed and the two other ones are doing gens, one will eventually need to go for the save which will remarkably slow down the progress of generators and will result in a certain loss, unless the killer doesn't really know that to do.
Achievements DO NOT influence the outcome of the game and they shouldn't be taken in a perspective of getting changed. We are talking about the game balance and if you are solely ranting just about adept, then it's your fault. Bubba is one of the easiest adept you can receive, because of his strong perks.
Your rants here are purely made on survivors not getting nerfed, well, then you certainly don't know the past of this game. Let me introduce you into the past:
- Brand new part have been repeatedly nerfed, previously it was a thing, that could do one very bad thing: genrush
- Instaheals have been nerfed to basically useless state, both (purple one and pink one)
- Decisive Strike, Object of Obsession, they all have been nerfed to a state where they are really bad perks (DS is still powerful, but you can't abuse it unless you are literally being tunneled, while OoO is useless)
- Maps have been tremendously changed to a state, where they are mostly killer-sided
- Shack has been nerfed many times, as well as other powerful loops
- Balanced Landing - insane nerf with erasing passive it had
- Exhaustion perks - they have been nerfed so it no longer recovers while running
- Hatch - this change made keys basically useless without Blood Amber addon
... and I could name them five days how big nerfs survivors have received. Not to mention that solo queue is practically impossible unless you get good teammates and getting a tryharding SWF is very rare. Please, check your facts before doing such a post.
For the last paragraph I'm going to address boon totems - They are NOT broken and they are really good for the health of the game. Why? It gives survivors another objective to deal with, it takes 16 seconds to bless a totem, half more if it's a hex totem, healing costs 16 seconds and if it was hex, the survivor lost 48 seconds, if not, he lost 32 seconds. You can snuff the totem with very short animation and only thing that is questionable is the range and I think that's the only thing that should be sort of adjusted. Besides, boon totems are pretty good addition to the game and I'm a killer main. After their addition, I feel like the games are a lot easier, because I have better map pressure and control.
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So i obviously hit the spot. And sure ive no idea after playing this game for 4 years straight. People like you are the problem of DbD, cause they think they know everything and come to hilarious conclusions without thinking it threw once.
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I genuinely think that the devs don't have any kind of bias one way or the other and just have no idea as to what the ######### they are doing. Plus having a bias would require they actually play their game and we all know they don't or at least not well.
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From an economical stand point it makes for the devs to have a bias toward survivors. 4 wallets vs 1 wallet after all. When they make QoL improvements to killer I can't help but think it is to keep those survivor queues short.
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Those of us that have played since 2016 remember what it was like and understand the game has become easier for the killer role in many ways. There are still improvements to make for sure but it is better than before.
I would recommend frequent breaks between matches and deep breaths before each match. The focus required while playing killer is draining unless you are farming and can affect your mental health.
Regarding killer adepts. Every time a new killer comes out I only play with their perks until I get adept. Eventually, the right map and survivors will come your way. Harder yes but much more satisfying when it happens. Twins were by far the hardest adept for me.
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Holy #########, this made me ugly laugh. Thank you for that!
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Right?
There are posts on here that immediately lose all credibility when they make comments like that.
Makes me think they will just say anything for developer attention.
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Eh...
Bodyblocking is fine 80% of the time. When it's being done in addition to sabos and the like, a coordinated team can make it literally impossible to get hooks on some maps and can use it to stall the game out forever.
This.
I don't think it's quite as severe as some make it out to be, but they definitely treat balancing killers and balancing survivors very differently, and in situations where it's a choice between 'killers have something strong that survivors find annoying' and 'survivors have something crazy that killers find annoying', they'll generally side with the survivors. And yes, it's probably economic considerations, at least somewhat.
I'm not sure what other explanation there could be for actual infinites existing so long after the game's release, stuff like the DDS locker/flashlight thing, CoH or Dead Hard getting buffed.
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You're clearly ignoring several points unintentionally or not. So much so that I am not sure if it's worth arguing here. It's impossible to balance the difficulty to both sides in this game. Yeah adept for killers is more difficult, but so is collecting crowns for survivors during a limited-time event. DS has been nerfed already, now a survivor cannot progress the game without deactivating the perk. Boons are a new addition and need to be rebalanced, but so was Undying and other perks upon release.
The dev team has been more active not only in map balance by removing infinites (the latest being Myer's house in Haddonfield), but also in readjusting perks but of course, hardly anything the other side says is worth noting.
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Same lmfao
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If you bothered to read what I said you'd realise I was using the adept system as an example.
I stopped reading after you said boons are healthy for the game.
I'll give you an example of why they aren't. I had a game a week or so ago where the survivors healed 47 times throughout the game. That isn't balanced regardless of what you say.
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Again if you bothered to read some of my posts you'd know what my argument is.
I'm well aware of the changes they're making to maps and loops but it really isn't enough and the fact it's taken this long to do is an indictment tbh. I realise the game is impossible to balance for both sides but time and time again they are showing that they are moving away from balancing the game in favor of new content. It's plain as day to see this is the direction the games been going for a long time.
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Can tell you guys have never played a high mmr game against a team with 2-3 DS up their sleeve.
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If you bothered to read why I suggested that you'd understand but hey, survivor mains will constanly always look at what people say and think it's not an issue because they're entiteld and it's already been nerfed, classic.
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So, regarding each point you made for this discussion, if you had complete creative control how would you deal with each individual problem?
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The game has never been easier for killers. Change after change after change just makes the game easier for killers. Toolboxes? Irrelevant. Insta Heals? No longer instant. Object of Obsession - actually helps the killer more than the survivor. Decisive Strike? Punishes survivors for playing the game. New Ruin? If you're good at being chased, all your progress is lost because a bad killer put on a perk. Makes the game miserable for solo survivors, but hey, you killer mains love SWFs, right? End Game Collapse literally gives you free kills, and you're all still asking for more. And even if the devs were biased towards survivors, hmm, quick math, they're the overwhelming majority of people who play the game. It would make a whole lot of sense to keep the majority of your player base happy, which is why I keep laughing at how the devs keep making the game worse for survivors, especially solo players.
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I'm not disagreeing with you when it comes to solo survivor queing but that's only some games and it's some games at mid-low mmr.
Against SWF and higher ranked survivor players those experiences are entirely different. Put quite simply there is a large gap between very average survivor players and good survivor players and that gap is what causes alot of the issues I'm talking about.
I understand that solo queing as survivor is frustrating too because I've done it but I've also been on the end fo some games where we absolutely bullied the killer in both SWF and solo que which is literal proof of how the game is at higher ranks.
This is the first game I've seen where it seems to actively punish you for being a high ranked player as a killer because al it is all the time is stress and bad times. I do understand your point of view on solo queing, you aren't wrong but that's just not my experience at higher mmr on both survivor and killer end.
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This.
COH should've never even happened to begin with.
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Can tell you just want ds to just not exist and still complain about it after it's been nerfed into the ground and is pretty balanced right now.
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Back in the day, Killer Adept only required you'd get 32k BP, which was super easy for killers. Survivor adept required escaping, which was substantially harder as NOED wasnt a hex yet and reduced both succesful and missed attacks quite significantly.
So basing it on Adept doesnt really make sense, even nowadays, killers just have to get a double pip. Survivors need to escape, its easier to get adept on all killers, than it is to get adept on all survivors. Especially if you go for adept early on. You could say "just hide all game for adept", but there are multiple outcomes to this: 1. teammates will sell you out for doing nothing. 2. The killer will facecamp you for doing nothing. 3. No one finds you, but gens also never get finished, the killer finds the hatch first and you cannot open the gates in time. 4. survivors DO finish all the gens, but you're still not able to escape since the killer finds you first and teammates have no reason to actually rescue you since you didnt do #########. 5. You do find the hatch first. 6. gens get done AND you escape.
The first 4 options are going to be very common, especially if you plan to do it on all survivors. Back in the 4th year anniversary, I decided to adept all the survivors that could recieve a crown too, getting 2 rewards in 1 go. It took me 5 days, with help from friends who tried to keep the killer away at all costs(since I was the last once who still needed crowns after 4 days).
Killer adepts happened without me even knowing I got them. I already had half the adepts before I tried going for them.
As for DS, it's fine. In fact, the only change I would make, is to have the effect last forever untill you do anything that's related to progression(totems, gens, healing, picking yourself up, mending, being fully healed up, etc). That way, the killer has no real reason to tunnel out a survivor unless they want to eat DS early or long-term slug them. BUT in return fully deactivate DS once the EGC has started. So no more DS in the exitgates. If the infinite effect is too powerful(which I doubt, since it would effectively be a survivor who cant do anything, making chasing any other survivor literally a benefit and forces the survivor with DS to help teammates), simply add a 60 second timer once a generator is finished. It would be a deterrent for killers to chase someone else instead of just tunneling early game, while it would give killers a ton of reasons to slug the survivor after an unhook, then open the exit gate and go for the pick-up without any fear of DS.
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Moris we're nerfed into uselessness in a random patch after twins. Keys for a while ptb month long warning a year after the mori nerf. And there wasn't any crazy key rework that completely changed their mechanics like people said it was going to be.
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- “Boon totems” are fine in general, the only problematic one currently is Circle of Healing. Also they’ll probably be doing Mikaela’s balance pass next midchapter which is when we might see Circle of Healing toned down.
- Decisive Strike already got a major nerf, they made it so you lose Decisive Strike when you work on generators, heal, cleanse, bless, etc. (It used to just last a minute after getting unhooked no matter what you did.)
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Yes DS got a nerf but did you read what I actually said?
After DS activates and this is always the case at higher ranks the person with DS will try and run around with the new survivor that the killer is chasing in the attempt to bodyblock.
Now you might say this is a good thing because that's 1 more survivor off gens but think about it from the perspective of gen speed. High ranked survivors know that they can play like this and attempt to bodyblock because they're aware 1 or 2 other suvivors are doing gens anyway which is more than enough considering how fast gens fly by.
This in itself is where the issue is because to get value out of DS survivors feel like they have to do something while the buff is up which is esentially abusing it. This essentially means that the killer needs to slug that survivor with DS and thus giving the new survivor a chance to gain some distance and potentially escape or bite the bullet and eat the DS.
You may think DS is fine and perhaps for killers that tunnel it's a good thing but it really does give survivor an unfair advantage at higher ranks because it's literally a free hook state. Gens aren't really relevant in this discussion because they go by so quickly anyway so why can people not see how busted that is to be able to freely run around and take protection hits even if it downs you purely because you know your'e safe thanks to DS?
Perhaps it doesn't need to be nerfed but it does need to be reworked because currently it's too easy to abuse for good survivors.
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Glad to hear it
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I did read what you said and was pointing out that using DS as an example of the devs not nerfing survivor perks is incorrect because they did in fact do a major nerf to it from the way it originally worked. I get that you think it’s still a bit too powerful even now, but your paragraph was intended as showing that the decs totally ignored DS which isn’t true.
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Wait a minute, DS still hasn't been nerfed again? They nerfed it not too long ago for like the 4th time, having it deactivate on most actions. What on earth? DS is fine now.
The devs aren't survivor sided. Just because the game isn't too well balanced doesn't mean the devs are survivor sided. They honestly just struggle with the game's balance, that's it.
At lower ranks, the game is arguably killer sided. Unlike high ranks, where it's rather survivor sided. So just "buffing" killers could very easily become a big problem for this game.
And if these devs really were so survivor sided, why on earth would camping and tunneling still be such viable strategies? It's incredibly unfun to go against, especially camping.
And not to forget the fact that killer players do have options to keep up with the strongest survivors if they use their strongest options. Blight, Nurse, Spirit, paired with the best addons and perks.
This game used to be incredibly survivor sided, and I would argue at high ranks, the game still hasn't fully recovered from that. It has come a long way since, though sadly, it has become a bit more survivor sided again recently, because of Circle of Healing, validation, and a few bad map reworks. But that's again just the balance team screwing up.
The fact that people still think the devs have a huge bias towards one side is baffling to me.
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First off while its true spirit, blight, and nurse are the best as of now it still makes it ridiculous that those three are the only viable ones compared to most especially since you have to pay for them. Atm the nerfs and such make getting some dlc completely worthless unless there are one or two perks you really want to get. DS can still be a problem mainly due to the fact the nerf doesn't affect lockers and hook swarming and some people can see bias solely due to the last few months of this game. Pinhead is released revealed to be both an NFT and gets nerfed, Mikaela gets released COH doesn't get touched, Dead Hard getting hit validation, Artist drops gets nerfed, Christmas event drops adds a snowman which can be used as a third health state by survivors and the cosmetics are just standard fair or a joke for killers. While there might have been some nerfs for survivors it changed nothing since the same problems are still here I know it's the same for killers however, so I guess that's the only justification for it atm.
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