Incredibly easy fixes BHVR will probably never implement
CHEATING AND BUGS:
Gen/Hook Pickup failure - Add a .25s exit animation for unhooks and gens so people can't bait the pickup and instead have to commit to the animation or run.
Speedhacks - Add a server-side check system to verify player speed. Essentially checks if a speed-altering perk is currently active and, depending on the result of that check, determines what speed they should be traveling. If it is not a speed normally possible or if their speed boost is retained longer than expected, it kicks them from the match. Doesn't even have to ban them; just an auto-DC would suffice. The same mechanic could be done for gen/heal speeds with very little effort once the initial system is in place.
BALANCE:
BNP - Consumes the toolbox like Anti-Hemo/Styptic, making it essentially the equivalent of using a full Commodious in 5 seconds.
Anti-Hemo/Styptic - Either replaces the ability to use the medkit entirely or requires a certain number of charges to use
NOED - Still has a totem but also a BBQ-like token system, where each hook gives you a stack. Basic attacks consume one stack, and when it reaches zero the exposed status goes away. NOED isn't OP as-is but this would keep it from being the baby killer crutch perk it is often used as. (Otz proposed a similar idea at one point if I recall correctly)
CoH - When the killer snuffs a boon they break the totem. Would also make Pentimento actually work for once, and would make Shadowstep less annoying to deal with on maps like Gideon and RPD without actually hurting it that much on the whole.
Map Offerings - Disabled in SWF. There is no reason you need to be guaranteed Haddonfield on top of already having voice comms.
I'm sure there are plenty more fixes that could be implemented to reduce player frustration in the game, but I think a list like this would honestly be a good starting point to actually making the game consistently fun to play again.
Comments
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Problem with the COH change is it puts shadowstep and exponential in the dirt even though they are balanced. Just nerf COH itself
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As I've stated multiple times, NOED is fine. The rest of the changes are cool
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I disagree there. Nobody ever needs or wants to proc Shadowstep or Exponential more than once or twice, and I think a potential 5 uses is more than enough considering at that point you're just wasting your own time to set it.
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Why does bnp and septic and hemo need a nerf they seem fine
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I agree from a balance standpoint, but I do see the survivor perspective on how annoying it is when you loop a killer for 5 gens just to get Bloodlusted and slapped with NOED, then facecamped to death while all your teammates just leave, giving the killer a free kill they did nothing to earn.
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You see no problem whatsoever in the fact that people can dump an entire Ranger Medkit w/ charge add-ons into themselves over the course of a game, and then because they have a few charges left (but nowhere near enough to heal themselves fully) they can just press a button and be fine? Okay then.
And BNP? Really? BNP by itself removes roughly 13s from a solo gen. With a full Commodious it's over 21 seconds, even more if you add Scraps or Wire Spool. One BNP is easily enough to swing an entire game if used at the right time. Have you ever faced a squad running 4? I've seen a few, and you stand no chance of pulling it back even if you have Ruin, Undying, No Way Out and NOED.
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How one-sided if you think the rest are balanced but NOED isn't.
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"Gen/Hook Pickup failure - Add a .25s exit animation for unhooks and gens so people can't bait the pickup and instead have to commit to the animation or run." But why? Wouldnt that just make facecamping even easier? I don't see how it is an issue right now.
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BNP- I'm ok with those changes but add on a certain number of charges (same for what you did with Syringe and Septic)
NOED- I don't agree with...
1) you're basically taking away the exposed status effect cause killer's need to hit Survivors 2-3 times
2) Why make it work with a Totem at that point
3) NOED should work off of the Totems... like TOTH Also makes all Totems lit up(and does counts Boons)
- 5 Totems left- Exposed status effect for 60 seconds
- 3-4 Totems left- Exposed for 15 or 30 seconds
- 1-2 Totems left- Speed increase by a %
COH- Should be capped... just like other healing perks
Pentimento- Should grant the ability to break any Totem
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A few points on that:
-The objectively best counter to facecamping is doing the gens and 3 man outing them. Does it suck for that one guy that dies unfairly? Yes, but IMO it's far better than the alternative, which is rewarding and enabling a toxic playstyle that is otherwise opting to lose the game for one kill. The more you leave them get their one and leave, the less people will facecamp.
-Wouldn't really hurt things that much anyway. .25s is not very long and requires moderately fast reaction time to be able to get the pickup in that time considering latency is a factor. People also tend to crowd hooks to unhook against facecamping killers, and that wouldn't change at all considering the killer can't manage 3 people at once. All someone has to do is bodyblock while their teammate unhooks and the killer can't stop them. A lot of people already do that now.
-Even if you manage to unhook against a facecamping killer by yourself now, you still guarantee them a trade on the hook, putting your team in the exact same situation.
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So you want NOED to be a totem perk and a perk with stacks? What a harsh nerf for a perk that isn't that difficult to counter. You have plently of time to locate the lit totem when the gens are finished.
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I don’t know if I’m looking at this wrong but couldn’t someone just make you run faster?
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IMO it wouldn't be much of a nerf at all if you don't suck and can at least get a few hooks before all the gens are done.
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No they couldn't. Everything you do on your screen in DBD is client-sided. You can control a lot of things like gen placements and whatnot, but you cannot control someone else's player model because you don't have access to their client. There is currently no available hacks that can alter other players' speeds.
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It's a hex perk. Those are perks that survivors can remove from the game. Adding extra conditions to a hex perk will make it garage. See release Hex: Blood Favor.
NOED is fine as it is. I get finding it annoying, but it's not strong enough that it really warrants such a harsh nerf that you are suggesting.
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I mean, I've made posts about how to buff Survivors but you do you ig
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Not even that, bnp is 25% of a gen if you hit all the skillchecks and then the like 10-15 seconds saved from the commodius. So in total that's 20 seconds from the bnp + 10-15 so a solo gen with a commodius and bnp is nearly 40 seconds.
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No.
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That depends on the condition. Hooks are a thing that just happen. I never proposed a cap on stacks, so in theory you could get as many instadowns as you want granted you get enough hooks. As it stands, NOED rewards bad players and good players equally. If you require that killers need to actually play relatively okay to get the full value out of it I think that's fine. It would make it far less unfair to people who outperform the killer the entire match just to get downed and killed for free by a killer who otherwise would have hooked no one all game, and it would do almost nothing to a killer that actually plays well.
And it is definitely possible to have hex perks with stacks and conditions that are very good. See Hex: Devour Hope.
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You're right: those WOULD be balanced changes and the Devs will NEVER implement them.
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The problem with the do the other 3 gens approach, is that this is assuming that solo queue partner that is now getting facecamped is going to prolong that hang time on the hook. If they peace out once they see its a camper, than its a 3v1 at 4 or 5 gens and the remaining team is screwed. Match ruined. No fun had by anyone.
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Ahh ok to who’s for clarifying
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Because Survivors can easily stop NOED but because of Boons they refuse to Do Bones anymore. I have seen Boon users have a Map with all the addons to find totems easily so that one survivor could easily get rid of NOED if it Procs. But again most survivors dont respect NOED enough to care hence when it does Proc now they say its OP or should be nerfed because they are not doing bones anymore or worry more about thier Boons.
Not saying thier shouldn't be some QoL changes to it but some of the suggestions are downright nerfs to gut it.
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Huh.
I'm astonished to find that I disagree with...none of this.
I'd also add:
- After the same hook has been sabo'd 3x, it becomes blocked by the Entity and can no longer be sabotaged (prevents games being taken hostage on some maps).
- Grabbing a survivor from a locker will grant the killer 1 second of immunity to flashlight blinds (thanks to Tru3's video, this nonsense is becoming common and again can be used to stall out a game basically indefinitely).
- After remaining in the same location for 60s seconds, the killer will no longer have collision (prevents killers from taking the game hostage).
- Flashlights will drain rapidly if fired repeatedly, and the audio FX incurs a short cooldown after using.
- If the killer remains within the proximity of a hooked survivor for 30 seconds, their aura is revealed to all survivors and the hooked survivor will automatically unhook and gain the effects of Borrowed Time. However, if other survivors are close-by, this effect is disabled (should help prevent facecamping, but it's a very hard issue to fix).
- Scourged Hook effects also apply to hooks in the basement.
- Disconnection penalty will stack more aggressively in intermittent cases (rage DCs are still way too common).
- Healing a survivor does not prevent them from being picked up (fixes healtech shenanigans and also a common lag-switching trick to hold the game hostage).
- Playing in a SWF will apply a temporary increase to the team's average MMR proportional to the number of players together. 1.1x for 2, 1.3x for 3 and 1.6x for 4 (at least helps offset the advantages of SWF).
- Players under the effects of Borrowed Time no longer have collision.
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I don't have an issue with NOED in its current state. My post is aimed at their opinion toward one side receiving nerfs being justified, yet NOED is not. If NOED is already balanced, then so should the others be.
I'd personally remove all the Ultra Rare addons on both sides. They're nothing but cheap anyway.
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Ahhh ok I misunderstood your response my bad. The removal of Pink Addons is nice idea but some Killers would need major QoL changes to compensate because let's face it.....some are just weak without them sadly...
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Huh?
Demo's are fine, possibly undertuned. And more importantly, they are fun.
Doctor's are mediocre.
Artist's are crap.
Honestly, a lot of killers have either fine or weak iris. It's only a handful of outliers like Nurse and Clown that have problematic iris.
NOED...eh. On one hand, I'd like to give killers more love before they start chopping again, but in isolation I don't think this perk is healthy for the game.
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NOED needs a buff, the Mortal Kombat theme should start playing after the first hit.
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BNP's used to consume the toolbox, but it legitimately did the entire gen, I don't see a reason to consume it, but the inconsistency with the medkit add-ons that functioned similarly is odd. I see no reason to nerf toolboxes more than they already have been, by making it consume the toolbox anymore.
I see no problem with the medkit add-ons in their current state. They consume the medkit, giving you a sign that they used one of the 2, and you have to take the gamble of which. God forbid there be mindgames from the survivor.
I see no problem with the gen/hook faking, it's not like they're trying to get you to grab them for DS, and it's just a time waster move.
If the killer can break the totem, it should take more than 2 seconds to snuff it out, or boon totems should be able to be applied faster. I'd be more down for a rework of the perk than it destroying the totem.
NOED is fine as it is, it's a very high risk high reward perk, as you are taking a perk that potentially might not get any use. It's ok for noob crutches to exist.
Map offerings are a weird mix bag. There exists an offering to cancel them out, but if all 4 of them bring in the same one it overrides it, but to be honest I have never seen every survivor bring the same map offering. I'd say just buff the Sacrificial Ward to never be overridden, and make it a common offering so people can actually try to collect them.
The speedhack suggestion though? Genius. I hope they actually do something along those lines.
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That BNP nerf would do nothing to toolboxes on the whole; it would only affect BNP, which when used in conjunction with a good toolbox is an inordinately large time save compared to the other add-ons.
The issue with instaheals is also that you can use them to get an extra heal (or 8 second immunity) out of a medkit for free; doesn't matter if you have 32 charges left or just 1. Ranger + Gel Dressings + Anti-Hemo on multiple survivors is basically a pre-lit CoH by itself.
Grabs are meant to be a mechanic that prevents survivors from doing certain actions in your face. A pickup or M1 is quite often the difference between whether or not a gen is finished in your face, and baiting it in those situations does far more than just "waste time"
Why should snuffing take more than 2 seconds? Killer time is 4 times as important as Survivor time, so at the moment going 4 seconds out of your way to snuff, spending 2 seconds to snuff, then 4 seconds going back to patrolling—a 10 second time sink—is roughly equivalent to a single survivor doing absolutely nothing for 40 seconds, 2 survivors for 20 seconds, 3 for around 13, or the entire team for those 10 seconds. That's not even talking about the instances where survivors set the totem in an area out of the killer's way.
NOED is a low-risk-variable-reward perk if you ask me. If they do all the bones, they still spent 70 seconds with one survivor not doing gens. If they do no bones and slam gens, you will most likely get value unless the totem lights up directly next to a survivor as the last gen is finished. Honestly the biggest risk of NOED is not having a perk slot until the endgame. My change still would leave genuinely decent players largely unaffected.
Sac Wards are a band-aid on the problem. I should not have to bring a specific offering just so a 4 man on comms can't cater their entire builds around one specific map for a free win just because they feel like it.
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The BNP nerf would just be nerfing an already gutted item that barely gets used by deleting it before you can get full use out of it unless BNPs get buffed based on the toolbox + other add-on used.
For the those med kit add-ons, yeah I kinda forget that it works on just one charge left. Maybe could make it charge dependent for them, meaning if they have a lot of charges for a syringe, it will be fast, but waste the entire medkit, or low charge it will be a long passive heal which they can't do in your face, and for the syptic a full purple with a green charge add-on would last more than 8 seconds of invuln, but a near empty green would only give you like, 2 seconds.
I just can't justify having a totem break, but there could definitely be a timer for boons, like once it's snuffed you can't reapply it for like, 2-3 mins on the same totem. They're odd to balance, because of the timesink, but the only one that really anyone seems to complain about is CoH, so probably a nerf to healing speed. Maybe make it only a self-heal increase or less drastic of an increase on healing others. I don't think it'd be fun to shutdown an entire playstyle in like 10 seconds, while also setting up one of the potentially strongest slowdown perks in the game because of totems breaking. If snuffing stays the way it is, fine. But if it's a 2 second for a break, that's where I have a problem.
Eh, NOED has been through a lot of changes, and it's in the most balanced state it's ever been in. I like the "Oh #########" moments caused by it, and it just being able to be drained away by missed swings honestly, just seems lame.
I still don't see a problem with map offerings. Killers ones are weighted more (higher chance than a survivors offering), so you can always bring your own to combat it and go to a map YOU want to go to, and sacrificial wards while band-aidy, are still a good option. The only other options if you really get upset about the 4 Man SWF bully squads are to just not play the game in fear of them. They are not that common, and if you think they're a 4 man SWF with comms before the match starts, you can leave the lobby, and requeue. If you don't notice until after, play the game, go afk, or DC. It's not like they are holding you hostage unless it's a hacker SWF, which is probably even more rare.
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I've never had porblems with NOED, it either never activated, or the Killer got 1 down and it got cleansed
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Guess you're just better than me.
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I don't think that's it, it probably has to do with Totems being so badly hidden that even SoloQ teammates can find them
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Not in my experience.
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Damn. Git gud then 4head /s
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Mmm, indeed.
I took 104 games worth of stats about the average number of totems cleansed.
All 5 totems got done 5 times.
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It's not always necessary to cleanse Totems to counter NOED, just memorizing their position can work aswell. That's how I deal with NOED, 50% Totems cleaned and other 50% Totem location memorized
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I never uderstood why NOED can't be a hex perk like any other.
If you find the totem before the endgame GOOD, otherwise you are exposed, you had plenty of time to get rid of the totem, if you were too busy genrushing it is only your fault.
The issue is when this totem appears ONLY after 5 gens giving it a huge amount of protection no other hex has.
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Questionable only NOED. I think it's just fine at the way it works now,
But with rest I agree. Especially CoH. This survivor totems make Pentemento totally useless
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BNP is already an additional 2 second time save (~13s) over a Commodious with no add-ons (~11s). I don't think essentially doubling the toolbox with no Built To Last-esque time sink is particularly fair.
Part of my issue is the fact that, with good players, even a 2-3 minute cooldown would do next to nothing with CoH. Good players are going to set it somewhere out of the killer's way to create a safe zone for heals, which means the killer has to waste 20+ seconds of their time to get to it and snuff it. Even a cooldown there won't fix the issue because they'll still eventually be able to set it again on that same out of the way, time wasting totem. And CoH increases game time already to the point a cooldown of that length is almost meaningless outside of dealing with bully squads. IMO the only way to fix the out of the way totem issue is by having the killer's time sink rewarded by rendering that totem permanently useless to the survivors when snuffed. And screw it, make the break 5 seconds then. I'd much rather sink an extra 3 than have to deal with RPD library totem again in my entire life. That said, anything CLOSE to the survivors' 14 second time sink would be a joke considering that, like I said, killer time is 4 times as important.
And I agree NOED is completely balanced as it stands. I do, however, take issue with it being a degen, unhealthy perk that can reward people who played poorly with free, unearned kills. My point is to make it something equally as strong, but only if you don't play like garbage. Bare minimum I'd like a system that requires you to actually play the game before the gens get finished.
And basically saying "just deal" with a horrible, unbalanced thing like map offerings just because it "isn't that common" is a dumb argument to me, and it's the same reason we had old Object running amok for literal years. And that's not to mention they definitely are very common in high MMR; not to bring up Otz again but I do recall him getting 7 or 8 map offerings in a row recently. At the very least they could reduce the chance by 20% for every member in your party or something.
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Pentimento being dead on arrival was extremely upsetting. Made no sense to me that they introduce a mechanic that disincentivizes cleansing, then added a killer perk that requires survivors cleanse for it to work. With snuffing the way it is now I'm surprised they didn't make killer able to light dulls with Pentimento. Then again, the devs don't even play their own game nor do they listen to the Fog Whisperers, so what can I expect?
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Noed should be 2 stacks per hit. A 2 hook Nurse shouldn't be able to down half the team in 20s.
All Boons should just have large cooldowns when snuffed.
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