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Is facecamping really being looked at?
I’ve heard rumors that the devs are looking into it. If so, that would be amazing. Too many matches where killers just sit at their first hook and play off of trades.
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Afaik, they've always wanted to fix facecamping.
The issue is that there really isn't a way that doesn't punish innocent players.
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What Pulsar said
I imagine they'd love to fix it but I have yet to hear anyone give a fix that wouldn't also punish innocent players and/or could be abused by people. The closest things I've heard were extra points and whatnot for leaving the area but if someone wants to facecamp, they generally don't really care about getting BP or whatnot...
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You can dream. Maybe yes maybe no.
There was the idea of a start game collapse - got scrapped. There are still so many bugs to fix, new maps to make, and stuff. Takes time.
And there are the quarterly new killers and survs and cosmetics and stuff.
Tickets with serious problems can take over a month.
And the game is steam platinum. I would not fix that, generates way to much attention.
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I say the only time hard camping should be allowed by the killer is if it's the basement hooks. The hooks should act like Pyramid Head cages if the killer lingers for too long. That's my take on it anyway.
Edit: I'd love it for the sole fact that if I hook a survivor next to an open exit gate and the timer is counting down I can stare at them for a few seconds, free the hook and send them across the map into a potentially even more perilous set up. Killers could use this as a very tactical tool.
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Every attempt has failed because it's based around punishment rather than incentive.
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If you complain about getting camped by a killer you are the problem. If you are getting facecamped your team better genrush objectives. Thats the punishment for doing that. The killer loses BP and deranks. Why are you guys trying to punish killers when killers suck in this game to begin with. Smh
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Because killers don’t care about deranking or blood points when they facecamp, that’s WHY they do it. They’re doing it simply because they’re purposely trying to be a jerk or they don’t care. Yes, there are some killers that struggle more than others but I’d rather go against a strong killer that can manage to get hooks rather than ones that just babysit and play off trades. How is that fun for either side? It only makes sense to make some sort of punishment. And, you actually have it backwards, the survivor being face camped is the one who gets punished because they’re unable to play the game, they receive the least amount of bloodpoints, they derank, and you’re almost guaranteed to die.
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You are kidding right? Killer mains give alot of crap about BP and the only time these events happen is one of two reasons. Either
- You are a sweaty player/squad running flashlight/flashbang deep popping 3 gens within 60 seconds trolling at shack or LW loops. The killer has accepted you have won and your disrespectful playstyle of “Oppressing” or “bullying” the Killer made him sit in your face and deny you your escape points. You earned it.
- Its a new killer unaware of how killer is or a casual just messing around.
9/10 times its always Scenario 1 than 2. This is one of the few kind of competition games that encouraged players to play extremely toxic and abusive/harassment towards the other player who is fundamentally gimped to what you can bring to the table(meaning Survivors have a significant advantage over killers in every aspect). Until the devs decide to balance the game around fun or fairness it will continue to exist as it is the only option many times for Killer mains to give you the taste of medicine you provide many times over. Accept it. Learn to play for fun as a survivor main rather then openly commit to making the game as insufferable as possible for people who may want to dip there toes in the Killer side.
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You're delusional. Most campers camp off their first hook, regardless of how long it took them. You can deny it all you want but there are MANY killers who play like this. This scenario is the most oppressive scenario in the game because the person on the hook is forced to be unable to play the game. The killer gets teabagged? He can still play the game, and that tbagging is only making that survivor lose distance. Flashlight after a pallet stun? A good killer will generally be still right on that survivor's tail, and again, they wasted time. Killers hooks and camps a survivor? That survivor either has to give up or sit on the hook for 2 minutes being unable to play the game they paid for and the killer reaps the rewards if it isn't a SWF because most of them are gonna be off gens to see what's going on. 95% of the time a killer who face camps will get a 2k AT LEAST unless Prove Thyself is involved. How is that a punishment for the killer when Behaviour itself recognizes this result as a DRAW?
Keep in mind also this is what BRAND SPANKING NEW survivors also have to deal with until they get good enough and only the people who have the nerves of steel to continue dealing with it are the ones who stay.
Everything I've ever heard from Behaviour suggests they want camping to STAY in the game, but not be the "best choice", which is essentially encouraging griefers.
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Just a quick idea, that I didn't examine on its abuse potential: what if the hook stages progressed faster the further away from the hook you are, while slowing it down if you face camp? But it sounds like such an easy fix that it probably has some glaring issue that I didnt think about ^^
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They tried that (I believe that literal scenario but I'm not 100%, it slowed down the hook progress if the killer was by the hooked survivor).
Shockingly, SWFs quickly used this to their advantage as they realized they could have one person essentially loop their own hooked teammate while the other two hammered the hell out of the gens.
Ultimately, like many things in this game, SWFs ability to coordinate and teamwork with communication cripples just about any idea that one could do to punish a killer camping.
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And this is why it's impossible to take survivor mains seriously.
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How about not always making it an "us vs them" problem and throwing shade and contempt on the other faction? By umbrella not taking the survivor mains seriously you weaken your own voice considerably and sound like d-bag, even though you might be a totally nice person.
Wow, thats rough, but honestly I am not surprised. A quick fix could be that the slowdown only happens, if no other survivor is near, but knowing the number crunchers out there, someone would quickly cough up the optimal profit range for looping. Its sad that the high end competitive side of the game destroys so many good ideas and attempts to make it more accessible and fun for big swaths of the player base.
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I hope they don't.
Usually suggestions are punitive and thus can be exploited by the other side which isn't a good fix.
Hook trading and playing around the hook can make for some fun and intense interactions, especially when playing around the basement.
If they punish camping then they need to increase the viability of chases for killer, which means slower gen progression, or weaker survivors 1on1 via perk nerfs or more "anti-loop" mechanics.
The community seems to hate all these options.
So what's wanted is no anti-loop, no gen slowdown, no camping... what's left?
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Ive said this before and its an easy fix all they have to do is after a certain time of camping a hook the entity swaps the hook to another location on the map forcing the killer to patrol
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I mean they already implemented one for pyramid head's cages where standing near the cage teleports the cage. they just never implemented it on other killers.
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what's bullshit about it? it fixes a problem for survivors having little to no counter-play(other than hook trading) on instant down/low recovery characters and eliminates facecamping. Dev said proxy camping is fine and you can still proxy camp with this change. in fact many players that play pyramid head still do for when they're tunneling the guy out of the cage.
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They tried that before it also was abused
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if one day they are looking at FaceCamping, an idea to punish without abuse is to give Speed Boost to Gens when Killer stay at proximity after X seconds after hook and growing up while time goes on : i mean 10%speed avec 30secs ,25% after 60 (to be adjusted by devs) same goes for radius around hooked player.
this way cannot be abused by survs so its only killer's mistake to facecamp, and can make games less boring.
In all Remember Camping , Tunnel and others Strats from Killer and Survivors are allowed and an entire part of the game
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Hopefully, but it's hard to do in a way that doesn't punish killers for camping when the situation warrants it. There has to be some middle ground.
It can't be good for player retention when a newer player finds out that BubbaBot#420 can put them in the basement at the start and facecamp them to death after they waited in a 5+ minute queue.
On the other hand, if a survivor takes a chase into the middle of a 3 gen and goes down or doesn't have the game sense to take chase to the Corrupt Intervention side at the start, a killer needs to be able to defend that hook. Survivors can't just be free to make mistakes.
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Let's say you've got 1 gen left, you get chased and run as far away from that gen as you can, so when you are downed your teammates can keep working. Once you get hooked, the hook then teleports to be closer to your team, they get a free unhook and all pressure is instantly lost.
Or, it's end game, you hook a survivor near the shack, they get teleported to a hook by one of the doors or hatch and escape.
Yes these are things that could theoretically be programmed around, but I don't believe they would be. In the meantime, how bad would slugging become? I personally don't leave people to bleed out, but if my options are that or hope that the RNG gods don't give away my pressure, I can't say I would continue to abstain, especially at end game.
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This.
Facecamping is frustrating and far too effective.
However, fixing it in a way that isn't going to be massively abused or negate legitimate playstyles like proxying is going to be a very complicated, very difficult job.
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Hello!
Going to address multiple things being said here:
- Facecamping is not an effective strategy if survivors are smart enough. Of course, you may say that if you are solo queue, this is generally useless and you cannot help them coordinate, but even then it's possible that they will take all the time he is camping, split up and make up to 5 generators by just his mistake - facecamping.
- If it's not an instadown killer, you can for sure very easily rescue the survivor. This is generally advised when all generators are powered or he is going into second stage/dying
- If you are facecamping, you will get one or two survivors (if the survivors are good) which will result in less MMR points than normally. You also earn less bloodpoints if you are near proximity of hook.
Generally speaking, you cannot prevent facecamping anyhow. One idea is to make Kindred a basekit if the killer is being in 16 meter proximity for over 12 seconds, which would work technically even on Insidious as it would show up in Status HUD that you have Kindred effect and you'd see survivors, but not killer and change somehow Kindred. While yes, this is not the best option, it's generally something good to work with.
Arguments such as: "Well but I receive bad survivors"... You won't get facecamped each match and you won't get bad survivors all the time. Once you win matches and you are truly eligible to be at high MMR, you will remain there.
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I find the idea quite interesting. After all, we have PH cages already, so we know this kind of mechanics work.
That's the biggest issue. Sometimes, a Survivor is gonna loop the Killer near the hook, forcing the Killer to stay near the hook. Maybe the Killer didn't want to camp/proxy camp or whatever it's called, but they clearly can't ignore if someone is coming right in front of them.
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The reason PHead's cages work is because they are optional. The killer is never forced to cage, and it can be beneficial to choose one or the other, depending on the situation.
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One idea I'd had is a use the swap/teleport of Pyramid Head's cages but, decrease the range at which this occurs with every completed gen.
That can preseve camping as a legitimate endgame strategy while punishing those who use it right out the gate.
Should probably retain the "no penalty of in a chase by the hook" aspect currently in place for emblems. Should reduce the abusability of things if I'm guessing right about how it was abused.
Plus it's not camping when survivors done let you leave.
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Dude, there's a reason people respond to certain people on this forum in an 'Us vs Them' manner. Because they are 100% biased, and most often in a way that is not event cognizant of the other side. This is Mileena's discussions:
I highlighted the ones that were inarguably survivor sided. There's several people that do this nowadays, trying to troll the other side. They don't deserve your defense.
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Aren't they? My general observation has been that camping is considered more acceptable in the late game (when generators have been mostly if not fully completed) so it makes sense glint by the to make it less punishing in that circumstance with #of gend finished being an easy way to benchmark that.
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Rightly or wrongly, I can't help thinking that this mindset is exactly what this thread is trying to cope with.
My takeaway thus far is that hook camping, while not against the rules of the game, is frustrating to deal with, but there's no easy solution it because, as you say, camping can be a valid strategy and there isn't an obvious way to deal with the abusers of the strategy without affecting the ones who use it at the correct/most opportune times.
That's why my idea was take the most obvious solution (moving the hook away from the camper), add a twist that keeps camping as a valid strategy, especially as the game goes on and the consensus considers it acceptable, but leave a way to reduce its abusability by the survivor side.
Gens don't have to be the determining factor, but they are the easiest one to go with. In your own example, if 4 gens get done that fast the forced teleport range is almost minimized so nothing's really stopping you from camping at that point if that's what you intend to do.
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you don't understand the context for this. when killers camp this heavily and are this close to the hook, a single survivor is not really able to go for a save because survivors have this animation where the survivor looks around as they unhook meaning that the killer can grab you. in order to counter this situation during mid-game, you need bring multiple survivors to do unhook but in this situation, who exactly is winning? technically, killer is pressuring 3 survivors at once.
one of the solution to this is hook trading with borrow time where you cycle hook timers until you complete generators to escape. issue is that killers can pick killers with instant down/low recovery that prevent single hook trading which leads to above problem with additional problem where no matter how many survivors you bring, someone will always land up on the hook. The other solution is what patrick says in Q&A that you trade all 3 of your teammate hook states to rush generators and escape as 3 man.
none of your situations will really change. you'll still just be able to proxy camp 6 meters away from the hook which is like a killer's lunge distance. they're not removing camping. if they were, you'd just remove hook regression from hooks, though i don't think killers in current iteration of balance can do 12 chases and win by 3 hook condition. there's not enough time for that and part of reason is this problem right here. survivor's need to able to do generators quickly to counter-act this behavior. long story short, camping punishes killers that go for many chases and the game is overall balanced around survivors being 1 hooked and 2 hooked. gen defense perks such as old hex:ruin and well corrupt/deadlock, further just strength this type of gameplay.
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Well, yeah, nothing else the survivor can do but look at me facecamping them. I guess they could circle their camera and look at their teammates doing nothing instead, but ultimately, when you hit them on hook, that tends to get their attention back on you.
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them saying they want to address camping and then in the same sentence saying proxying the hook is fine equals out as a nothing statement to me. It basically says 'we're only addressing a killer stood directly 0.5m from the hook staring at you' which does nothing to address camping at all, like a bubba couldnt stand 10m away from the hook and still down multiple people.
PH Cage moving doesn't do anything either, because the threshhold for it to move needs to again be right in the cage's model to make it move anywhere. The amount of PH i've played against that camp the cage from a distance with their sword in the ground proves it.
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Right now? yes they are, as other people already said, it may get canned after some time but the official position right now is they are lookig on it and trying to make it less rewarding/easier to punish by Survivors.
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