How many points should the killer lose for slugging till survivors bleedout
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Yes, because you can't make every mechanic in the game heavily punish one side when it crops up. Bleeding out is a necessary mechanic to make the game end when it's being stalled out by either side and unrewarding for the winner. And, as a consequence, the majority of Killers will hook someone because they don't want to wait around either and want the points. It's working as intended.
Asking for more won't hurt the people doing it by spite (they don't care already) unless it's something excessive like bans, and you know who gets hurt then? The people using it as intended and random players once hackers start forcing themselves into infinite slug situations.
So yes, eating the five minutes of nothing is actually the best outcome. We all have to do it occasionally on either side.
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Considering most people who will slug everyone and wait out the timer do not care about any punishment this means the only chance of punishment will be towards innocent people and will only be to make you feel better over something unintentional. Punishments to serve your ego don't work, they tend to backfire.
This has been said by multiple people in this thread but is the point that is ignored the hardest it seems. All any punishment will do is make it easier for jerk survivors to mess with killer players. That's all.
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Killer only gains points for killing. But the good news for you is survivors gains points when escaping.
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Welcome to DBD; where the Survivors have been favored for so long that they now think they have a say in how Killers play, and how Killers win. 🤡
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None because, in order to deal with the problem, punishing someone is not the solution.
Best thing to do is incentivise not slugging; give the killer a good reason to see more of a benefit in not doing this.
Besides, this post only tells part of half the story. Were all survivors close together which allowed it? Did he find all of them and expose them all? Were survivors being a dick to him? Is the killer a dick? Too many factors to suggest such a simplistic solution.
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Now THIS would have made a good topic for discussion. I'd like to see a little -100 above the heads of each survivor every time they teabag too, so that I could watch them teabag all their bloodpoints away!
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I'm not talking about punishing the killer. I'm talking about the way for survivors to just make it end without giving the bully the satisfaction - for example, getting an option to press the suicide button after some time of being downed or at least make some notification to let the douchebag know that the player is AFK and not here to participate in his masturbation session. I've never complained about camping or tunneling here or in the post-game chat. I don't teabag killers at the gate or even carry flashlights. But when it comes to slugging, I'd rather read a book or watch a video while waiting for my DC penalty to run out rather than stay in the game to entertain some pathetic sack of slime behind the keyboard.
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You are not talking about punishing the killer, but the OP definitely is, which is what Raineh was probably referring to.
I agree, a "give up" button would absolutely be appreciated and appropriate. I don't think it's always about a power trip or even trolling. I've left a survivor on the ground before simply because I legit couldn't remember where I dropped them after chasing their friend down. A give up option would have saved us both the frustration of me wandering around trying to find them in the bushes for 3 minutes
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But these suggestions punish all killers. A slugged survivor could hide, wait for some time for the suicide button to activate it and then deny the killer his hook.
How do you measure the intent of the killer who leaves someone slugged for any period of time, especially when the survivors have contrarian intents? You can't.
Also, a notification that I made a survivor literally disengage and afk from the game would provide me, a bully, with plenty of satisfaction.
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None
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- I'm yet to see a survivor who managed to successfully crawl in the corner hide from a killer for the entire 4 minutes. They leave puddles of blood and keep making noises even with Iron Will, they get found and picked up eventually.
- It's pretty easy to measure the intent of the killer. For example, when it's Undetectable Bubba who hooks one survivor, downs anyone who tries to unhook them, then goes for those who remain and spends the rest of the game walking after crawling survivors, pretending to stomp on them. It's very easy to measure.
- As if survivors staying in the game and enduring won't get the bully's microscopic weenie all wet. In the AFK scenario, survivors aren't forced to be bully's doormats for the rest of the trial.
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- No, they don't. There's a well documented bug that causes them to make no sound which I've personally observed into the double-digits, and they stop leaving puddles once they stop moving in long, straight lines. It does happen. Especially if you're playing against uppity survivors and you have to slug a lot to make the game manageable
- You're highlighting an edge case, how does the game know the killer is ignoring the survivor versus they just lost them because of another chase? You're making it convenient for a system that would be anything but, and you also need to keep in mind that the devs have already shown us that they struggle with the programming of their own game. Bugs, like the one I mentioned earlier, and others have been around forever
- I answered your original point, denying bully satisfaction. I promise you, the bullys will still be satisfied
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- Never encountered this bug in my runs. It's not the intended part of the game and the killers are *supposed* to be able to find downed survivors. That's on BHVR.
- The option to suicide can be not instant - for example, done with pressing and holding a button for some time (something akin to "recover" when downed, but with slower bar progress). So, if the killer deliberately wastes the time necessary for the option to appear and then lollygags some more, the survivor gets to end it because it was obvious that the killer had no intention of hooking them in the first place. If the killer leaves a downed survivor for a chase, that survivor is usually picked up by others. If the last standing survivor is the only one that remains, the killer can down them, hook them, and will have enough time to come back for the previously downed one. If it's too hard for BHVR to design at their current state, at least the "I'm AFK, you joyless POS" notification would be nice.
- OK, I get it the only way bullies don't get satisfied is when they're electrocuted on the spot or get clocked right in the head instantly after pulling their crap in the game. However, they get to enjoy themselves even more and for a much longer time if they know that the player is stuck with them and can do nothing except endure. So the players aren't obliged to contribute to their wank fest.
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You are completely disregarding killers losing track of downed survivors, which absolutely happens, in favor of edge cases. They can lose track of them when other survivors are still alive, and they can lose track of them when its the last two and the non-slugged just went on the hook and they don't have BBQ. You are underestimating how easy it is to lose a survivor that had thirty seconds on the ground and does not want to be found. With the EGC interference, generator noise, ambient noises, it happens frequently and again, you have provided no reasonable means in which to track the killers intent.
I don't know why you're so hellbent on communicating to the killer your AFK. They don't care.
There's nothing more to unpack here.
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Killers mains complaining is hilarious. I can have a great match as survivor and get less bp than the killers who didnt get any kills. Also way easier to pip as killer (hence more bp on 13th). So all these killers care about is a 4k, people like that (care about 4 escape or 4k all the time) are a joke to me.
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I could probably understand, in one scenario the killer slugs everyone and they are teabaging killer whom wants to troll and see you bleed to death. But for me and most scenario, if the slugging opportunity presents themselves and people whom do not run a Unbreakable or any perks to recover themselves, decided to crawl so far away fron the point they are down and the Killer doesn't have any means to know where you are. It is sort of your faults for making it difficult for the killer to pick you up and hook you up; and you unintentionally bleed out to death by your own actions. Survivors are so difficult to track these days, especially when they are using Iron Will while on the ground.
In a way, I want DeerStalker to be base kit; since Survivors are usually the ones to blame for causing the Slugging to happen when grouping together or when the Survivors recovering decided to flee by crawling away and making it difficult to track by the killer.
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- Okay. Tracking intent. Make the button pop up if all remaining survivors are down and *none* of them is hooked for a minute. Hooking a survivor rolls back the timer necessary for the suicide option to appear. So, a normal killer has enough time to find and hook all downed survivors, while slugged survivors have the option to go out if their killer is the BMing monkey.
- Oh, they do care. They wouldn't be going out of their way to slug people and then following them, nodding and mocking, if they didn't. They know that the players have to watch - and this is what pisses people off enough to start looking for some sort of payback. I know that there is no way to punish that behavior with BPs or any other way - it's impossible to implement and any attempts would backfire on normal players. Giving survivors some initiative by at least showing the killer that he is stuck here all alone and nobody is going to watch him is satisfying.
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I just want to point out that a I give up feature would be used to start trolling other survivors or when they get slugged legitimately they would just give up screwing over the team. This would just bring in a whole new troll.
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Give the killer more points for making the survivors suffer and bleed out
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- Let's see about tracking intent. If none of all remaining survivors is hooked in a certain period of time, the option to suicide appears. After the killer hooks a survivor, he delays the timer. So, a normal killer has enough time to find and hook all downed survivors, while survivors get to end the game sooner when dealing with a BMing chimpanzee.
- Oh, but they do care. Why else would they follow a downed survivor, nodding and mocking, staring them down until they bleed out? They want an audience and they know that the survivors have just to endure it. So, I can see why it pisses people off. I'm against creating a punishment for killers because normal players would get hurt, but I am all for an option to at least show the killer that the player is inactive and it's their digital husk they're dancing to.
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Again, when there is one survivor left who has used his 30 seconds on the ground to elude the killer, how does the system determine that the killer is genuinely looking for this survivor or not? I am not the only person who has brought up this scenario, I don't even think I'm the first person to do it on this thread. Every way you've defined it, that elusive survivor gets to circumvent the EGC, suicide, and deny the killer the remaining slug timer to hook them.
I'm not sure who hurt you that you are so honed in on ending slugging BM, but I hope you are as sympathetic to the killers that get railroaded every game by Seal Team 6 SWF Squads. Which, by my reckoning, is as rare as the Bubba footstomping you outlined earlier.
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- If the button timer is delayed for every survivor hooked + the downed survivor can't crawl and press the harakiri button simultaneously + slow progress bar + (hopefully) BHVR doing something about the noise bug, the killer has enough time to find them and hook them too.
- It's funny how refusing to simply swallow the BM leads to those "who hurt you" talks)) SWF squads don't get any love and support from me in trials, and if they teabag, grief and then try to give me directions, I ignore them and do my objectives as I see fit. A BMer is a BMer, survivor or killer.
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Depending on hook states the killer already loses out on a minimum 500 BP letting them bleed out, up to 1500 BP, on all four survivors this can escalate to 6000 BP.
I also forgot to add in struggle phase which is another 200-800
Sacrifice also doesn't give the bonus 200, or 500 when gates are open, so, that's another up to 800-2000 lost.
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- If the button timer is delayed for every survivor hooked + the downed survivor can't crawl and press the F button simultaneously + slow progress bar + (hopefully) BHVR doing something about the noise bug, the killer has enough time to find them and hook them too.
- It's funny how refusing to simply swallow the BM and become someone's doormat instantly leads to those "who hurt you" talks)) I'm a solo survivor and a pretty damn selfish one thanks to SWF squads. So they don't get any love and support from me in trials, and if they teabag and grief or try to give me directions, I ignore them, do my objectives and hope to leave the trial. A BMer is a BMer, survivor, or killer.
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I've absolutely had a survivor crawl away into a corner and hide from me for several minutes. Tenacity+slug bug. Could never find him.
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I don't think you wanna open the floodgates of taking points away from players that do things others find unfun, or I'm gonna start knocking 1,000 BP from a Survivor every time they turn a flashlight on and off.
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What you're saying is you believe that the survivor should be able to suicide based on some arbitrary delay. What I'm saying is I want the remainder of their slug timer/EGC to make a genuine effort to find them. Why do I lose that time because someone else was griefing you? On any other thread people would be telling you to suck it up and they'd never think twice to look at your response. I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt.
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Suck it up? Something a bully would say, so I'd instantly realize they weren't worth talking to in the first place.
With enough time restrictions regarding the activation of the button, the killer won't lose any time necessary to find a downed survivor. While, yes, a survivor gets something to do with griefers who intentionally drag the game. You also keep forgetting that I mention the AFK option if a suicide button scares killers so much.
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It's not for us to decide.
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Yes, you understand now. With enough restrictions we are back to the original timer, as it should be, because the game cannot decipher intent.
I didn't forget it. It's just not a valid option worth considering. It's a frivolous piece if code so that you can imaginarily slight the killers ego. BHVR needs to focus on real issues. Not blood point taxes and afk notifications because the killer didn't play the way you wanted them to play.
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...none? Is this a trick question?
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So...may i ask what you do if the survivor intends to bring a flashlight for actual saving and not being toxic and "click click"
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Griefing and BMing is not "playing as someone didn't want them to play". It's player intentionally being a piece of human garbage. I simply understand why people are not happy with letting such players wipe their feet of them because the gameplay doesn't offer any other alternative. Asking for punishment is not possible. Implementing measures to disengage from the bully is possible.
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This game is so incredibly imbalanced that the most minute of things can cause a snowball effect to where someone could go down extremely quickly early on due to bad RNG or being stuck at a series of extremely unsafe pallets, so someone could theoretically go down in 2 minutes from the get go, however that wasn't my argument. My argument was they get 2 minutes of active time with a killer, as in from the start of the chase, to the end of the chase. Working on gens isn't exactly gameplay and even if we were to allow that, the killer is going to find someone within a minute of the game or they're awful, and no, there isn't a situation where someone just WON'T be able to be caught. If a killer wants a survivor, they can get them, it only takes 90 seconds to get bloodlust 3 twice so at most a chase could last probably 2-3 minutes tops if the killer is not breaking pallets or hitting other survivors. Even at a safe pallet a 130% move speed killer will eventually get a hit. If a killer wants someone dead, there is no way you can completely stop that from happening unless they mess up a lot.
As for survivors being bad enough to be brought down to a killer that they don't lose to often, that's not true either, as if they're in a worse mmr, they will encounter this behavior much more, and if it isn't them, it'll be someone else.
As for suggestions to this conundrum, I've made them before, but this forum doesn't like that because they want to grief people by slapping them on hooks over and over. I've suggested before that survivors only get one hook, but survivors can get away easier. People don't like the idea of not being able to stare into the eyes of a preconceived notion they have of the other person they're facing for 2 minutes with an air of superiority.
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If you ask me, we should get bonus points for letting them bleed out.
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