Buff the No Mither Perk
Leave no scratch marks when running.
Even with this buff, the Survivor can still be 1-shot; still requires breaking line of sight during a chase to get away; and can still be tracked with Stridor.
Without it means being tracked by scratch marks, and being tunneled to death once found.
Dead Hard, which is almost always run with this perk, still won't make it game-breaking, as that brief invulnerability won't help with breaking line of sight to slip away (unless the Killer is bad).
Comments
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The primary purpose of No Mither is to fully recover from the dying state, so the necessary correction before any other consideration is that the survivor starts the game healthy, but cannot be cured if injured: if the killer meets for the first time a survivor already wounded, they have the mathematical proof that he is using No Mither and will NEVER leave him to bleed on the ground. Therefore the perk becomes radically useless, because it is recognizable at first sight.
This done, eliminating scratches while running is a major advantage, so I would balance with the removal of attenuated moans: the wounded moans normally and, if they want silence, must match No Mither and Iron Will.
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I don't really agree with that being a way to buff it. I would prefer the buff of just making the player start out healthy and prevent them from healing once injured.0
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just give bonus BP for it.
this perk is supposed to be a hard mode for survivors, so i dont think it should be buffed, but instead reward you for using it.7 -
I'd say the only thing they could do with it is reduce the time to wiggle free by 2 seconds at tier III, would mean they have a slightly better chance to escape getting hooked unless they drop at/close to a hook. Using hook reducing offerings would be useful for that too.
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@Aerys said:
I'd say the only thing they could do with it is reduce the time to wiggle free by 2 seconds at tier III, would mean they have a slightly better chance to escape getting hooked unless they drop at/close to a hook. Using hook reducing offerings would be useful for that too.This would make Boil Over decent, too.
I really like Boil Over, but the recent adjustment to hook counts on maps has nerfed Boil Over, sadly.
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Survivor show a lot of overconfidence if they still ask for NM buffs.
They are so sure about not getting hit at all, that they gladly give up a healthstate and ignore the fact that they basically negate any one shot ability.2 -
@Wolf74
Logically speaking that isn't the case, they don't negate one shot abilities/the exposed debuff, they just make it unneeded on that Survivor in particular, that is to say that they still/now always go down in one hit. If all four players are running No Mither it's true that if you ran NOED or if you're The Shape your exposed debuff isn't needed to down them, but that doesn't take away from you in any way it only means that now ALL your actions down them, or rather that they're 100% under the effects of the exposed debuff at all times. So if you took an exposed status effect as a perk, you still end up having the intended effect of your perk happening and it's an even stronger effect that it would've had all thanks to the Survivor's perk choice.2 -
@Aerys said:
@Wolf74
Logically speaking that isn't the case, they don't negate one shot abilities/the exposed debuff, they just make it unneeded on that Survivor in particular, that is to say that they still/now always go down in one hit. If all four players are running No Mither it's true that if you ran NOED or if you're The Shape your exposed debuff isn't needed to down them, but that doesn't take away from you in any way it only means that now ALL your actions down them, or rather that they're 100% under the effects of the exposed debuff at all times. So if you took an exposed status effect as a perk, you still end up having the intended effect of your perk happening and it's an even stronger effect that it would've had all thanks to the Survivor's perk choice.Ok, another person that does not understand how gamedesign works.
If a killer has a strong power -like one shots- he gets balanced around that. His remaining aspects can't be to strong, because for balance reason. Now survivor pick a perk that makes his one shot useless, because the go down on any hit anyway and they gain bonuses for that in exchange, but the killer does not get a new power because his old isn't needed. He is stuck in his build of balance.
same is true for any one shot perk.
Think about a NM team, all run NM. And the killer uses Noed and MYC.
Those perks are balanced around the one shot and are basically useless in that scenario.1 -
@Wolf74
Surely you've heard of counter picking before yes? It's when someone picks a character or ability that works well against another known character/ability. First off though, you will likely never get a full team of No Mither users. Secondly, No Mither is a "counter" to Exposed Status perks and those sorts of Killers. In game design there is nothing innately wrong with that.Also, I am a game developer, I know quite a bit about game design. That's why I'm saying No Mither is awful in its design and bad for a Survivor to take, I can't remember having seen someone with No Mither not get downed since it's so easy to do. Even if it's a counter to those perks, it's an awful counter to try making. Simply put, the benefits No Mither gives are in no way, shape, or form equal to the hindrance it comes with.
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@Mister_xD said:
just give bonus BP for it.
this perk is supposed to be a hard mode for survivors, so i dont think it should be buffed, but instead reward you for using it.This is the truth.
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@Aerys said:
@Wolf74
Surely you've heard of counter picking before yes? It's when someone picks a character or ability that works well against another known character/ability. First off though, you will likely never get a full team of No Mither users. Secondly, No Mither is a "counter" to Exposed Status perks and those sorts of Killers. In game design there is nothing innately wrong with that.Also, I am a game developer, I know quite a bit about game design. That's why I'm saying No Mither is awful in its design and bad for a Survivor to take, I can't remember having seen someone with No Mither not get downed since it's so easy to do. Even if it's a counter to those perks, it's an awful counter to try making. Simply put, the benefits No Mither gives are in no way, shape, or form equal to the hindrance it comes with.
Unfortunatly DBD does not have this kind of "counter pick meta".
Survivor can counter anything that killer bring, but no killer can really counter survivor stuff.
If there would be a killer perk, that would completely negate SC EVERY killer would run it and survivor would switch to something else.
But that is nto the DBD reality.0 -
@Wolf74
I'm aware it doesn't, but in a general sense saying No Mither is a counter to the Exposed status is loosely true, at least it seemed to be what you were arguing for. I'll tell you what it is definitely a counter for; Bloodhound. That move helps you track blood pools and No Mither makes it so you don't leave any. That's a rather hard counter in my books. Either way, as for the actual topic of the thread I stand by what I said in that it should reduce wiggle time as well as the other things it already does.0 -
NM is not countering exposed in any way, but it shifts the balance.
The killer "paid" balancewise in some way for his one shot ability and the survivor denies this ability by using NM. The effect is still the same, the survivor will go down anyway, but the survivor got additional effects, because he "paid" for it with the lose of a healthstate.See the issue now?
The survivor denies an ability that he paid for and get extra advantages from it.0 -
@Wolf74
This'll be my last post on the topic, but seriously dude, I get your point but you're not grasping any of mine nor acknowledging the additional points made. Either way, your point is only applicable if every person on the team is running No Mither. If even one isn't then the Killer's choice to bring an Expose status debuff was warranted and will potentially pay off. But I'll say it again, even if the entire team chose to ran No Mither the killer would be able to deal with the team easily, as someone who plays Killer every day I'm 100% sure of this as getting an initial hit off on a Survivor as pretty much every killer is very easily done.0 -
I would prefer it if no mither stays a challenge perk.
But some extra BP would be neat for example2
