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Dead Hard isn't the problem.
Concerned killer main here. Hows it going in this horrid state of the game? Terrible huh? Yeah, I get it. Looks like you're having some issues with dead hard. Suddenly became meta right? Yeah I see it too.
You're probably asking yourself ######### are you talking about Pig. Dead hard is incredibly op right now, what are you even doing?
Well...I'm removing that survivor mindset from your brains. And hopefully bringing your attention to the roots of this problem that ya know....get kinda ignored for ages until people rage quit or forget they were problems to begin with.
You look at deadhard right, has some simple problems. None of them are the perk itself, and all of them are the surrounding environment that lead to dead hard becoming more powerful than its ever been.
I'm not gonna type your ear off. I'm gonna give you the clues and let you do the math. Then you decide for yourself, make your choice, either scream for Deadhards Downfall, or use that last breath of yours to speak about a different issue, that may be much more compound and pertinent to your dilemma.
Lets look at the problem, and take it apart, step by step. Lets put everything we know about the perk and its tie ins with other aspects of the game.
Dead Hard is strong....Check.
They added hit validation to dead hard....Check
People use dead hard to extend (press W) chases....Check
Dead Hard is an exhaustion perk.....Check
2 Points that stand out in the above. "They added hit validation to dead hard"
Hit Validation, as it stands right now, is absolutely horrid. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't and you end up swinging>landing a hit>getting the sound notification and scream that you landed a hit>Getting the stun as if you've landed a hit>>>Oh ######### (IT WAS JUST A PRANK BRO YOU DIDN'T HIT HIM AT ALL LOL GET VALIDATED! OR BETTER, GET INVALIDATED HA, GOTTEM) <--- Feels terrible right?
Hit Validation problems>>Get denied a hit at a pallet, get denied hits at windows, get denied hits on a person who is literally just pressing W but the server desyncs gives you the stun and doesn't count the hit, get denied gen grabs, get denied hits after someone comes out of a locker.
^ Did these issues exist before hit validation? No....so....is it really Dead Hards fault?
Alright but what about people using Dead hard to extend chases, extra steps to get a hold of a window vault, extra steps to get a hold of a pallet, extra steps to get to and reach a locker.
Pallet Problems>>>We have vaccume pallets still, and hit validation can and will ruin pallet hits especially after a Dead Hard.
Window Vault problems>>>Hit validation ruins window vault hits.
Chase extender aka hold W>>>Map tiles got changed to the point where things are shorter, smaller, and the gap between loops smaller. A dead hard before this change only granted people an extra maybe 10-20 seconds, Now though because maps are shaped the way they are, you can get a clean 40-60 seconds out of that on top of pallet drops.
The skill itself hasn't changed significantly since patch 2.0 where people could dead hard onto untouchable obstacles and exploit maps. But what really changed? Ahhh right....the surrounding game changed. Hit validation changed the game, Pallet distance changed the game, Map spread changed the game. A perk that wasn't really a huge problem before, is now completely bricking people. But ask yourself this.... do you attack the perk, or do you attack the systems put in place that put the perk over the top? Make your choice.
Comments
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Suddenly became meta right? Yeah I see it too.
I'm afraid DH has been meta for quite some time.
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I'd argue its use went up from mediocre meta, to maybe 75% use in most games. I see it more than sprint burst, I see it more than self care, I see it more than DS. But thats beside the point. Its been relatively the same perk for ages.....why the sudden shift in perception?
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Finally someone who shares similar views and mentioning maps/tiles being the main problem in the game.
I honestly don't understand why most people just focus on perks.
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Bait.
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There's something wrong with DH tho
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Dh might not be THE problem but it's strength and more than anything it's ON DEMAND without any extra requirement is definitely A problem.
No other perk on both sides has this much impact with close to no effort for activation and is on demand usable.
Imagine for example bbq being on demand with the hooked survivor as center. Killer could walk away and suddenly have a 4 second Wallhack on demand of survivor potentially right next to them.
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Are you sure about that?
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DH is a problem though. Yeah tiles, safe pallets and map rng are problems but I can assure you DH makes all those games wayyyyy harder and more unfair simply due to the "press a button for distance"
It means any mindgame you do at a loop they can use DH to correct it most of the time, so you outplay someone and they have a perk to fix it.
Quite often you will be juggling the survivors, and quite often they make it to loops due to DH.
Nerf the distance (keep the immunity to make the perk counter ranged attacks) and most matches would go better. Sure there is still unbalanced things but I'm not having to fight a perk making them all way worse.
DH is the strongest perk, has the most uses and is very easy to use in reality. It needs bringing back in line with the other perks.
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People are Hella gaslighted about hit validation. Nobody wants to listen to reason because they need to get carried. Simple as that. They are afraid to add validation to vaults because they know. But they can pretend it is killer sided all they want and the sheep will eat it up. Yummy! 😋
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Yes
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Dead Hard is one of the worst elements of this entire game.
I might go back to playing Killer if that perk was removed. As long as I have to keep watching my CORRECT gameplay and CORRECT mind games and CORRECT reads get "countered" and "outplayed" by the effing "E" key, I'm out.
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Are you a newer player by chance?
People have been calling out DH waaay before the validations. I can't remember a time where people didn't call dead hard op and i was here since bubba which is like the chapter after David released iirc
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If the game would be equally fair in these points, it would be less of a problem.
Dead hard shouldn't be able to be used to "avoid a hit" and here i mean that you can stand in the killer, dead hard into a wall, and as long as you dead hard, you are safe.
I had the biggest problem to grab people from gens or windows, and even if the tooltip "just a tap of the attack works, dummy" comes up 5000 times, in the end it doesn't work as it should.
The Game itself always will have flaws, and dead hard isn't one of them directly, it is how the game works around the dynamic.
I see a content creator with 5000h saying "oh the game doesn't have a problem" or "just run these perks" while i still haven't unlocked half of the perks i would need to even be able to build it that way. Of course, you don't know all these fancy perks if you played the game for so long that you can play without any perks and still play.
But you can't say "ay i know people who know how to draw, just do as they do, pffft"
All these funny perk combinations where you are like "Oh that seems so fun, let's try" and then realize "oh, i need 1000h to even be able to play it, is insane and purely bad game design.
The tiles and how the maps are built are just a part of this whole problem too. Not every killer or perk needs to be viable on every map. That would be impossible. You always will have a certain "meta".
As a survivor you don't need to "perform" to be useful in every game, as a killer you can have the easiest games too, especially when you are as bad as i am :D (probably low MMR idk, there are no indicators)
I wish, that they come up with a solution because i think they have a plan, they just can't see the whole picture, and other problems like 7 platforms the game is released on, is just one of them. The "we finally make Beta-functions available to see how they will do" is the right step, and that what the PBE should be there for. i hope for more of such improvements in the future.
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Been playing since jump street. Been at red ranks and in that range just as long. Albeit those first 2 months I was hella noob. I think you're missing the point though. Back then, we had much larger maps. A tiny ass dead hard wasn't going to completely flip a match upside down on its ass, even if every survivor ran it, because they would dead hard, and be just out of range of anything before they got popped by a killer at sneezing range. DS was the problem child back then. And I'd argue you'd have a bias motive if you said anything otherwise.
I raise you the same question of if you're new. Or maybe just tunnel visioned, into thinking that that massive shift in tiles didn't also buff DH. Or the fact that survivors can drop pallets behind themselves 5 meters away from the center of the pallet and get sucked over safely to the other side. Or the fact that the general public now has access to an auto dead hard cheat that would have never been possible nor as effective without the miraculous 1 sided gift, that is hit validation, in all of its terrible glory.
The skill has been the same, with the exception of them adding in more obvious animation wind up so you can see it coming.
Its not the perk. Any more than NoED, or Franklins, or people whining about self care before. Its the systems around it that make it overtuned. Not the perk itself. NoED got a buff in strength when maps shrank as well. No more lobbying halfway across a map to find the next person, that distance got cut. Which gets further assisted by NoED's speed boost. Pan forward after that change and survivors are freaking the ######### out about NoED when the skill itself hasn't intrinsically changed at all. Survivors before then would simply either find the hex break it and continue rolling the killer or ditch the hex and leave the map. Self care used to be a problem before they adjusted med kit healing and stacking. Now Self care is in a meh state and boon totems bring people back to a time when self healing could get ridiculously out of hand. And I say this from experience, as when I play survivor, I usually run botany and healing builds, and am guilty of running those cheese healing tactics to heal people in like 4 seconds....or extending chases with insta heals <----Which by the way, were WAAAAAAAAY more powerful than a few frames and a leap from dead hard.
It seems to be, that these "changes" to improve killer quality of life, have done the exact opposite as systems tied into each other get ignored. We lobbied for smaller maps because killers who aren't Nurse, Hillbilly, Oni, Blight, Spirit, can't zoom 50 meters away in 3 seconds. OK fine....you now have to deal with the side effect of smaller tiles <---Which for some reason you've forgotten were the bane of killer before the map changes. People HATED smaller tiles, because survivors could link and chain loops more efficiently without even needing an infinite to abuse. The reset time for those vaults and the time needed to mind game effectively make tripple tiles near infinites. Or maybe you don't remember when survivors were complaining about dead zones (rightfully so considering the map generator) so they made that "small" adjustment to fix it after shrinking maps. I wouldn't expect you do....most people have short term memories here anyway so the big picture is always ignored.
Considering the big picture, what do you hope to gain from a DH nerf? Remove I frames? Lower the Distance? Remove the perk? Won't matter. You're still going to have to deal with what you asked for in the end, which are short scale tiles and longer chases by any survivor with a brain bigger than a pea. Dead Hard will just be replaced by sprint burst meta, and you'll still be crying because your precious M1 can't catch up without wasting 40 seconds of chase time. AKA extension, that is, if you don't get sprint bursted and double backed into losing track of your target, since in most peoples short sighted pleasure, forgot that sprint burst also got buffed with the shrinking of maps. I can be so long gone from a sprint burst it'd blow your mind. And in some cases completely lose a killer shortly after they tap me, run halfway across the map from the double boosted speed and heal by a totem so you can do exactly what you just did again playing this ping pong game all day long. You'll still have to deal with broken hit validation, and you'll still have to deal with tripple tile safety nets.
I'll admit that I'm a bit of a pessimist, but you should probably pick your poison a bit wiser. Or we could keep focusing on DH, while the other hand we can't see is slowly bleeding you out..
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Personally (This is me speaking from my own experience after 6.5k hours) I just don't find Dead Hard that problematic.
I understand what players are saying about using it for distance, but I am also aware that it doesn't always pan out that way. If Dead Hard could be used at ANY given time in the way they describe (for distance) then I could see it. So far, even the ones who successfully use it for distance end up going down seconds later. On some loops you have to know which way to loop, on others (the unsafe pallets) you have to start to try to walk around instead of swinging and essentially force them to drop the pallet one way or the other.
Maps are generally known to have strong AND weak areas. The problem is people just want to focus on the strong ones. Hence why they never talk about those dead zones where it didn't matter what you had, you were just dead.
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Okay, two problems:
- Dead Hard was always the most meta of meta perks.
- It felt balanced around it's validation quirks. Fixing these amounted to a buff.
Now it's omnipresent, and using literally any other ex perk is playing the game sub-optimally.
Here's an issue:
- I'm playing Demo. I'm trying to get a down at a very crucial point in the game. I shred into a survivor by a pallet. Before the change, either I'd hit them or they'd drop the pallet and Dead Hard away and I'd break the pallet. Now, I get validated on the DH and fail to break the pallet.
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I get validated on the DH and fail to break the pallet.
Yeah, this happened to me few times when I played Nemesis, so annoying...
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It is a map issue that works with DH
But the Validation has something to do with it as well
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Dead Hard was OP before hit validation, hit validation only aggravated the problem.
Some years ago DH wasn't meta and nobody considered DH OP because it wasnt so used, I play since 2018 and in 2019 (specially the first half) it was a popular perk, frequently used, but you didn't see the perk equiped in every single match and so frequently equiped by the 4 survivors, the perk started to be overused after the nerf of Balanced Landing in the Patch 3.4.0, which used to be the most popular exhaustion perk, after that nerf, the people started to search for a sustitute for Balanced Landing, some people started using Sprint Burst and others Dead Hard, after that, the people started to notice the potental of the perk for extending chases and its only requeriment of being injured which led to the current situation.
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If the matches lasted long enough survivors could have 20 health states each for all I care
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I mean invincibility as is can NOT be unbroken.
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The skill itself hasn't changed significantly since patch 2.0 where people could dead hard onto untouchable obstacles and exploit maps. But what really changed? Ahhh right....the surrounding game changed. Hit validation changed the game, Pallet distance changed the game, Map spread changed the game. A perk that wasn't really a huge problem before, is now completely bricking people. But ask yourself this.... do you attack the perk, or do you attack the systems put in place that put the perk over the top? Make your choice.
Finally, a common sense post on this forum about DH. People cry out for nerfs, but DH has been the same perk for ages now. It only started being used more frequently when the DS nerf came.
IMO, the problem lies with the Realm Beyond and the way they've changed the maps around. DH FEELS worse to face because of the way it operates on maps now.
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Holy moly, you might want to condens your post a little bit when talking to people. You did not need a 500 word essay to say what you said.
That DS was a bigger problem child then DH in the past doesn't take away that DH was and always has been strong and complained about.
asking me if i'm new when i said in the post you quoted when i started playing is a bit silly.
You keep mentioning map's shrinking. When did that happen? The latest map is still around the avarage of map sizes at around 10000 m2. They have always been around the 8500 m2 and 11000 m2 with a couple of outliner. That hasen't changed at all. I agree people here can have a bit of a short memory but you seem to create memories out of nowhere. I don't even think the realm beyond maps changed in size at all.
Survivors have always complained about Noed. I don't remember self care ever being a problem except vs ancient freddy. To my knowledge it was always a killer perk in disguise when they slapped that 50% speed penalty on it
I never even said to nerf DH, I said it was always complained about. And even then. You're saying we shouldn't look at DH cause there will be other problems when we do? So we'll never fix anything then? That doesn't really make sense now does it.
The poison picking part is also not really convincing cause in the end Dead Hard is a perk and not a base feature. And while it's the most used perk there still is a chance you don't see it. I have played against Sprint burst only survivors and i know it's a lot easier or atleast less frustrating to deal with then dead hard for me.
I feel you're kinda venting against the wrong person here. All i said was that DH was complained about way before hit validation. That wasen't wrong
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I mean yeah hit validation has its own faults... and I can't figure out for the life of me why dead hard was validated before some of the killer issues but anyway, it's not the big reason why killers are quitting. It's just one of many reasons why
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