What’s your opinion on tombstone piece?
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Okay that is a good point but chasing survs as m1 killer is not really a fun experience either. Both sides should have fun during a chase which is often not a thing in dbd depending on a killer.
I would be fine with tp nerf as long as they buff his base kit or something in a meaningful way to push him up.
Otherwise, I say nope.
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Myers as a whole is terribly outdated, and I think the Tombstones show that best. I'd gladly trade them for a significant overhaul to his kit that made him much better overall.
And yeah, M1 killers usually don't do great, but you can still make it work.
More to the point, you can choose to just not play an M1 killer. You can't choose who you go against as Survivor.
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But you can choose which surv to play with any perk if you like that particular surv.
If you like Myers (excluding the fact that he is not that strong) well you are ish out of luck I guess. Play killers you dislike instead to have a chance.
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Wait... People actually think Tombstone is broken? Rofl... What in the? Um... I guess it explains a lot of other strange balance opinions that are seemingly popular.
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Outdated and needs changes, which describes basically everything about Myer's kit.
Don't think it even offers fun gameplay either. You can get prematurely KO'd, jump in a locker then hooked and camped, or go 100% immersed and never get spotted. The first two sucks for survivor and the last sucks for killer.
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But its not really because the high stakes gameplay is part of the flavor, why even run from the killer if its so safe to be around them.
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It's one of 3 Myers addons that's...just too cheap and feels like it's holding him back from meaningful buffs.
I just don't run it. BP sucks and it's unfun to play against.
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Sort of in addition to what I responded above. The idea of "don't interact with the killer" once people figure out its tombstone some how being unfun.
Interacting with the killer is the fun part but you see from most people's posts its only fun if its really safe to do.
The moment its actually threatening and horrifying its not "fun" anymore. People don't want killer interaction they want "safe" killer interaction. Predictability with lots of second chances.
Which is a lackluster experience game wise and makes every game the same dull loopy chase experience. Its an exercise in tedium over thematic gameplay.
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It or mother-daughter ring is the strongest addon in the game.
Unlike Judith's Tombstone, Tombstone piece allows you to delete a survivor at pretty much no disadvantage. No slowdown or anything to speak of.
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No, it's only fun when it's interactive.
Blight and Oni are some of the most dangerous killers in the game to be around, far more so than Michael. Yet they're agreed on to be some of the most fun killers to go against. They're not safe, and yet they're fun.
Tombstone Michael is not fun, and not safe either. He's uninteractive. He walks at you, left clicks and instantly removes you from the match. He's not dreaded because he's sCaaAaaRy, he's dreaded because you're now guaranteed to have a gross frankensteined half-match where you skip the fun part to get right to the dead part as soon as you do anything with the killer.
Again-- what's usually the fun part.
He's not scary, or horrifying. That's you trying to flavor away the fact that your favored playstyle plain blows fat pog logs for everyone that isn't you and appropriately hates it.
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I don't think fun is a measure for DBD balancing. You can flip everything you just said around because running ultra-safe god pallets as an M1 killer isn't exactly fun or interactive either. But guess what? That happens alot more than tombstone myers killing people.
Having more than double the stalk time is not "no slowdown or anything to speak of". It's the survivors fault for feeding myers. Tombstone myers has NO PRESSURE at all until he reaches tier 3. A good team can easily finish the first 3 gens or more in that timeframe.
But here's the thing...most survivor teams are not good. So like how people think Bubba is OP they think tombstone is OP because bad survivors get dunked by it. I say too bad, git gud. Tombstone is fine.
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It literally isn't viable. I am baffled that people think it is overpowered. Like... I hope this is all an intricate attempt to troll because all of the obvious ones have desensitized us.
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That's true, but even with the larger amount of stalk needed it's easy to hit tier 3 at least once a match, and since most Myers players 99 their Tier 3, it's essentially a guaranteed kill.
Also, I actually don't think it needs a nerf because as you said a tombstone myers has nothing until hitting tier 3. I just think it's really strong.
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No one gives a damn how balanced your game is if it isn't fun.
Consequently, I think a gap can be bridged between fun and balance-- it doesn't have to be one or the other. Otherwise, Hag would've been deleted outright.
Don't know why some people scoff at the mere idea of """"""fun""""""" being a factor for changing anything in this video game we play for our entertainment".
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Its mostly up to judith's tombstone's interaction with fragrant tuft of hair. It doesn't work with the tombstone piece. Thus enforcing the stalking penalty of the addon. Saying tier 3 takes 400% more stalk with tombstone + fragrant hair SOUNDS like a big deal, but in reality if you are a good myers you'll spend most of the game in tier 3, relatively speaking.
However I feel like if both addons were used for their purpose (Evil Incarnate achievement) that survivors could more ably appreciate the skill it takes to manipulate the stalk while using the piece more than a myers using tombstone + fragrant hair since you basically have to perfectly manage the stalk and timing to make it work.
Otherwise I see that they are both equal in being able to 99% tier 3 and instantly kill a survivor. The only real difference is how you handle which is which afterwards. Although I do wish if you were using one of these addons that his chase music would increase in intensity or something so a survivor could reasonably know that a myers is using the piece or full tombstone besides relying on an inaccurate animation... mistake? Accident? Which only applies to one of them.
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Hey each to their own but it is interactive just in a more intense way.
I for one really enjoy facing tombstone myers as survivor because its flee or be killed not just flee to waste time.
Chases often feel so safe as survivor that there really is no threat from the killer at all. Myers takes that and tips it on its head. You can't even finish a gen in his face because you may die and that's how it should be.
I'm scared of the terror radius rather than wait till the last minute and here comes the loopy train. Its a much better game.
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Because it's a PvP game and people in this community seem to forget that PvP is zero sum. Especially an elimination game like DBD. One side having more fun directly equates to the other not having fun.
I read some post on here about "rah rah got tunneled with my fun build" when the build was like Head on, Breakout, Power Struggle and some other perk that only exists to annoy the killer. And yeah, having fun with that build means the killer is going to be miserable. Does it stop anyone from running it? Haha. Lmao.
So why is tombstone any different?
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You know if you added this you would have to remove some of the draw backs. If it takes him forever to hit t3 is slowed down and had to fully stake a survivor it would be pointless to run because the game would be over before you fully stalk one person.
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But can you see why everyone else hates it?
"People tend to have more fun when winning and less fun when losing" is true.
"Therefore, ######### everyone and don't even try to make it fun" is not a good place for this thought process to lead.
You can't make losing fun for everyone, but you at least need to make it as fair and interactive when you can, because "I lost due to being bad" and "I lost due to total bullshit I had no control over" hit at completely different severities.
Tombstone piece falls squarely into the latter. It breaks the conventions of the game over its knee, skips the fun, makes the enjoyable part of the game an 'avoid at all costs' and generally feels like a total robbery.
I'd rather it got evaporated from existence and Michael got some well-needed buffs to rocket him up the tier lists, but I get the feeling you want an outlet than you want something reasonable, so you've still got it.
Go nuts, bud.
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I don’t really like the add on. I have told this story before but back when Hawkins was still a map, I was playing solo and my idiot teammates gave him all the stock. I had only seen him once in that match when he went past me. Then we intercepted when for some reason he didn’t have a Terror radius and boom. Dead in 3 minutes. Luckily not all Myers use the add on and he’s usually A tier for me on killers I like to play against along with pyramid head blight and Oni. Unfortunately after I found out after that add on, Id be there first one chase and just go into a locker to make sure im not out of the game quickly even thought it takes a long time for him to get to tier 3. The add on is like the hatch before it got changed recently
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The problem with using fun as a balance point is fun is completely subjective what I find fun and you find fun could be complete opposite how are you supposed to balance around both opposite ideas of fun? You could ask 20 different people what they consider fun and get 20 different answers how you balance around that? Fair isn't subjective like fun you can ask was there counter play, did I mess up,did they make a really good play and thats why x happend.
Balancing for fun is a guaranteed way to make a bunch of people mad because they don't think that it's fun that way and you can't argue with them because they are right because what they find fun is completely there opinion.
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Some people like stepping in bear traps and getting punched in the face.
Others like playing against old Legion.
There's always outliers. Doesn't suddenly mean fun is this invisible mythical force we just can't fathom or comprehend.
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Yeah you could look at the extremes only but that doesn't change the fact that fun is completely subjective and balancing around an idea that can and will change for almost every person you ask isn't a good idea. Where's the middle ground in what's fun and what isn't. I can say DH isn't fun because I just don't find it fun to think I have a hit and them DH and have to continue chase for 5 more seconds and that's a legitimate reason in terms of it been fun.
Btw I'm not saying they shouldn't take fun into consideration but it shouldn't be the number 1 thing you base balance on.
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Yeah but it just seems so silly and childish to hate on it because you might potentially get eliminated by it in an elimination game.
There is this real mentality that it all has to be fair all the time or somehow its not fun, but in asymmetric survival horror its not really meant to be fair.
The "fairer" it gets the more boring it gets because I want Halloween not Scooby Doo. Like I said people want safe chases not intense scary chases and that just sucks gameplay wise given the game's theme.
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Neither am I.
Taking fun into account is very clearly possible because it very definitely happens, but my problem starts when people scoff and put up quotation marks whenever """"fun"""" factors into changing anything, like it's some fairy tale told by liars to baby game developers.
Except people clearly can figure out what's generally fun and what isn't somehow, because we're still playing video games for some reason. Hope the "fun doesn't mean anything for balancing" crowd enjoy their validation and Dead Hards.
And you might be surprised to hear that i'm in favor of changing DH and a lot of other things that absolutely suck for killer, for balance and for fun.
You're playing a horror game. Everyone else is playing a multiplayer game. Asym or not, you play against other players and expect a fair shot.
You're here for an entirely different reason than almost every other player. But as long as you're having fun, go wild.
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The thing is fun been the number1 reason for change opens up a bag of worms because if fun is the reason for change then those crazy outliers you pointed out have a valid argument in why things need to be changed because there veiw of fun is just as valid as anyone else and where do you draw the line at what's ok because it's considered fun.
Alot of times people act like that because this isn't fun is there whole argument and everyone else that finds it fun or doesn't have an issue can also make a completely valid argument. So now you have multiple conflicting arguments but they are all still valid based on fun.
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Thanks for this comment, I was about to write the same.
I will play an unbalanced but fun game any time but a unfun game is sure to get hit with the "uninstall" very quickly. Same for any game mechanic. Now we could argue about what is "fun" but getting killed instantly by a Myers you had no interaction with is just unfun for the most of us...
I agree that I would like to see Myers Tombstone Piece with a condition. However nothing like "hooks" or something like that, but a more Myers condition:Only a survivor that has been stalked empty/mostly empty can be killed. That way first of all only the person who fed him well can get killed, thus eliminating the "no-interaction mori" part. Also the survivors will now have a chance to outplay Myers by running and blocking line of sight. Sure, sooner or later he will get his Mori ready but until then you can play hide and seek.
People who defend this add-on are right that it fits Myers. Yes, it does. However where is the Myers part when you skip the stalking straight to the Killing?
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I'm not advocating for fun being the #1 balancing factor, i'm just advocating for it being a major consideration along with game balance.
You can have both. It's tough, but doable.
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It's overpowered and quite frankly I was shocked that it didn't get nerfed in 5.3.0.
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It is really tough especially if you nerf or rework TP you got to remember your taking something fun away from the killer. I do think alot of people forget that in the argument when then say it's not fun it needs to change, your making a change because x isn't fun for survivors but now you have taken something fun away from the killer.
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The open hand is tied to current movement speed, not the Add-on.
You can have a Myers without tombstone walk really slowly on joystick and his hand will be open as well.
That's also why his hand is open in Tier 1, it's because he moves really slowly (105 %)
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Yeah and in that lies the problem. People would be fine with almost anything if the killer was a really hard to beat computer.
But because its PVP everyone's sensibilities get hurt constantly and we have to pander to the sore losers and make everything fair rather than exciting.
I hope they make custom game bots one day because frankly PVP blows.
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I'm sure people also had fun with Iri head, old MoM, old DS, old Balanced, pre-nerf Moris, Keys and Instaheals, but taking something that a side might find fun away is baggage that clearly hasn't stopped good changes from happening.
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I don't understand why you're not just playing a single player horror game.
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I agree with all those been great examples I'm just saying we need to be careful balance because of fun or unfun is a slippery slope. I think the biggest issue with TP seems to be that your teammates an idiot and you end up paying for it. I understand stand why that is frustrating but that is also the nature of a team game take fps for example if your doing awesome but you have teammates that just keep dying your going to pay for it even know your doing great.
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And make myers even more weak ?
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I don't mind it but I can see the problems.
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I think that wouldn't be to bad if they lowered the amount of stalk to get to t3 and maybe tweek his ms. This way it removes the annoying part but gets buffs in a different area.
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Yes
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Yes.
And I and a lot of other people seem to agree that TP is part of that list that BHVR simply missed and ought to correct.
The problem is the abruptness and speed of it-- you don't know they have TP until you've been booted back to the main menu. When you pay for a teammate's mistake, you go on the ground and onto a hook-- you could potentially die on your first hook, but at least have a chance to play the rest of the match out.
TP bypasses all of that. One left click and the entire game gets forcefully skipped for you. No downs, no hooks, no saves, no chase, no match. Usually because some peanut on your team stared at a gen and fed Myers 'till he 99'd his tier 3. It's one of the few things introduced in the Halloween update that wasn't severely overhauled from its incredibly silly release version.
I don't know what seems to exempt it from the list I just gave.
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I've seen a few people say add a hook requirement which I think would be ok if they bring down the amount to get to t3 and maybe mess with the ms.
If I had to guess I would say it's because it only catches one survivor by surprise and then can be countered pretty well just a guess though.
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There is nothing fair about dbd and it will never be fair imo.
Tp fits right in.
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I say just turn it into a whole different kind of addon and give Myers buffs across the board.
If the way you play around it is to immediately hop onto his shoulder in a 3v1, it's not healthy.
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Kek
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The problem with that imo is you have to do it at the same time you can't take the addon away then wait 1+ years to buff him and I'm pretty sure he's not anywhere close to the next ones getting messed with that should be GF and Legion. When was the last killer rework?
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If you read through the thread the number 1 complaint is “I die to tombstone sometime in my first interaction with the killer and that’s annoying”. That’s not a terrible thing that’s just the nature of the game.
One of the best deaths I’ve had yet has been tombstone Myers on the game map. They were hanging in the shadows by a hooked survivor I walked around a corner going for the unhook and bam was grabbed and killed. It was a great jump scare that really got me.
That’s kind of the key, basically people play a game where they could die but then get pissy and tantrum when they do. I don’t get pissy when I die because it’s a game and if I die thematically to a mori then all the better because the animations are great. since the nerf you rarely see them anymore it’s a shame.
To counter tombstone piece the goal becomes not chase and loop as usual but deny Myers stalk it changes the game up and that’s refreshing.
I think tombstone piece and tombstone are some of the best add ons given how they change the game up. Purple and iri add ons should be impactful and these are.
If it makes you angry to die to it then maybe you need to step back a moment because it really shouldn’t. Every time they water down strong add ons because people get pissy about dying the game gets more generic. The game play gets stale as every game is the same loop, pallet, rinse repeat regardless of killer or power.
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Because the add-on is Very Rare and one add-on alone isn't gonna make people suddenly play that killer like hell.
That's probably why they haven't changed that and Rusty Shackles aswell.
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yes, that is why i said it would drain them quicker than usual, so you'd reach that killing point a lot faster.
you'd get less overall Tier 3s available, but when you get them there is a good chance that at least one person is going to be killable.
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Wish it allowed you to mori people who are fully stalked instead.
I have no issue with it if i'm the one who he stalked out but it is kinda sad if i just insta die while interacting with the killer for 2.5 seconds
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Love it!
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