Isn't adding a decaying MMR for killers incentivising players to simply not play until it lowers?!

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Kill_Yr_Idol83
Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
edited January 2022 in General Discussions

Hear me out, I'm a retired killer main of 4+ years who has recently quit playing the game because of how absolutely dreadful it is to play killer these days since the SBMM was introduced (I still think it was one of the single most worst decisions ever made for this game).

Now I've been looking for any reason to jump back into playing the game since I miss it and truly do (sorry, did) love playing however isn't adding a decaying MMR mechanic only going to incentivize killers to quit playing until their hidden MMR bracket drops? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't part of the reason for MMR (as ridiculous as it is for a game like DbD) was to make for quicker lobbies or to welcome more players to play the role as killer because the amount of people that play survivor far outweighs those that play killer?!?! I mean, in theory, a decaying MMR sounds like a good idea but with MMR still being these hidden numbers we're unaware of and have no idea how much time it'll take to lower ones MMR, this system just seems counterintuitive.

Bottomline, this is not the fix for killers that'll patch the long term issue with SBMM that the majority of us hate. It's still a broken system and this experimental idea will just hurt the game in practice. Killers will take long breaks to get their MMR to drop, lobbies will take longer to queue and (most) everyone will still despise SBMM because all matchmaking ever needed was a tougher criteria to gain pips with the scoring events so noobs weren't carried into ranks they didn't belong in and attention to how SWFs affect the game.

SBMM is still bs ✌

Comments

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,553
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    You can easily force-lower your MMR by letting survivors go or letting killers kill you. That's a way easier and more efficient strategy to employ than putting down DBD for a long time so that you can have a few easy games when you pick it back up months later.

    I'm more worried that taking a long break from DBD will put me in with potato rank survivors. Everything else about this looks nice, and it's not any different from how the game used to decay your rank by a tier each month and you'd be brown rank after a several month hiatus. No, this doesn't really fix any of the issues with MMR, but it's not marketed as a fix for that; it's just an allowance for players to shake off the rust if they haven't played in ages.

  • Zozzy
    Zozzy Member Posts: 4,759
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    The pip requirements were so easy that i couldn't depip past rank 9 with the old system if everyone died from being slugged with 0 hooks.

    It would have been a better system if the pip requirement was the same as holding rank 1 from yellow and up. Brown should have stayed a little easier though. The problem is these devs think the rank is part of the reason people play and wanted to keep it easy for that feel good feeling.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,142
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    While people abusing a system for nefarious purposes (in this case, stomping newbies) is a concern, a decaying MMR is a very normal, standard mechanic- I was honestly very slightly taken aback that this implementation didn't actually have it built in when it was launched, more than being worried at them announcing it as a plan.

    People who misplace their displeasure with the game's balance onto MMR are going to be trying to lower that number anyway, so I don't really see that as a viable reason not to implement a pretty sane, normal addition to the system.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    "If they stop playing until their MMR lowers, they'll wind up back where they should be within a few games"

    Should be? SBMM has never been an efficient system in any way and you're response is made under the assumption that it works. And yes, the game has gotten "that bad" for casual killer mains because of SBMM. Enough so that we're putting the game down. One only needs to spend a few minutes on the forums, social media, Twitch and/or polls to see how much the majority of players despise it.

    And am I worried about the decaying MMR implementation being exploited? No. I'm just pointing out the flaws that it will cause killers to take a break from playing to focus on other games while their MMR drops (which BHVR won't want) to further help put pressure on the devs to overhaul SBMM.

  • throwaway79465468797
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    Theres just no way around it really.. they have to deal with SWFs if they want to keep MMR in the game. Or it will stay just like this with MMR and meta perks

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    Two things:

    1) It's easier to not play at all than to waste your time throwing a match to drop your MMR.

    2) It's not about having easy matches. It's about having fair matches. Killers MMR shouldn't be based on kills, it should be based on hooks. Having a couple good matches shouldnt put killers at a cap where they're playing against survivors who are far outskilled than they are, making every single match a sweatfest.

    It's a small step in the right direction that unfortunately has its flaws as well.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 8,996
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    I doubt the decaying MMR is going to decay very fast and there's likely going to be a period of time before it even starts to decay. At least if the devs have any sense about implementing it. It could take at least a few months to see the decay start matching you with lower mmr survivors and even then a few wins will likely put you back where you were anyways.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    Again, it seems like everyone's response is under the assumption that I'm speaking towards having easier matches or stomping on newbies. It's not news that SBMM is completely broken for killers and I'm wondering if I'm talking to survivor mains at this point.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
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    I've never played as a survivor, so that's a kind of funny assumption. Maybe the question you're trying to ask just makes no sense?

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    Agreed. It's just another unfun decision in a game that was made unfun from SBMM in the first place. For killers anyways. I don't find the role as survivor changed in any way.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,142
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    Not really, I've only just started playing survivor myself- been playing almost exclusively Killer before then.

    The SBMM isn't completely broken, it's just not very good. At the very least, it's far more consistent than the emblem system was.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    Is this bait? If you can't make sense around what I was saying in my post than that says more about you than it does me ✌

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
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    You ask "won't decaying MMR make Killers quit", which would lead to suggesting Killers want lower MMR, which leads to my first post: they'll wind up exactly where they should have been (by MMR) when they come back. If people are quitting because MMR is decaying, you have a problem elsewhere, because they would rather not play for months.

    But MMR should decay, as someone who hasn't played for six months isn't going to be as good as the same person that has.

    In essence: no, it doesn't incentivise not playing, because the only thing that incentivises not playing is having something else more fun to do in the interim.

  • Puddles
    Puddles Member Posts: 95
    edited January 2022
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    Playing high MMR is boring, I want chill matches, not sweaty matches.

    As survivor you can suicide to make sure MMR will go down.

    And as killer you can just wait survivors finish gens and you open the gate, letting 4 ppl out will lower the MMR.

  • Astral88
    Astral88 Member Posts: 63
    edited January 2022
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    I absolutely agree. SBMM is bullshit. Having every game a super sweaty match as a killer just made me to retire the game, cause I don’t wanna sweat out the ######### out off of me and stress myself so much. I’m barely playing this days due to my work and that’s ok. But if I come back to the game and need to stress myself about such sweaty games, I’m just going to spend my time different as it is rn.


    The old system was much better. But unfortunately the developer don’t care. Instead we get “great additional” content, new killers, new outfits; but what are you gonna fix with that stuff? Basically nothing. You are just nailing the coffin of the game - unfortunately!


    It’s a great game, but with your SBMM, new animations and not implementing properly cheat protection and the way to report cheaters easily, you just killed it.


    No one’s gonna spend 10+ mins for every cheater they face just for a report. That’s time ripping.


    i don’t see a future for this game if you keep going this route.


    Flat joke incoming: You don’t behave appropriate Behaviour. Listen to your remaining community, cause within a half year you’ve lost 50k players accordingly to Steam. Congratulations. :D

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
    edited January 2022
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    ...Why would we not want our MMR to rise?

    Slumming it at low MMRs gets very old, very fast.

    This just means that I won't get my face pushed in by a bunch of 14 year olds on drugs every time I take a break.

    SBMM at least made smurfing a million times more time consuming, it was so easy that even fog whisperers were doing it under ranks.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    You all see to not get the point which is bizarre. I never said I or anything else wants to slum it at low MMR and stomp on newbies. Problem with SBMM as is, is that MMR rises way too fast cause its based on kills and not hooks which is not an accurate measure of one's skills. You then as killer, get stuck at higher MMR matches that eliminates all casual play from the game. People love to say that it evens itself out eventually but after a year its proven to not be the case. It's just one sweaty competitive match after another which sucks the fun out of the game entirely.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
    edited January 2022
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    It's been like five months.

    Being based entirely on Kills vs Escapes is certainly not helping with how people would rather high-level play shakes out, but it's not been out for a year yet.

  • Brimp
    Brimp Member Posts: 2,788
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    Depends on how much mmr decays per day but if its like any other games.... It 100% wouldn't decay fast enough to go from coordinated 4 mans constantly to brand new players within a week.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    I'm talking on average with all the tests included but thanks for the math. Did that make you feel better?

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    True. Which is just another example of what a sh-t system SBMM is and why keeping the figures hidden isn't helping community morale.

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,096
    edited January 2022
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    Maybe because your original point was:

    "SBMMR sucks, will this new feature incentive killer to take breaks to lower their MMR?"

    And the answer is, no. If you want to lower your MMR to tolerable levels, throwing games or playing like me (8hooks/0kills) is way more efficient and fun.

    No one will take week long breaks because of some arbitrary MMR decay feature.

    And if they take a break because the game isn't fun for them, then they take the break to get some distance to the game and not to lower their MMR.

    It's just a nice side effect (nearly every ranked pvp game already has implemented) but most definitely not the reason for the break.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    You say that the answer is no like it's fact when I for one will totally take a break and play other games Ive been meaning to get around to, while my MMR decays. I've been playing for almost 5 years and throwing matches or playing for hooks instead of kills, imo, is just as boring as being stuck at a higher skill cap, playing sweaty competitive matches.

    And no, you're response didn't clarify the fact that nowhere have I insinuated wanting to slum it at low ranks or stomp on new players. There's no happy medium in this game anymore. The unpredictability of matches pre-SBMM was what made it fun. You could play casually because ranks were so varied. Being stuck in a bracket where the game decides who is at your skill level is absolutely garbage when the SBMM the devs implemented doesn't even base your performance on skill unlike other games that have this kind of system in place and as killer, you reach a cap far too easy and get placed with survivors who can run circles around killers in their sleep.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
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    I wonder, will it get lower only when you don't play at all?

    or just don't play that one killer?

    or just play only survivors...

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    I haven't seen that, at all.

    And...proven? Where has it been proven? Be as specific as you can.

    SBMM isn't perfect, but it's far better than ranks.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,514
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    To answer your question:

    Adding in decaying MMR will not push people to de-rank any more than the current system already does.

  • Mringasa
    Mringasa Member Posts: 980
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    I take longer breaks, couple months up to about 7 or 8, at a time. Having a decaying MMR will be pretty nice just to shake the rust off.

    People are going to abuse any system that is in place. It might only be a few, but there will always be someone who finds a way to "cheat" any system. That's just how things work, irl and in video games.

    At least it gives those of us who take the advice of the devs and "Play something else for a while" a bit of a breather when we come back to the game. I find it a bit rough, especially the first couple days back, just getting used to the sounds and notifications. Especially if I've been binging on something like Stellaris or similar that isn't very action packed and requiring immediate responses.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    Haven't seen what? That your MMR raises too fast? That you hit a cap where it's just a competitive sweatfest? That your MMR never truly evens out? What part haven't you seen, at all?

    When I say it hasn't proven to even out is as follows: Take Ghostface. I played him at the beginning SBMM was implemented. Had a couple too easy matches against noobs, a couple good matches and some bad against casual and/or medium tier MMR players (where I should be) and then ever since those last couple good games played at 5am, it's been nothing but one sweatfest after another against survivors with 2000+ hours playing at the top of their game. I've tried throwing matches, farming matches, AFKing through matches,, you name it and my MMR has not lowered one bit. Every and all matches I play with Ghostface since SBMM has been sweaty and competitive with top tier survivors with their profile stats to back it up.

    So yeah, that has proven to me that SBMM is bullsh-t and this idea that it'll even out is a lie.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    I've found that early morning is where games get really sweaty.

    MMR is designed to produce 'fair' games, where each survivor has a roughly 50% chance of escaping.

    Now, I can definitely see how this would make things sweaty for high MMR players, because they are playing against other high MMR players, as well as people ultra high MMR who the system can't realistically match with other players. But this comes with the benefit of ideally making things a bit more even for newer and intermediate players.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    And that is where SBMM fails for so many of us long time players and killer mains that prefer to play casually but are stuck in a higher MMR bracket. It caters to the newer player base as well as survivors (especially with gameplay imbalance issues) and the system fails miserably for killers. Playing casual doesn't mean never securing a kill and to do as such nowadays, with the way SBMM is, you have to play incredibly sweaty and competitive at every second of the match with no false moves. It's boring, incredibly unfair and simply not fun. Survivors now stomp killers which should never be a thing. I get that the design of MMR was to make matches seem fair but because of the imbalances within the game (SWFs) and the way SBMM has been implemented (escapes/kills instead of scoring events/hooks) its been the exact opposite for killers.

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,096
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    Okay first point, you taking a break isn't because your MMR decays but because you don't have fun and want to play something else.

    The MMR decay might be useful but saying it is the sole reason for the brake is a fallacy in my eyes.


    Second point, yes I didn't say you want to lower MMR to slam anybody. But saying that the old system was fun and dandy is also absolutely wrong. Yes it was more fun as killer but on the cost of low skill survivor. Survivor that never should have been in red or purple ranks to begin with. The balance/frequency between hard and easy matches was better, not the balance between killer and survivor side.

  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279
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    Only if sbmm was working correctly. So we dont need to be afraid of that

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 1,889
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    Yeah, except this is not "perfectly same MMR", since it equalizes escapes with skill.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
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    The fact there's no MMR decay is worse, though.

    That MMR implementations are based off win vs loss is normal; that this turns it into a series of 1v1s and leads to a game state most people don't enjoy as the most practical strategy for a win does not do it any favours.

    But all of those are irrelevant to the question posed. MMR decaying won't incentivise people to not play; wanting to play something else more will. Having MMR decay is normal and expected, not something people will try and game.

  • Khelendrose2020
    Khelendrose2020 Member Posts: 207
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    The decay is minimal, meaning within 3 to 4 games you will be back where you were. That said, I've been a killer main since six months after the game released and have retired as well. SBMMR is the primary reason for it.

    I jumped in this past weekend after a 2 month break and could only stomach about an hour of gameplay.

    The devs are killing the game and are too proud, or blind, to admit it.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    Preach!! Regardless of the questions I posed in my original post about the decaying MMR, SBMM was the final nail in the coffin. It too made me quit this game after 4+ years and countless of hundreds of dollars on DLCs and cosmetics.

    I'd love to return to the game but like you said, the devs are too proud to admit that SBMM was a massive misstep that has caused a recognizable amount of players to quit, than to actually do something about it.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 1,889
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    MMR decay would be bad for solo players, since for solos the higher MMR - the better teammates - the easier games. SoloQ players have to pay with sweat and blood for that sweet MMR increase (escaping in soloQ is a matter of chance, mostly depending on your teammates), hoping to get out of the low MMR pit, and with MMR decay they will be afraid of stopping playing the game.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
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    Of course, if they stop playing for six months, they'd probably be dragging down their team at their higher MMR, so the decay is still appropriate.

    Again, not saying that MMR doesn't need obvious improvements, I'm saying that MMR decaying does not incentivise people to quit, or reward them for quitting, or exist as a bad thing. That MMR was released without it is frankly baffling, as it's generally a pretty basic function.

  • SunsetSherbet
    SunsetSherbet Member Posts: 1,607
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    They will NEVER deal with SWF as in weakening it or removing it. I would put my entire life on it.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    joke premise, since my bottom floor MMR killers still get paired with sweat squads since they're vastly outnumbering high MMR killers and we can't have them have to wait for matches now, can we?

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968
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    Well in fairness, when this MMR was announced the dev's straight up said that killer MMR would not be linked to each other. However when it was released it was QUICKLY revealed that the /devs straight up lied/ and not only is all the killer MMR interconnected, you can never ever reduce your MMR unless you do it for all killers simultaneously because your highest MMR killer drags all of your other killers up to it and never the other way around.

    Because of this I've literally stopped engaging with their MMR system by straight up never killing anyone.

    And I have to tell you, it literally means nothing because at a certain point the system just widens its search parameters so you get sweaty/baby teams no matter how high or low your MMR is.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
    edited January 2022
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    They somehow found a way to take a system that works in 99% of games its applied in, and instead make it worse than the old rank system they used to have. Which was already pretty bad.

    Literally the biggest thing SBMM had going for it was that I would have a chance of a decent match with a new and/or underequipped killer.

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    I totally agree with you and that's why I don't even bother throwing matches because unless you plan to throw at least 50 matches across all killers, it doesn't make a lick of difference. It's such bullsh-t and is why I'd like to know how much the MMR will decay by simply not playing.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968
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    Personally I've started only going for 8 hooks myself, I've found that its a lot less stressful right off the top knowing you already cut your burden by 1/3rd. And then afterwards with all that extra time I can usually farm up all my points. It also helps me meme around more with teams when they realize I'm not lethal despite the 8 hooks.

    Overall, a lot more satisfying of an experience and when people are still sweaty despite how chill I am I just sit still and wait for them to finish.

  • KateDunson
    KateDunson Member Posts: 714
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    Basically doing the same lmao, the only exception is that i kill one guy at the end to keep MMR the same and don't be bored by face completely new survivors indefinitely

  • Kill_Yr_Idol83
    Kill_Yr_Idol83 Member Posts: 213
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    I started doing that before I quit the game all together. I'd play super chill and the minute I notice survivors playing super sweaty and/or are clearly better skilled than me, I'd park my ass in front of the exit gates and wait for the last gen to be done and open it. High skilled survivors love sh-tting on killers especially since SBMM and I'm not about continuing to take the abuse anymore. Before SBMM was introduced it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968
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    I just keep one killer with supremely high MMR (Huntress), this causes the MMR of all my other killers to go up passively. But ultimately I've noticed it really doesn't do much either way because at a certain point at night its whoever is on is what you get.