General Discussions
General Discussions
Devs, can you show us the stats for killer pick rates and kill rates on the top MMR?
Is there any reason you can't?
You did it with emblem base matching.
I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Comments
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It is probably not different enough to merit making the chart outside of cleaning up outliers. I would be very interested too, though.
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The data all exists in the same dataset. It would literally take them 15 seconds. Filter FOR SSBM greater than or equal to 1800. Done.
Edit: Based on Nurses stats alone we know it should be SIGNIFICANTLY different.
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Yeah, I imagine Nurse and Pig are like flipped. But beyond that, I do not have many guesses. I think Spirit is overrated, not sure if people still drone on about her being top 3 or not. Blight, I could see being way up there. Really safe guesses there besides my controversial Spirit take. My personal experience with high mmr is limited to Bubba and Freddy. I could see Leatherface staying about the same, I think Freddy drops like a brick.
The more I think about it, you are right, the list is likely drastically different. I guess this spread was the closest to everyone being 50% so they went with it? Maybe consistency from prior lists? No clue.
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Plus the average # of hooks, counting single hook deaths as a single hook for accuracy.
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honestly IMHO almost eveyone is Top (soft cap) MMR considering how easy it is to get to that level. so what you are going against would and how you are doing is what it is like at top MMR.
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Probably the same reason why they didnt show survivor:killer ratio in playerbase
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Using Nurse as a justification for more stats is pretty weak, since she is the only Killer who is very different from all other Killers.
Even if you include all of this, people would still find reasons to see why the stats are not true.
With the current stats we have, you can at least see that playing Killer is not as bad as people claim it to be.
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Most likely killer mains will be offended by high killrates and spam forum and socials with angwy posts and excuses so bhvr doesn't wanna show it to prevent that kind of mental breakdown
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Interesting, you think the kill rates are "better" at high mmr? I always assumed they would be lower given people like Otz need to play like I do to 4k at those ranks.
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The current stats we have don't tell us anything, because it lumps every player together, and both SWF and solo at the same time. These are the stats produced in all of a few button clicks in Excel, specifically excluding every way to actually glean useful information from it.
What good does it turn out to be if the spread hovers around 50% on the whole, if every killrate except Nurse dropped by 10% or more once you excluded low-MMR games? If some killers were getting 70% winrates or something at low ranks, but then dropping down to 40% or 30% the higher up you go, then that's not good by basically anyone's standards--particularly because what the people playing those Killers are likely to be experiencing is stomp, stomp, get stomped, get stomped, stomp, get stomped as they bounce back and forth between MMR bands based largely on the balance of the Killer.
Really, the best thing after raw stats would be an interactive graph of kill rates against MMR (honestly the X axis doesn't even have to be labelled if they wanted to keep that obscure), with error bars if it's granular enough to give per-player feedback. Then we would have data that actually tells us something informative.
Naive averaging of your entire category across disparate strata is terrible.
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For sure killers like Oni, Spirit, Blight, Pinhead, Nurse have high killrate at high mmr. I mean Otz stomps your "high mmr" perkless and with bare hands
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It would be still interesting to see it, even if just nurse is special at first glance. We can't know until we see actual data. Btw, devs mentioned that Twins also has high kill rate at high MMR.
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But if they do, their kill rate does go over an average of 3, doesn't it?
Considering the rank difference between kill rates under the emblem system was quite considerable, I wouldn't be too surprised if high MMR actually showed higher kill rates. I know people seem convinced that the game is survivor sided, but there's never been any substantiation of that idea beyond the anecdotal or theoretical.
And even if 'playing like you do' is a requirement, that still impacts the overall balance. Only way you could argue for better balance for non-camping/tunnelling/slugging playstyles is if those playstyles were nerfed, and we already know the forums don't want that.
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As far as i see it, the kill rates mean nothing. Because what does a 3 kill mean, when the killer got 3 hooks during the whole match? That he´s OP and needs a nerf?
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Good point, I always just assume most killer mains write it off as boring, or that you are an awful human being, etc. However, if high mmr killers are committed to the lifestyle, I certainly suspect the kill rates would be respectable. Especially from killers who actually know what they are doing when it comes to playing dirty. No offense to Otz or whatever, but you know, getting all emotional while playing and the "wait and see" attitude really fetter your ability to properly play in an optimal fashion. I am sure he is capable of it, but he just despises doing it which makes it a tad sloppy, in my opinion.
I know I am biased, but I genuinely do not believe removing these playstyles would result in balance. I know people don't want to hear it, but I am nothing special. Survivors literally just throw games for me. Not going to lie. It is the cold hard truth. If I couldn't force them to do that, the competent survivors would eviscerate me. But this is all hypothetical, I suppose we will never truly know!
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But they are removing those playstyles. Basekit BT is on the horizon and also something against face camping.
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I don't think basekit BT was confirmed, it was just confirmed that there was no basekit DS at the moment. And BT is a very ineffectual perk, so that wouldn't fix much. The facecamping fix, we'll have to see what they've come up with, but I think the devs went on record to say they aren't doing anything about camping as a whole, just facecamping. And Slugging remains unaddressed.
Pretty sure the devs are content to leave those strategies in.
Oh no, removing those strats would be a huge upset to balance, but as long as killers can employ those tactics, there's no point in balancing around killers that don't use them. Removing them would put the game in a position where it could be balanced, is the point.
Think of it as a similar issue to the solo/swiffer divide, but just the killer variant: The clean/dirty divide.
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He repeated it twice, that they have no plans on making DS basekit. While making BT basekit isn´t mentioned specifically, it really looks odd, to say the least.
Slugging was "solved" with the last chapter. Directly by Exponential but also indirectly by Pentimento and Plaything, which will both trigger Soulguard.
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What I see is the killer experience described by both the top and bottom skill levels negating one another.
50% can be achieved by the most arguable means. This discredits more enjoyable interactions as just unnecessary effort while also reinforcing the negative as the ideal.
Proper hook to death ratio shows slightly more context than just kills.
If sbmm is even; 2k 2 hook Bubba is not on par with a killer that actually wins 6 chases. Unfortunately the data they are balancing with says otherwise.
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Yes, Killer is OP when players are new.
I think we all knew that.
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I'm pretty sure the soft cap is no where near top mmr.
The soft cap would probably be the end of low mmr and the start of mid mmr.
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Yeah, but the MM doesn't recognize MMR higher than that.
Even if you had 3000 MMR, it'd still match you with 1900 MMR players because that's the cap.
Ergo, those stats would be massively skewed.
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If you are 3000 you will only get matched with 1900 if the queue time has exceeded a certain time.
Or like they said in the q&a when a lobby is suddenly missing a player and they need to fill it in quickly.
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Freddy is so rare for me. All i have Bubba, Huntress, Nurse, Blight, Wraith and Pinhead. I am facing with this killer more than others.
Kills mean everything to devs. Just look last changes:
Spirit, Freddy and Pinhead nerfed because of kill rates. Slinger nerfed for no reason i guess? He had high rates? I don't remember.
Nurse Iri add-on buffed because she has lowest rates for years. And probably they finally fixed her bugs for same reason. Wraith buffed first because he has low rates but then he nerfed because buff made him good killer? Killers can not be good!
Anyway if kills are important, we all should be Bubba main. Camp first hook and then get another hook at end game. 2 kills & 2 escapes. Great balance!
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Perk band-aids are not a solution, and even less so if they're reliant on the killer's perk loadout.
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So how dou you even determine who is high mmr? Top 5%? Why are the players of 6% not in high MMR? And this goes on and on.
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theoretically, twins are as well. from the stream, we know theyre garbage at low/mid and "absolute monsters" at high
i dont particularly care either way- i wish theyd stop giving us stats so people stop making flawed conclusions from them, honestly- but itd be kinda nifty just to see if there was a difference.
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It’s obviously got some differences, such as Nurse not having the lowest kill rate at top MMR.
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There must be differences. They just said that SWF at high MMR has a 15% higher escape rate than solo. If you apply that to the existing kill rates, it leads me to believe killers have at most a 35% - 40% kill rate vs high MMR SWF's.
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My opinion: give us full stats with context or don't give us anything. The numbers we got from the Q&A have only led to confusion and further questions. I'm really baffled by the devs' refusal to be transparent regarding stats over the years. I don't think I've ever seen people create as many problems for themselves through sheer refusal to effectively communicate.
They dig in their heels and refuse to budge/die on the most the most bizarre hills, I swear.
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Using Nurse was an example, not a justification. @ThiccBudhha provided several more in his response. The whole point is playing Killer IS as bad as people make it out to be and they homogenized the dataset by refusing to show us the data by bracket.
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Or if the killer facecamp, tunnel and have noed. I see hundred of them
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These sort of statistics are always useless cause they can never take into account the literally dozens of factors that affect everything.
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