Fixing the current Survivor sided game
Here's an idea... how about about of nerfing every killer, and buffing all survivors... for once do nothing with the survivor perks (except maybe boon totem range & dead hard rework). And go all wild on the killer add-ons. killer effects... and so on.
possible examples:
Killers:
Give trapper more traps, make him be able to set them up quicker, make it longer to disable
20% bonus to all movementspeed addons for hillbilly
Ghostface ability cooldown way shorter, increase the time being able to be exposed
Give nurse normal killer movements speed (or maybe a tiny tiny bit slower)
Give Myers no limit on stalk
Hag traps cannot be removed with flashlight or takes 3 times longer before removed
Huntress, idk more base hatches
Nemesis: instead of nerving zombie add-ons, increase zombie base speed with 40%
Clown: Instead of nerving hindered status effect 5% to 4%, buff it to 10%
and so oo....
Perks:
let killer be able to clease boon totems like how survivors would clease a hex totem, this is a buff when using hex pentimento
hex ruin: gen regression goes even faster.
NOED: buff of movement speed
and so on...
Why am I suggesting this... In order to get a fully balanced game... people need to realize how survivor sided the game really is.... Buff all the killers until it's Killer sided game.... and from the moment that even the killers (like how now most of the survivors agreed currently) that the game is in their favor...
From there... rebalance everything!
This is only a suggestion but this would help with followign issues:
1: Survivors being on steroids while only a few killers can really have a fair match up against... If you buff all the killers then you know wich killers were 'OP' before this crazy buff idea and undo the buffs they currently have and killers that are terribly hard to play as right now: stealthkillers: Myers, Ghostface, Pig & other weaker killers such as Hillbilly, Trapper, Legion, Doctor in certain way & Clown.
2: This would help making the game balanced wich in longer terms would reduced the amount of facecampers, tunnelers and so on... with the current meta: even a 2 kills while camping is not a guaranteed pip up. and if you don't camp, you probably end up with either 4/4 escaped or 3/4 escaped (good Swf's) or 2/4 escaped, 3/4 escaped (normal solo que) and once every 20 games you might have a 4kill with the current meta.
3: This could help buff survivor perks that are relatively unused wick in terms would change most of the perks...
In order to know what it feels like to live in luxery, you must realize what poverty really is... I hope somehow Behavior will give at least 1-2 months of a killer sided game so that afterwards we finally can nerf ridiculous things such as boon totem range, dead hard, flashlight add-ons and buff killers that really need a buf like clown, legion, hillbilly, traper, and so on.... This game has been survivorsided for a while now and sure all of you survivor mains are going to react you hate in this discussion: 'oowh but that won't be fair', 'that's no fun', to those... play killer... let yourself get abused for 3 entire seasons/months (not 1, not 2 but at least do 3 so you know verry well how many times killer get nerfed) and then complain... Or try playing DbD with all of a sudden it being Killer sided for 3 seasons straigtht and maybe then think about how current DbD is just extremly survivor sided that the killer shave to camp, tunnel, bring mori, in order to get 1 pip up.
Is this a fair suggestion to ask... off course not... but if the game were killer sided for a few months... then maybe survivors start to realize what an actual luxery they currently have!
Comments
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Dead by Daylight is not survivor-sided.
Otzdarva did a great video showing why it is not.
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Lol give nurse normal killer movement speed 🤣
Buff noed movement speed
Faster gen regression with ruin
Man you got all the jokes don't you.
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Not funny, didn't laugh
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So buff flask of bleach to 10%? That would make him impossible to loop and annoying as hell to fight
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sure because you're going to trust the 0.1% of the players that play games with barely any mistakes...
If you take this from a casual DbD killer perspective, of 5 months, 1 year, 2 years or even more years of experience but not as sweaty as Otzdarva.
Twitch streamers and content creators and great and all, but we all know their skilllevels are WAAY higher then the regular DbD player and sure, I agree on many things with Otzdarva. but I don't agree with this 'balanced' game
camping on hooks is more chance to achieve a pip-up then if you try your best?
Survivors bullying the killer is the main goal of the game...
As long as ppl are going to Deny that the game isn't survivor sided, the game won't change and eventually will die because killer mains will leave.
And again all these examples are just extreme and unfair buffs, I know this as well. But implement them for a few months... and I hope many ppl think back when the game 'wasn't killer sided' aka CURRENT DBD OP SURVIVOR SIDED
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These are unfair buffs and that's the point...
because boon totems are a unfair perk that needs nerf, Dead hard is an unfair perk that needs nerf, flashlights are unfair items that needs nerf.
If Behavior will not realize they need to Extremly nerf Survivor perks, tools and mechanics. then we can only request the other solution. wich is if the survivors can get on steroids. then give the killer also steroids
And sure those are ridiculous ideas... I know it myself but again
you must understand what pain killers go through to understand what luxery is and most survivors don't even realize that!
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Flashlights are unfair? How, they're the second worst item in the game
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If they're the second worst item in the game then why are they overused consistently?
Look, don't try to defend your comfortable save bubble of being on the OP survivor side... We killers know well wich killer as a higher chance to win against try hard survivors and wich ones won't. and we admit that
The point of this entire post: Is to suggest a MASSIVE killer buff on ALL killers so ALL survivors, SWF, or solo que. will feel the effect and start to realize that the game IS survivor sided
Or a MASSIVE survivor nerf on ALL survivor perks so ALL killers won't be facing abusive toxic survivors anymore and would be less likely to camp because of the game being more fair....
Stop defending your survivor safe haven... The killers need a buff, and you just don't want to admit it! why? 'because bullying killers as survivor is fun'. The game shouldn't be about bullying the killer, like a 4 man SWF in wich 3 ppl bully the killer not even doing gens and 1 person goes doing them all! and they all escape! the game needs balance! and this ain't it... and stop defending survivor side if your not a casual killer dbd player or don't even play both sides. because to many ppl play survivor only and will always defend posts like these! while you don't even dare to play as killer!
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Nice assumptions, I play 85/15 Killer/Survivor. If you actually knew how game balance worked, you'd know that a massive Killer buff or a massive Survivor nerf would kill the game
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yet the fact that a lot of players admit the game being survivor sided (even some from survivor side) proves that somehow... we need a killer buff and a survivor nerf!
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Yes, we do to some degree. What you're suggesting would kill the game
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Killers can win by playing like an absolute scumbag. Problem is, do we really want Killers to have to play that way to win? No, it would be better if they made the game harder for Survivors, but in exchange, added some built-in anti-tunneling or anti-camping. This way, both sides have more fun, Killers wouldn't have to tunnel or camp the hell out of people to win, and at the same time they don't get genrushed to hell for trying to play nice, which is generally what happens when Killers play nice.
I personally don't enjoy playing like a scumbag when I'm Killer but I often have to do it because it's the only way to beat good SWF parties.
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So it's unfair when the killer has a broken killer sided game...
but it's fair when the survivors do have a broken survivor sided game?
With all due respect...; but again... you must learn what poverty is in order to understand what luxery is...
there is a reason why I putted a '3 months' in this..; because that would be enough time for all survivors to realize... some survivor perks/mechanince and gameplay need nerf and some killers need a buff.
flip the tables around... let survivor mains quit the game instead of killer mains for once.. so that after those 3 month all ppl, killer and survivor can give honest feedback and not some BS feedback like 'Otzdarva says it's balanced'
yeah because no killer can counter a Otzdarva killer or survivor... high skill it Top 0,1% of all players
Did you really want me to suggest buffs that are so OP for killers for the rest of the game? off course not! but make those changes anyways... temporary... and you'll see that the game needed more ballancing for the killer's side. especially since the birth of boon totems
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there is no need for anti-camping, anti-tunneling
because you got Borrowed and Decisive Strike to counter those...
And you can argue 'ow but killers can just use lightborn to counter flash so I don't see the problem...' you think a F tier killer like Myers and Legion is going to use Lightborn if they need Blood warden, Noed, Remember me and No Way Out more?? don't think sooo
so again no need for those more anti-tunneling, anti-camping because there are even coutners for those... it's called perks.. and genrushing if he facecamps... our lovely youtube content creatures will happily tell you more about that
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When did I say the game being Survivor sided was ok? Also, you should learn what poverty is aswell. The game is currently pretty balanced compared to when it first came out, it's in the second most balanced state it's ever been. Just because you don't want to l2p doesn't mean that Killers should get massive buffs that'd kill the game
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You evidently ignored the part where I said make the game harder for Survivors, and in exchange, add anti-camping and anti-tunneling. As of now, BT and DS are enough, but if they made the game less Survivor sided, then they would likely have to add more anti-camping and anti-tunneling, because otherwise the game would become very Killer sided. My point here is to make the game less tunnel and camp oriented, as currently it's the only way to win against good Survivors. The idea is to make it more fun for both sides, by making gens slower so it's less frustrating for Killers, and making Survivors not get tunneled and camped. It would be more fun for both sides if you ask me.
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i'm not going to response to this anymore if you're to ignorant to acknowledged that survivor sided is to strong now.
we can ping-pong about this all time... but I don't want to argue in an useless ping-pong argue
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yes I ignored what you said about make the game harder for survivors cuz I agree with this part but not in exchange for anti-camp, anti-tunnel
Maybe give DS and BT as a base perks and remove the perks in the game then... that's extremly Survivor OP, then give ligthborn and Noed as a killer base as well but you'll all probably gonna disgree again... cuz you all survivor sided players
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If the game were made harder for Survivors, but then nothing was done about tunneling and camping in exchange, the game would become very Killer sided, as it's both hard for Survivors to get their objective done, and easy to get tunneled and camped.
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why does there need something to be done about tunnelign and camping...
you survivors just need to stop trying to escape with 4 ppl whenever that happens! that part of the game is already balanced enough!
SWF's is already a unfair advantage anyways
Besides as a killer main I started tunelling because of the abusive way survivors play... so again... there is always a cause of it
And ppl with a flashlight will get camped if I've noticed it's their best man on the team as well! so again just put your focus elswhere
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The last few tournaments aren't showing the game is survivor sided. The Developers Data also shows the game isn't survivor sided. In fact, what source is showing you that the games survivor sided?
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The game is not balanced around SWF, that's very true. I think what they should do about that is, rather than remove SWF or penalize them, instead make solo q Survivors be able to communicate, whether it be via text chat or voice chat, then after doing this, balance the game better around SWF, since solo q will be able to communicate as well.
You're not paying much attention to what I'm trying to say. The game needs to be harder for Survivors, most certainly, however if this were done, it would become too Killer sided, as Killers would be able to tunnel and camp just as easily as before, and that combined with the "Survivor nerf" would just be too much on Survivors. As of now in the current state of the game, DS and BT are the only anti-tunneling we need, but if Survivors were nerfed, they would no longer be enough. That's what I'm trying to say.
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I can tell from your response you stopped reading at "Otzdarva" and didn't actually WATCH the video. Please go watch the video. He did a fantastic experiment from playing with a sweaty build and "playing like a scumbag' as you say down to playing w/o even any perks. He also addresses most of the complaints you have about his methodology.
I'll just put his results here:
Here's the thing - if you, a killer, define a 'win' as a 4k - you're going to be horribly disappointed with a lot of your matches. If you get a long term average of 3k or at least 2.5k avg kills per game, your MMR is going to go up. That's a win in my book. Some players take the killer role far too seriously and want to just insta-M1 4k every game. That's not fun for either side and it's really kinda boring, if you think about it. Gotta have some challenge and apply some skill to any game. Even if you're a casual player.
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"SWF's is already an unfair advantage anyways"
Maybe - depends on how good each of those survivors are, what map you're playing on, what items and add-ons are in play on both sides. Will a well coordinated SWF probably give a not so good killer a bad day? Will a highly skilled SWF group stomp a really good killer? Not necessarily but it will be a very interesting match. Even BHVR has said that the data shows that while SWF groups tend to do 'better, on average' than a group of solo queues - it's not SO much better that they feel anything needs to be 'done about it.'
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Voice comms are the cheating and that's the thing BHVR should fix.
Not game in general, solo survivors vs killer is generally fine.
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I mean survivors in that vid is generally worst of all.
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The devs have stated multiple times that playing with friends isn't cheating
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Hmmm... Communicating with friends isn't cheating you say? Two killer friends, one playing as survivor and a team player, but.... Communicates the location of other survivors to the killer. Any fellow killer mains out there wanna be friends? Holla!
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If that's the case why are there some survivor perks that either reward mistakes or in the case of DH be practically a safety net
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The devs are also biased towards one side given the most recent updates too so why not say that?
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The devs aren't biased towards 1 side or the other, they're just pretty garbage at balancing
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Right that's why when a killer gets nerfed they can potentially be gutted while survivor perks get a slap on the wrist.
I don't deny what your saying but given the recent updates and answers in their QnA it becoming pretty telling.
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DbD is, by its current design philosophy, Survivor sided.
if you have two teams of players with each member having the same skilllevel as the others go up against each other, Survivors win (given they dont throw the game at some point - for example like they did when Otz did the no Perks, no Add Ons + 30 sec AFK at the beginning Hag game).
The only thing Otzes video proves is, that either he is a lot better than most of his opponents, allowing him to still beat them, or that most Survivors dont want to play in an optimal way (so playing DbD casually for fun), due to it being quite boring, giving the Killer once again the ability to beat them (but only if the Killer plays to win).
but if you wanna talk balance, you gotta look at a balanced setup - so both sides have players of the same skill level and both sides play the game to win.
but why am i saying that?
here's the short version:
DbD can be boiled down into two seperate mini games - the "macro game" and the "micro game" as i call them.
Macro game refers to the overall trial, micro game to chases.
balance is achieved by both sides being absolute powerhouses in one of those cathegories and racing the other side to complete theirs first.
however, the Devs decided that it would be boring for Survivors if they only got to do gens (macro game), so they decided to make chases (micro game) "fair and balanced for both sides".
the result of that balance philosophy is, that Killers can not compete with Survivors doing gens (as they, by design, shouldnt be able to), but also cant race gens, because they are not oppressive in chases and they therefore take too long (as they should be).
Survivors on the other hand still get to be oppressive on gens, meaning the Killer simply put doesnt have the time to actually be a threat to them.
thats why 4 gen slowdowns and tunneling someone out asap are the current meta, because Killers need to somehow buy themselves enough time to end chases and hook players before the game is over.
of course there are a bunch of different killers and this applies to some more than others, but given the current balance history, the Devs are a lot more keen at bringing killers that actually achieve a decent level of balance down to "be more in line with the others / allow for fair counterplay (referring to chases)", rather than buffing other Killers up to be on their level.
i totally get and understand the reason why they decided to do that, but it leaves this game in a pretty unbalanced state.
which makes other decisions they made, such as introducing an MMR system, look significantly worse - because why would we want a system that puts players of a similar skill level together on both sides, when that just translates out to the Killer losing the match?
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No way they gonna call them cheating because they are like 40% of entire playerbase, and also is rather childish.
Better not tell em they are cheating, because if dev do so they gonna get mad and lose many money.
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When people say "comms with friends" they mean a SWF group over discord.. not a survivor talking to the killer..
That would require such a waste of time to get lobbies together, leaving and searching for a new lobby to get matched up together that your argument doesn't have any justification. I play a lot at the same time as other people I know and never got matched with/vs them.
Only people I recall matching against twice are two Twitch streamers I used to follow, and the two matches vs each of them were months apart in both cases. They were both playing regularly at the same time I usually play, and I never saw them other than that.. so if people want to cheat the system by forcing the game to put them in the same match, its their time wasted, I know I wouldn't want to bother with that just to ######### around with other survivors.
Maybe other games have "better" (or different) matchmaking that allow you to pick the lobby or who you play against, and yes, you could do that.. but unless there's a way to consistently match vs the people you want, then yeah..
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I watch my wife when she plays killer and I give her pointers. The first time she got a kill (and she got two of them) was when I told her to camp at the end with NOED. She was bullied hard all game but then face camped at the end and secured two kills. Both of which were her first kills.
She felt bad about it because she doesn't like being camped when she is survivor. But that's literally the only way. She had only played three games and the "mAtChMaKiNg" was giving her a bunch of tier 1 iridescent SWF groups.
Cool game.
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Hacking the game must also not be cheating. You can get the same advantages a SWF group would give you.
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You mentioned "my argument" my post is no argument, and as the previous poster stated, devs don't consider comms as cheating. You cannot make a rule to limit comms to survivor to survivor only without being unfair bias and unbalanced against the killer. In other words, you proudly say survivor can use walkie talkies to communicate actions or locations!? While being knocked down hooked or spying on the killer!? It would be gaslighting to say this is fair. In that case, the counter to that unfair madness is to have a survivor tune to a killer's channel on the walkie talkie. How do like that?
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Sometimes I wonder if people who say its a survivor sided game have played survivor for more than a few hours consecutively. DBD is nowhere near a survivor sided game. I'd say half the people that play survivor don't even know how to look behind them when running from the killer. As I've said before and will always say until it happens, this game needs to fundamentally change before any real balance can be had.
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Survivors being extremely bad doesn't really change what game is though.
Comparison should be between same skill level, so it's more like killer sided at low level and more survivor sided at high level.
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It really depends on the map as to how survivor sided it is, as generators have fixed times to complete that doesn't scale with map size. This means that any killers put into a large map need to have either a strong ranged option or a high mobility option, if they don't they lose a lot of time for free on survivors, as each second the killer has to spend going to a gen is four seconds that the survivors get. Doubly so if it's a large map with little cover, you can see the killer from a mile away and move to hide or move to a safe tile with plenty of warning in advance. This might cause issues with high mobility killers like Blight and Nurse, but they already dominate the meta as is, but that might be a necessary sacrifice to make other killers viable for large maps.
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Yea but you also have to realize the huge gap between "high level" and "low level" players. I wouldn't be surprised if its 1% to 99%. Like I've said, most survivor players can't loop and many don't even know how to look behind them when running. For anyone to suggest this is a survivor sided game is just blatantly wrong.
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Ehh, but this is definitely a survivor sided game because weakest killer don't even know how to swing weapon or how to hook anyone.
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I mean killer's harder to learn, and in high end play the survivors also have an advantage. The only time the killer has an advantage is if the player is so new they can't find or do gens.
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