Would a dev live stream counters to CoH/Boil Over?
As it is now, we haven't really convinced the devs that Circle of Healing is particularly powerful. We did get a minor nerf, but I am not sure the devs have played against the types of teams that killer main complain about.
Would the devs be willing to live stream custom matches against a team of some of us?
I don't mean top MMR squads, just SWFs of good-ish players that know how to capitalise on certain combinations of perks/addons/offerings.
I know that Boil Over is also being monitored, and it is possible that the devs are aware that it may be over-tuned. But if they come to the conclusion that "actually Boil Over is fine", maybe stream some matches with us using that too?
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Probably they don’t play also against the same undying ruin pop tinkerer tricksters I face
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It's all about playstyle
Cause there are few perks that work... but that doesn't mean much if you don't use them or get anything done while using them
Players have their set ways of playing this game... which doesn't bod well for the future
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The devs aren't even elite players. They're like yellows at best.
No disrespect to the devs
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Deerstalker and Knockout.
Thank me later
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CoH - It's been stated that this perk is still being monitored. They're aware this is THE boon, and they don't want to nerf it into obscurity but they were aware it's original iteration was too much. Personally, I think the nerf was just a slap on the wrist and this perk is still busted but it's whatever.
Boil Over - They know. Not even "It's being monitored," they know. Content creators said it's problematic, the forums are filled with it, Twitter is filled; it's impossible to *not* know.
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If they do, that'll be instanerf for it.
Did ya remember when they nerfed flashlight? yes, BHVRs been like that.
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I must not have been around yet before that, wonder how flashlights were than?
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Search YouTube DBD dev instablind and you will be in for a treat. I love that video. It's hilarious and led to flashlights being nerfed in a week or so.
Edit: nvm. Here you go.
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I remember that video.
it is pretty good
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So several players can already play around, but the devs have to show that themselfs? Sigh.
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Most game developers aren't, seeing as they're busy making the game, not playing it.
I imagine the last thing a game developer wants to do when they get home is play the game that they already spend eight hours a day working on.
They're not streamers who make a living off having 12+ hours a day free at home to play games professionally.
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Probably it's the reason why many game dev tend to be suck at balancing.
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But its a Trickster so.. i don't see your problem. Just loop the shack for 3 gens so they get no value out of ruin. You could also just break or boon the totem to reduce him to 2 perks if you want.
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Reminds me how i worked in a cooky factory when i was younger.
I still hate cookies to this day.
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The issue is they'd just stream a game using something like Iron Grasp and Thrill of the Hunt.
Which is all well and good except that you lose 1/2 your perks for things which essentially do nothing except slow down their super OP efficient perk, and not quite reset carrying to default.
With these perks in the meta the only way to "counter" them is to essentially only have 2 perk slots for anything that gives you any benefit above the baseline when for years killers have already been hard pressed for perk space.
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What convinces them to nerf things is internal stats, they don’t go by just anecdotal posts. They’re probably monitoring both how popular a perk is, escape rates with and without the perk, and what other perks opposing sides use and escape rates with various combinations. So for Boil Over they’d look at how often survivors escape when someone has Boil Over, how often when nobody has it, how often when survivors have Boil Over and the killer has Iron Grasp, and how often when the killer doesn't have Iron Grasp. If those number are out of whack then they’ll nerf it.
That’s why they nerf add-ons which get confused posts saying “nobody asked for this to be nerfed”. Well also nobody actually tracks game stats with and without various add-ons and load out combos aside from the devs themselves so it’s possible for particular add-ons to be somewhat too good but not draw a lot of attention by not getting into the meta or being used by streamers.
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Eh. It’s not like they need to nerf anything that they find personally unfair/too strong to counter. Otherwise I guess you could let them verse a strong Clown or Legion player and convince them those killers are op and need a nerf?
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Discord: lul
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CoH makes 3 gen setups unwinnable if the killer doesn't have an instadown. I'd love to see the counterplay to that.
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The difference is that when people are complaining so much about something, there could be something in what they say. There isn't a particularly large nerf Clown or Legion following. At least to my knowledge.
To be honest, that actually worked. Devs that care about the game shouldn't be too fussed about something like this happening to them, it might be a bit embarrassing at the time but most of us have been on the receiving end of games like this. If it makes the game better, its worth it.
If the stats are not really showing what people are complaining about, then actually seeing it might make the difference. It wouldn't even need to specifically be someone on the coding team, but it needs to be someone who could represent the devs AND who can play at at least a reasonably high level.
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they also need to play on console and pick Trickster, Nurse, etc.
many killers are designed for PC and not for console. after playing on console they might add some kind of aim assist.
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They have also confirmed they are monitoring the performance of both perks and Mandy has especially stated about Boil Over that the issues have been communicated to the team and she agrees that is (situational) problematic iirc her wording right.
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I didn’t think you were new to DbD? Killers have plenty of options: snuffing totems, slugging if unable to hook, anti-wiggle and healing perks. And that’s just scratching the surface.
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I actually tried snuffing the totem. You'll never believe what happened! Mikaela ony went straight back to the totem and re-booned it!
I then tried slugging! You'll never beleive what happened! They used a combination of perks and/or comms to get the survivors back up again.
I also tried anti-wiggle and anti-healing perks and you know what? I didn't have any perks for my own enjoyment.
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28 seconds not doing gens at least! And I’m sure plenty of survivor players out there would love to run non-meta perks of their choice too. But what ever will they do against hardcore camping and tunneling? Since perks are apparently the solution to core game problems on both sides!
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I read your comment and im like so for a dev to play their game the game need to be really good and i imediatly think about mortdog who stream teamfight tactic every weekend and of the dev of valorant who beat 5 ex pro player of CSGO.
That made me realise that DBD probably suck ass if the dev dont play.
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If I am honest I feel devs send out over or underrated perks on purpose for the community to test, for voices to go through the grapevine, I truely do, BHVR and he company know what they are doing, and if it gains likes dislikes it still boosts the game and community, is very mch promoting the game no matter what. I feel the devs just change stuff so high or so low to gagae reactions and use this for social and persoanl gain and benefit, negative or positive is always good I dont believe suff is tested before pushing it out there. Or maybe we are all just guinepigs.
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With Boil Over you can deal with it very similarly to old DS. Where you force the Survivor to stun you (or in this case wiggle out) when youre on the edge of a drop. So when they do wiggle out theyll drop, and then suffer the stagger from falling. By the time youre done recovering from your stun they wont be too far.
Its still a HUGE time waster but its definitely better than having a Survivor constantly run back to a spot where they cant be hooked
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A very huge time waster, know what would be better? Nerf BO, a perk that no one ever mentioned or complained about :)
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I dont even know what youre trying to get at here, but go off king
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But go off king? because I know what that means? o.O
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He’s asking for the newly buffed Boil Over to be nerfed already. 😢
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I think Hex: Pentimento should allow killer to break boons and rebuild them to Pentimento. Survivors could still bless it but it would take longer (than a dull totem) and would slow down gens in the process. Of course if you break it a second time it stays gone.
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This is true and mostly effective. But stats show end results and it's hard to reference stats to anything more than an individual player. Trying to apply those end results to matches with many random other teammates and all results of TEAM win vs loss is nearly impossible.
Does anybody remember the ONSLAUGHT of backlash a developer got for saying the stats showed Object Of Obsession as a non issue perk? That's because 92% of the time OoO user died, I.E. weak perk statistically. After the feedback from that embarrassing moment it was actually watched in mid to high skill matches and showed that almost the same percentage of 3 man escapes happened in those matches. And usually even though the OoO user died, the killer got only 3-4 hooks (whole match!) And 1 kill. That's because OoO was highly abusable in skilled teams as a call out for killer location and activity.
So weak individually because the killer would have to fixate on killing that player to even get a fair match.
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Actually Object of Obsession is an example of them using stats to verify that the perk had a disproportionate impact on groups with swfs. Far from being impossible, they were able to pivot out results with or without swfs using or not using that perk and compare results and found a big disparity, The same can be done for any perk, pivoting out how well it does with and without swfs in general and even on specific maps.
If anything Object of Obsession’s nerf is a success story for stats, not a failure.
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But those stats were only considered after the backlash. Stats are used far more as a broad tool which only paints a partial view of the experience.
I'm not saying to ignore statistics I'm advocating that if there is a rampant opinion of something in game it shouldn't be ignored on surface statistics.
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I think there’s a general misconception that the devs ignore things when they don’t immediately make a change suggested on the forums. I don’t think they do, rather changes usually take a long time for them to actually get to the table and implement. There’s no reason to believe they weren’t aware Object of Obsession was problematic in swfs, they simply took a long time to change it, probably because of a combination of them feeling it was lower priority than other changes and also something that would require more than a simple numerical change to address.
Just because they don’t act quickly doesn’t mean they’re ignoring anything.
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It was literally stated in a developer update that there was NO issue with OoO and from their data it was a poor performing perk overall and there were no plans to nerf it... After the overwhelming response of "do you even play your game" came the scrutiny of OoO. I'm not saying it's not better now than it was then, I'm also not suggesting adjusting perks solely on forum feedback. But if the overwhelming feedback doesn't match the data their looking at then they need to look at different parameters to see the data.
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Sometimes if I wonder if they draw their conclusions and then cherry-pick data that supports that conclusion. Remember when they released data that claimed the DS nerf had little to no effect on the outcome of games? I would love to have seen how they chose that data.
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Calling the lead dev a noob killer is next level lmao.
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I looked it up and that’s not what they said. One of the developers said Object of Obsession seemed to have poor performance overall so it might be a perception issue, and Cote said the perk still was being looked at though.
And if you think they didn’t rely mainly on stats when deciding what the revamp would be or if they needed to revamp it you’re wrong. I guarantee they looked at a bunch of data before revamping that perk, they don’t just make changes based on forum posts. (If they did they would have nerfed NOED a long time ago.)
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i love that vid so much
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Again lol, I'm not saying statistics are not used or important to use.
Re-read^^^
I'm saying relying on statistics IN SPITE of rampant opinion of player majority means they're not looking at the right statistics. My god the way you keep repeating yourself as if I'm insulting the devs makes me wonder if you're just trying not to lose cosmetics. They gave GOTTEN BETTER at balancing statistics and opinion instead of relying on JUST statistics. The story of OoO showed a PAST tendency to merely ignore mass opinion due to surface endgame stats.
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Another good example of my opinion is when they shadow nerfed Discordance... That was not even complained about by survivors at all because it only forces more efficiency by not doubling up on gens... Perfect example of a change based ONLY on statistics that took everybody by surprise and wasn't even asked for.
It would be horrible to nerf and buff things based ONLY on forum complaints every other perk would be useless or overpowered... But nerfing or buffing without any general concerns voiced by the players about it in the first place also shows that the data didn't represent the reality of the effectiveness of the perk overall.
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During the original Q&A Almo/Ethan explicitly said that according to the statistics OoO wasn't much of a problem because it wasn't run that often and it didn't positively impact escape rates, Mcote then added, correctly, that it might be more the issue of how it felt playing against it.
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Again, I’m saying I think you’re assuming the tail is wagging the dog on OoO. They didn’t say what you thought they said, and there’s no particular indication they were only looking at surface endgame stats in the first place.
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This^^^ Thank you! Of course the lead designer said they're keeping an eye on it... Can't act entirely oblivious in a live QA.
So yes it was explicitly said by a head developer which caused so much backlash on the forums that it was LITERALLY the only topic for weeks.
I was actually playing then. Don't tell me I don't know what and how it went 😂
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And I actually looked it up and they didn’t say what you think you remember them saying.
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It would be great if the devs could feel the pain of those killers who experience awful matches because of these perks, but unfortunately that’s not how they seem to make decisions on changes. From all the info they’ve shared publicly, they seems to base decisions heavily (solely?) on their kill/escape data. The problem is that only looking at kill and escape data completely ignores the problem of how sweaty and unfun matches have become as killers have had to increasingly rely on camping, slugging and tunneling to get wins.
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I wasn't trying to word for word it. Despite the paraphrasing, the point is right.
OoO was brought up in a question, almo referenced it not performing well and acted as if he was oblivious to the problem. That clip trended, then it was nerfed. It was reactionary not proactively based on stats.
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