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What if Characters Only Had Their Own 3 Perks to Use?
Now I do love DBD as is, but I also know balance for this game can be super tricky. Like if you buff Legions Iron Maiden suddenly Huntress could have an OP status because her reload times could be 0 with add ons--just an example.
Ive noticed it a few times where a Killer A's perk would get buffed, and Killer B would become insanely strong because they just so happen to have that off-character perk available to them.
Im someone who also likes it when theres specific play styles per character. Like a runner, a healer, vision, savior, etc. I always thought it was kinda funny how everyone has 4 slots for perks, but only 3 ones that are made for that character--makes me wonder why that is?
I personally quite like the idea of the characters/killers having their 3 perks, and being able to have 1 empty perk slot for teachables. Like instead of a Spirit having all Hag perks, she'd have her normal perks, and then her 4th could be ANY perk, like Devour Hope/Lullaby/etc(just examples I'm not listing actual builds).
I dont think DBD needs to be changed in any way, and I'm not saying any particular character/killer is OP, but I always thought the survivor side of things were a bit arbitrary like to be a "Meg main" because you can legit put ANY perks on ANY survivor. At least with killers they have specific powers so if you main X killer, we at least know SOMEWHAT about your playstyle.
Just a thought--but what do yall think? If all characters had their 3 perks stuck on them, and only 1 teachable?
Comments
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If this were ever a thing, honestly I'd pick Jeff. I love his Breakdown perk a LOT, as well as his Aftercare to keep an eye on my friends and Distortion to help me hide. BUT--he is loud as heck, so I'd definitely have to keep Jake's Iron Will.
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Ya Jeff isnt elodie bad but hes his perks rock i think a lot of players would run dwight if they were locked
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David and Laurie by Daylight, and the killer is always Hag.
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Well, Laurie or David I don't think would be the most seen cause.
No Mither David.
and people are scared of object of obsession for some reason
i think you would see more Dwights, Megs and Mikelas tho
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If this happened i'd probably stop playing. I like variety in my builds and what this does is bassically reduce your options. By a lot.
You go from 61,324,560 possible builds on a killer to 87
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That would be horrible. Not only you would know everyones perks, but also you would see only 2 or 3 characters all year long.
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we already see that now. i dont go a SINGLE game without DS, deadhard, BT--its the same exact thing but people just have different survivors--which are basically just skins at this point--and then those skins have their own skins.
Again I don think this change is even needed, just an idea I was thinking about. Like if you HAD to pick a survivor, with thier perks, who 'd you pick?
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I dont think you need 60k options because realistically, people are only gonna pick and play the currently most powerful powers. Like out of the hudreds of perks currently available, no one is running Appraisal. Theres so many unused perks in the game already because everyone wants Ruin, or Devour, or NOED
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For sure a lot of Megs and Mikaelas, at least one per team if it was a SWF. Plus the characters "difficulty" tiers would actually make sense. Bill is listed as "HARD", but when he's running DS, Lithe, Iron Will, Boil Over---how is that make him any harder to play? Unles you account for his insanely loud coughing--which is mitigated via Iron Will. Same goes for maybe Jeff, who just happens to be really tall
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HAHA xD possibly? I dont actually ever see hags in my game, so I'm not sure but her perks are insanely useful like what killer wants to live without Ruin right now. but i think a lot of people would shy away of david if they knew they HAD to have No Mither on him as well--they'd be a lot less confident with their Dead Hards if they were already injured
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I reckon ditch all perks and add ons, just player skill. Maybe then there will be balance. At most 1 perk per loadout total. Multiplayer so ive heard is all about skill, but even with skill a killer has not much chance against a maximum of 16 perks and 8 add ons.
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eliminating all perks would also eliminate the point of different survivors though--so it might as well be like 4 quadruplets running around lol i mean i see it for a meme occasionally, like a whole team of Bills, but thats few and far between haha
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Because the mayority is using only thr meta doesn't mean everybody does.
Also this isn't stopping that. People are still going to only run the 1 or 2 best perks. Not to mention how you completely nerf characters into the ground.
How are you going to buff wraith if you force him to use predator, bloodhound and shadowborn so he doesn't fall into obscurity? Same with Twins.
This is just a whole lot of work to make the game worse imo
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well if killers weren’t camping and tunneling, survivors wouldn’t use ds or bt. If survivors weren’t gen rushing, killers wouldn’t use corrupt or ruin. Unfortunately that’s just the way it is (shout out to Bruce Hornsby).
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4 players with 4 different play styles and skills, i thought that was why people played multiplayer games? I also did mention maybe just 1 perk. I pointed out the math in the post. Its pretty obvious
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If I couldn't run my BBQ + Distressing + Beast of Prey + Lightborn build, I would never play killer again. Not even joking.
As a survivor, I would leave any lobby that's not three Bills, because the chance of anyone using their one teachable slot for BT is too small. Three Bills or I dodge.
(Also, I love Appraisal. Chest-looting builds are fun. Limiting perks like this would kill all meme builds.)
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I think each character should at least have to run one of the perks they have.
Would increase variety at least.
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Tunnel everyone but Laurie, causing everyone to rush gens asap, even worse than current.
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Adepts would be less rare, that is fo sho.
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youre taking this WAYYYY too seriously lol it was just a fun discussion. i see no point in anyone having a "main" survivor if any survivor can have ANY perk, same for having a "main" killer because you can literally have any killer with any perks--all youre really changing is what power you want and at this point thats just a 5th perk imo.
and if your killer is SO TRASH that they're unplayable without perks that arent theirs--then they're just poorly designed. thats like having to buy a new car, then replace every single part on that said car--why not just buy a better car at that point? if wraith is soooo unplayable with his OWN perks--then he needs to be fixed so he can stand on his own. thats the whole point of making a balanced character.
i never said this idea was meant to balance, buff, or nerf anything--just thought it was a fun idea that if there was an adept mode, what kind of play styles would we see more of--more megs? more fengs?. lots of games have specific characters that do specific things, and thats it--DBD is one of the few games i can think of where character selection pretty much means NOTHING because 100% guarantee there are going to be at least THREE DS, two DH, and some BT. Like without FAIL. so pretty much everyone runs the same perks anyway all the time, and thats what feels repetative to me. theres so much opportunity for variety, but you rarely see it.
Out of all these perk combinations, people really only run about 10-15 diff perks. its incredibly dull imo jsut delete all survivors at that point and have blank canvases running around
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yeah, even that i think would add a little more interest. the fact that anyone can have any perk kinda feels too easy, like why bother picking any specific character to begin with. like if I wanted to play bill i HAD to bring one of his perks, i'd be fine with that, same for mikaela or jeff.
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i have yet to go a single game without a player running DS, DH, or BT. They are ALWAYS present in game. im sure you'll be fine
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im glad you like the challenge! ive recently starting playing only as adept myself and ive found the game a lot more fun because i cant play with my usual style. im so used to sneaky builds but now its pushing me out of my comfort zone and its a lot of fun. i always mess up megs sprint burst lol, but im having a lot of enjoyment with nea's urban evasion it explains why i always lose track of Neas when im killer haha
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No thank you
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killers already go agaisnt 16 perks and add ons, and plenty do fine and manage 4ks. i think the play style for survivors though has gotten extremely dull because I know exactly what other perks im gonna see in game. honestly the games i find the most fun are the ones with builds i DONT see offten. its really rewarding imo to see someone pop off a deliverance, and manage a last minute hook rescue. or someone who combo'd flip flop and power struggle and BAM got the killer on their own, no need for flashlight save. i dont think eliminating all perks would make the game better. and by doing so there'd be no real play style anymore, because the perks aid in different play styles. you cant exactly be an evader if you arent running Iron will or quick and quiet, something to help you hide imo
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i get it, its not for everyone. some people cant live without Ruin or BBQ, i dont blame em
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I both love and hate this idea. I hate it because like people said, you'd only see the same handful of characters played. But I also like the idea of not running into the same build every game. Especially since survivors play exactly the same, you might as well be playing against the same survivor 4 times every match. Because right now it's all DH, DS, BT, and either iron will or COH. It's not fun.
But I like the idea of people being forced to run something other than just the strongest stuff every game. It's a back and forth of, "well they're gonna run the absolute strongest stuff every game, so I have to if I want to stand a chance."
That's great if you're playing a competitive team vs team game. But not so much for this game.
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Well, let's say you main Trapper, Hillbilly, Wraith, Micheal, Freddy, Huntress, Pig, Trickster, Spirit, Pyramid Head, Oni, Bubba, Blight or Legion.
Oh, did you say you wanted a slowdown perk?
Well that's too damn bad!
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Killers doesn't work, survivors can work.
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Yea I'd still play Fang Min... even though Technician is what it is
And go about playing different Killers but Pig would still be my go to... Hangman's Trick needs to be changed back to what it was before (plus the aura reading)
But that lessens the freedom of choice (in a matter of speaking) maybe pick and choose 2 of the character you want to play as then one other teachable and one that's not teachable... it would slow down the "always these 4 perks" type of complaints but still have some choice on what you run
Also why not just give the Survivors passive abilities... just saying
Edit: Also The the good thing about perks being what they are
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Not everyone. I use Mad Grit and Pain Resonance on Pig. Is it a good idea to stifle any and all creativity for builds?
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i have yet to go a single game without a player running DS, DH, or BT. They are ALWAYS present in game. im sure you'll be fine
I don't care about people running DS or DH, I only care about BT, and I see BT the least of the meta perks. So I do not believe any non-Bill player would use their teachable slot for BT. It would be DS or DH or a boon totem or Unbreakable or even SC (I see SC more than BT). Three Bills or I dodge.
Part of the problem with forcing a character to run their three perks is that then the opposition already knows 3/4 of what's in play, leaving only one perk in question. The moment you see a character use a perk that's not one of their three, then boom, you know their entire loadout. That makes it a lot easier to play around things, which mostly means a lot of people will get a lot less use out of any perk the opposition can counter. Adam will always be hooked first, pallets will never be slammed on Spirit's head. Or if you cleanse Spirit's Ruin, you know any other totems are Haunted Ground. Any killer that runs any perk other than NOED, you know they don't have NOED. Any non-Laurie survivor runs some noticeable perk they didn't come with, you know they don't have DS. In a lot of circumstances players will quickly figure out all the perks they don't have to worry about.
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yeah too bad :) maybe learn to play to make up for the lack of a slow down perk? git good?
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id actually love if survivors had their own abilities--but i think thats kind of what the perks are/were meant to be. like Jeff breaking hooks(Breakdown) makes sense hes the biggest survivor in game lmao
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and as a legion main, the entire kit is around slowing down the survivors with chases and mends. dont need a slow down perk to keep survivors off gens unless you havent learned to utilize legions abilities to their fullest.
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Ah yes, survivors doing gens on the other side of the map before I physically have enough time to walk over there is clearly only due to my lack of skill as a player.
The fact is that you're pretty much powerless if you don't have good slowdown at your disposal. Good survivors can do gens on the other side of the map from you, heal quickly, and last long in chases. Without perks like Pop and Ruin it's incredibly hard to keep up.
Using Legion without slowdown is like eating cereal without milk. You can do it, but you could also be doing it so much better.
Most survivors know that healing against Legion is generally a bad idea, so while you get the short term slowdown of forcing the survivor to mend, later in the game you will struggle because survivors no longer worry about healing and get completely occupied by gens. And with CoH survivors CAN heal consistently without losing, which can be a real headache. Survivors also can delay the deep wound timer by running and can work on gens before they decide to mend.
So by itself, Legion doesn't have tons of effective slowdown. However...
-Thanataphobia punishes survivors for staying injured with its slowdown penalties
-Ruin makes gens lose progress as survivors heal
-Jolt works well on Legion as an m1 killer and can be combined with other perks to be extremely potent
Do you see what I mean? A super cracked killer main COULD win without slowdown perks, but slowdown perks enable you to be just as effective while still playing in a way you enjoy and not having to be godlike (but still not completely replacing skill)
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Or just actually think long and hard about how the new perk they have in mind will interact with other perks, powers, items, particular maps or whatever else. Hell, I'm sure they could just make a post that's all "Hey, here's a perk idea we have. Please roast it :)" and among all the usual hysteria of any perk that isn't useless someone will catch genuinely disproportionally strong synergies and call them out before the perk ever touches the game.
Then it'd just be up to them if they think the stuff people call out is undesirable enough to change the design of the perk or add some sort of anti-synergy targetting whatever issue that was pointed out.
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It’s ironic that Dead Hard came with No Mither.
If those who rely on DH so much, had to use No Mither, they’d drop DH altogether.
It’s as if the perk designers don’t think about the balancing of perks when used as teachables. They only see them in their sets.
In context, DH was created to give leeway for the 1 health state of No Mither. But now it’s the most abused perk, much worse the DS.
Why hasn’t it been nerfed yet? I play survivor 50% and never use DH, and I think it feeds mistake and makes you a lazier/selfish survivor.
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It's actually a good idea to finally balance DH: to unite it with No Mither. And DS will be balanced by uniting with OoO.
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'Fraid that's not how game balance works.
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Couple of thoughts
- Killers are already quite different from each other regardless of the perks they run because of their base abilities being unique. No reason to tinker with that.
- I agree that survivors all being essentially the same aside from perks makes them less interesting individually. It’s one of the reasons I like playing killer better. So I do think it would be cool if they had something fundamentally different about each of them at a base level other than just the perks they run. However at this point survivors all getting a unique base ability would be way too hard to implement so that’s kind of a pipe dream.
- The compromise would be requiring survivors to use one or two or three of their own starting perks. That might make them feel a little unique to a limited extent, but it also means you’d probably just see a ton of lobbies all with the same survivor at higher level of play (whichever one has Dead Hard for instance). At mid level and lower level play though players already don’t have all the perks unlocked on all the survivors so you actually are kind of likely to see a survivor using at least one or two of their starting perks simply because that’s what they’ve got available so I don’t know that this would be a huge change for players who are still working on perks on Bloodwebs for their favorite characters.
- One crazier idea would be to force characters to Prestige periodically, like every time they hit 50 or every time there’s a grade reset they automatically Prestige. That would force all players not to use the same perks over and over, they’d have to use what the bloodweb is offering. If they ever did something like this they’d probably need to get rid of perk levels so that you always have level 3 of your starting perks, and get rid of perk slots being locked until level 15 and just have all four slots available from level 1. If this happened you’d get a lot of people using more of their starting perks simply because that’s what they are guaranteed to have after resets. (And personally this is already how I play - I reset my killers every time they hit 50 just to force myself to use perks I wouldn’t normally have considered. I like it well enough but that’s just me so I’m not necessarily in favor of forcing other players to play this way, even though I have fun with it. 🤷♂️)
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Adept only gamemode when pls
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Why not eliminate all strategy from the game and just make it a coin toss after loading?
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