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The truth about DS
I personally only tunnel if I absolutely cant find ANYONE, not even the person who just unhooked. However the most common move then is just slug that unhooked survivors.
We all know this classic situation where you meet that recently unhooked survivors because he was still staying at the area or ran into you or you just simply found them by accident, you slug them for DS. Now you come back after some time and then you get the classic 99 DS in your face.
What do you do after that then? Well since he has no DS anymore you will obviously specificly tunnel him out to get a free kill right off the bat.
What I am saying is (atleast in my personal experience) Ds gives me a reason to tunnel survivors not really the other way around. Perks like borrow or bodyblocking are more then enough to counter tunneling and already make me want to leave the survivors and go instead for others which are more off position, ppl who are getting tunneled are ofc on alert and stick near loops or strong tiles to be rdy for the upcoming chase if you go for them. These are more then enough reasons for me personaly to not tunnel that survivor and just go for other ppl who are anyway doing gens in the meantime.
I dont get why Killers cry about DS still to this day, imo DS isnt really a staple as some ppl claim it to be, however in tournaments its a different topic obviously, talking here about pubs specificly.
Comments
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Pretty sure very few killers still complain about DS, if any.
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I still see a good amount of ppl who are mentioning it or complaining about DS. Often you see arguments like "Typical survivor using DS, DH, BT". You can argue that DH and BT can be pretty strong at certaign situations but I dont have any problem with Ds, especially after the nerf that its getting disabled after you touch a gen (still one of the best changes BHVR has ever done imo)
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And I was always told CoH caused Killer to tunnel survivors. I guess after DS and CoH are nerfed, then Borrowed Time will cause Killers to tunnel survivors.
Killer mains or so entitled.
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DS is okey after last changes. I don't think most of community is complaining about it anymore.
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;(
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True
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I've never complained about DS, I do happily eat the DS because that is still faster than 2 healthy chase + 2 injured chase.
You have to chase four times anyway, why not eat the DS and tunnel that person out?
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I complain. Oops, I picked the guy up 59 seconds after he got unhooked instead of 60, after I just hooked someone else. My bad, right?
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CoH certainly cause killers to tunnel survivors, DS causes killers to tunnel survivors once it depleted, I don't think borrowed time has anything to do with tunneling though.
You have to use your brain and think about why it is the case, instead of mindlessly mumbling us vs them us vs them.
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So they did not do anything 60 seconds for keep DS? This is good value.
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Uhh, yes?
It is your fault for messing up the timing. Not the perk's.
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But you still get stunned instead of getting a hook after a chase and a down. You genuinely outplayed them, but they get a free second chance because of a technicality.
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Still good value. Why?
They did not do anything for 60 seconds and plus now DS gone forever. You can out this survivor from game. This is why i am not respecting DS anymore. I am always eating DS early, so i can out them later easyly.
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I think it gets mentioned in this kind of situations, because it still is a meta perk that usually gets picked together with the others, especially DH.
DS really isn't that bad, eating a random DS 58s after downing someone is actually one of the best situations for the killer, trading 5s of inactivity for nearly minute of a survivors time. The only complaint about DS that you regularly get is during the EGC, where it basically is a free get-away card. Most of the time you can't prevent either the unhooking, nor pick up the survivor with DS, its a lose/lose situation and that sucks, but its a real corner case. I mean, just because DS is sorta advised as the anti-tunnel perk, its not wrong per se that it got this extra strength in the end game.
A lot of perks have unforseen combos or effects besides their obvious usage, and if we would cry for patching each one of those out the game would be much more boring. BUT OP is right: if I eat an early DS because someone did a super cheeky, unsave unhooking in my face, I might go the whole mile and get that survivor out of the game, its sorta free pressure.
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I don’t have a problem with DS in its current form.
The last time I had a problem with DS was back in october when you could bless a totem without losing it.
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Imagine still complaining about DS
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i mean, it means they where doing almost nothing for 59 seconds
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Decisive Strike is meta aka "most effective tactic available" against tunneling-off-hook-till-dead. In fact, it is the only tactic survivors have available against tactic that every Killer has available to them.
If you take it away, survivors are completely helpless against tunneling-off-hook-till-dead.
Think about that, survivors literally have to pay for Laurie Strode to have a counter against a tactic every single killer can do right out of the gate.
Don't you think it's a bit selfish to ask for DS to be nerfed, when the only way to get hit by it is if you are tunneling. And it's selfish to ask for it to be nerfed because it's the only counter to tunneling-off-hook-till-dead and it's not even that effective for that. I would feel ashamed.
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The issue is that DS is insanely strong especially when multiple people have it and when combined with UB or DELI you basically get godmode off hook and most of the time people will save it so they get a free escape last second at the exit gate even though for all purposes they would have lost. It also let's you loop the killer for 50s and if the killer picks up you can loop for even longer making the time spent in chase for the first part wasted. You could say the option is to "not tunnel" but in reality you can't individually hook survivors an expect to get a 3k+
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Main issue I see with DS is that if you save it for the end-game you basically get out for free. The other issue is that it adds an extra health state to survivors when triggered, requiring you to effectively get another hook any time it triggers. Also just simply how it can lead to you sitting there watching a guy on the ground for a minute when everyone else is dead/escaped which is just a massive time waste. Main thing is that it's mostly just... annoying, it's rarely used for it's intended purpose of escaping the killer or using it as an anti-tunneling perk but more it gets used as a way to BM the killer. Hopping into the locker, body blocking for a teammate, etc. which basically forces you to "tunnel" the person even if they've clearly no intention to flee. Lastly, it synergizes with Unbreakable, so you will always either recover or get picked up and DS, which is a fairly strong effect. Even after you use Unbreakable, Decisive Strike is still active for another 30 seconds.
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And if you hook and camper at egc is a kill for free also
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I am a bit confused. Are you criticizing me for not asking to nerf DS, but actually saying from the killers perspective that its fine, or are you just musing and throwing your own thoughts into the room?
I literally said that DS strength in the EGC is the only somewhat valid corner case where it might be a bit too strong, and I still think its ok, because why not?
And DS has been literally in the shrine just a month ago, on January the 19th, so it was widely available to most of the community and new players all across the board. But I also said that getting hit by DS might incentivise the killer to go for a full tunnel kill, because there is now literally nothing protecting the player anymore.
Todays strong healing and gen-speed meta has a lot of killers with their back against the wall. If you play nice and fair you get often no chance to generate any kind of pressure, and one of the last ways to do so IS tunneling. Not only is a 3v1 often needed to get some breathing room, starting to tunneling one player out also often leads to overtly altruistic play of others and with some luck you will have two survivors trying to bodyblock and protect their mate on death hook, instead of doing gens.
Its a sad reality, but it can't be changed at the moment. And on the same note, if BHVR takes away camping and tunneling from the killers, many will have literally NOTHING left to play around strong survivors and multiple second chance perks. This situation must be handled with care and and BHVR shouldn't use the stick, in this case, but the carrot, not punishing killers for camping and tunneling, but giving them some baseline rewards for not doing so.
I think a system like Devour Hope, but with heal and gen repair speed debuffs could do the trick. The killer gets more stacks of this baseline ability each time he runs away from a hooked survivor, and on the other hand all survivors get a chance to actually play the game.
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Tunneling-off-hook-till-dead is of course something most killers are going to do. You complain about gen speeds on the Killer side, yet you have 22 different gen slowdown perks. 4 of them I would consider as trash, but 18 are definitely usable. That's 3080 different combination of ways you can slow down gens. Not to mention that Hex: Ruin can literally win games by itself.
However as survivor, there is only 1 single perk that counters tunneling-off-hook-till-dead. If you don't have the perk, you can't even play the game if a killer decides to tunnel-off-hook-till-dead. I don't think that tunneling-off-hook-till-dead should be removed, but my god, give survivors some way to counter it base-kit. Not something that is behind a pay-wall and is only available if you happen to take the perk.
As a killer, I can take a survivor to a dead zone, wait for another survivor to unhook them, then immediately down them again because the survivor is absolutely defenseless, unless they are running DS. It's not even a game at that point.
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Sorry for being a bit negative here, but this just sounds as theory-crafting of a person who never played the game. Not accusing you of that, but your whole comment reaks of just that: theory-crafting. You absolutely fail to mention the other perks you got at your disposal, if borrowed time, which is a staple in many survivors builds, or kindred, which many SWFs disregard as a soloQ perk. But I bet you haven't used in a very long time, kindred provides nearly flawless info on the killer, when he leaves the hook, in which direction, or where exactly he is at a given loop around a hook. But of course, kindred isn't as fancy as a lot of other stuff.
I don't consider DS a no-brainer or auto include perk. Its another second chance, and one that helps a lot when the killer actually tries to tunnel you, but I would much more run kindred and/or BT.
But I am STILL confused why we are both duking it out. Did I say anywhere that DS needs to be nerfed? And if offing a survivor in a dead zone was that easy, you would see a lot more high MMR games that ended with a 2k then a 4E.
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I complain when its convenient
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I'm fine with DS ever since it was changed to activate after being unhooked.
I do recognize it being a free escape during endgame. But even that I don't have an issue with it.
edit: btw, isn't DS dead?🤣 At least that was what people were shouting when it was last changed.
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Not a lot of people ran it until like a week later lol.
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Your reasoning is completely backward. After eating a DS, you're not tunneling because DS forces you, but because it can't stop you anymore.
Even more so because in your story you're implicitly playing around DS by looking for other survivors and/or slugging the rescued survivor.
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They complain about the DS/BT loadout because it's the most flowchart-ass way you could possibly play this game, not because DS is OP.
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what kind of logic is that? Playing around DS is basicly not tunneling? xD My point is I am more likely playing around BT rather then DS, in my case when someone runs into me this has nothing to do with borrow or ppl trying to tank, its the person running into me for whatever reason.
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ye ppl like to shout out random stuff, I personally still see 1-2 ds every game, which I again dont mind, I even welcome it. It reduces the chance of UB or other much more impactful perks.
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Only if you run NOED. It's very easy to save with a healthy survivor and borrowed time/dead hard.
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Bingo.
Some composition of DS/DH/BT/UB/SC for an easy 70% of survs I go against. It's like mindless programming. Of those, only DH is OP/busted, but it's just so boring to go against the same builds ad nauseum. The Surv perk meta is stale as hell.
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I don’t really care about DS that much any more because of the nerf they added that you can’t do any objectives while it’s active. Before survivors could do gens in your face and you couldn’t do a thing and I would get so frustrating some times. But now if a survivor wants to do an objective then they lose their DS which is okay and if a survivor wants to keep their DS that means they are doing literally nothing for a whole minute, no gens no healing no unhooking, nothing. Which can be very beneficial to the killer, so when you think about it DS is a very balanced perk (sometimes, not all the time).
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BT isn't at anyone's disposal. You have to hope someone else has it, and even then, it is even weaker as an anti-tunnel perk than DS. BT's only strength is body blocking (which should be eliminated) and anti-camping, not anti-tunnelling.
And I have no idea how you came up with Kindred being anti-tunnelling. How does knowing where the killer is when he's not tunnelling help you when he -is- tunnelling?
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Yeah, zero complaints about DS from me anymore.
I still assume everyone is running it (and I might down and pick up after an unhook just to get it out of the way), but I feel no annoyance towards it at all.
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DS is a bully perk. Not many killers like to be bullied.
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Thats the thing: nearly everything that protects new and innocent players can be used to protect the bullies even more, so that they can bully some poor killer extra hard without fear of any repercussions. Its just the nature of things :<
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Old DS definitely was a bully perk.
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